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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Coastward
Smash Lord
dat utilt.....
![Эикельманн [РУС]](/data/avatars/l/153/153661.jpg?1415225120){kind=avatar}
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
good **** to both you and brandan, jason. i had no idea you were both in central california.
i'm gong to that tournament linguini is attending this weekend. hopefully we can get some videos up of our florida ganondorf gameplay up.
also @tm i watched the jiggs set since it seems everyone else covered your other match. that guy was awful and if you just tweak your matchup knowledge a bit you'll never lose to him again. you gotta understand that when a puff is camping like that and playing hard to get, you have to return the favour. make him come to you. when you're up in percentage, or even stock, just wait. control the stage and wait it out like he was doing on the ledge.
a lot of jiggs like to shield a lot. this one was no different. since ganondorf's grab can't do **** vs non-shield puff, you're going to be looking for grab opportunities generally when they're shielding near you. empty hop to grab works wonders, but you need to be fast.
remember your basics. it's really overused, but matchup fundamentals are key here because that's what this matchup comes down to. you have to play safe in this matchup, and so does jiggs. don't do anything too dumb.
i try to take advantage of how long it takes puff to get to the top platform when i'm holding my advantage. treat it similar to peach. they both seem to have a bit of trouble reaching you. just don't get hit by uair because that's really all they can come at you with.
i'm gong to that tournament linguini is attending this weekend. hopefully we can get some videos up of our florida ganondorf gameplay up.
also @tm i watched the jiggs set since it seems everyone else covered your other match. that guy was awful and if you just tweak your matchup knowledge a bit you'll never lose to him again. you gotta understand that when a puff is camping like that and playing hard to get, you have to return the favour. make him come to you. when you're up in percentage, or even stock, just wait. control the stage and wait it out like he was doing on the ledge.
a lot of jiggs like to shield a lot. this one was no different. since ganondorf's grab can't do **** vs non-shield puff, you're going to be looking for grab opportunities generally when they're shielding near you. empty hop to grab works wonders, but you need to be fast.
remember your basics. it's really overused, but matchup fundamentals are key here because that's what this matchup comes down to. you have to play safe in this matchup, and so does jiggs. don't do anything too dumb.
i try to take advantage of how long it takes puff to get to the top platform when i'm holding my advantage. treat it similar to peach. they both seem to have a bit of trouble reaching you. just don't get hit by uair because that's really all they can come at you with.
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Coastward
Smash Lord
poop, might not be able to make CEO. moneys looking super tight, ill be able to get a better estimate in late may.
iRanch
Smash Cadet
noooooooooooooooooo
Nooooo you gotta represent Toronto's Ganons!
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
And i might not be able to do mlg in may. Money is tight as well. Sorry st catharines
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
so i've been doing a bunch of practicing lately. i'm discovering a few things:
1. it won't be long until i can hax dash with ganondorf consistently enough to use in my matches. i'm going to use this to edgeguard in just about every situation. it's honestly an awesome way to cover every option.
2. i can shield drop upon command. the key is shield dropping with an aerial, namely uair. i've been working on that for about two weeks now. i keep track of how many times i do it in a row. my average is about 8 right now. the most i've gotten is 35. a weird thing i've noticed is that when i sd uair people behind me, i'm more incline to mess up because my brain has made an association with only doing it to something in front of me, as i practiced it that way for many hours. it's weird, i feel like i'm improving at it, but i get worse some days. for instance, yesterday i performed worse than the day before, but today i performed significantly better than both days. i can quantify this because i keep track of my practice of all tech in a notebook in which i collect data on my practice sessions. i also write matchup notes for every hard matchup ganon has. this includes combos, moves to use in neutral, edgeguards, etc.
3. it's the silliest thing, but lh uairs are giving me trouble. i did a re-haul of all ganon tech and surprisingly found through objective tests that i was extremely weak in this area. i'm practicing it again, but for some reason it's taking longer to master, or at least get down to the point i can do it without thinking, than i would've thought. one weird thing that happens, usually when i do it on the right side of the stage is that i fair instead of uair because i press -->, --<+x, c-stick up. going from x to the c-stick so quickly often means i'll hit the c-stick diagonally upward just beyond the threshold of uair and it will become a fair, meaning i die lol.
4. i use the c stick to do aerials and a standard grip. sh bair dj whatever is easy enough if i move really fast. but sh uair dj whatever is proving to be really trick with the c stick and standard grip. i basically have to hit x and twitch my thumb up on the c stick in an unnaturally fast amount of time. i found doing this with a+control stick to do my uair made it very easy. my problem is i think it might be kind of weird switching between doing c stick aerials and a button aerials, even if i'm only going to use the a button for sh uair dj aerials. i could claw, but the reason i don't is that my current controller's y button is ****ed up. i don't really care because i use x with my standard grip, but i would most definitely have to use y if i used a claw. what do you guys think about this dilemma?
1. it won't be long until i can hax dash with ganondorf consistently enough to use in my matches. i'm going to use this to edgeguard in just about every situation. it's honestly an awesome way to cover every option.
2. i can shield drop upon command. the key is shield dropping with an aerial, namely uair. i've been working on that for about two weeks now. i keep track of how many times i do it in a row. my average is about 8 right now. the most i've gotten is 35. a weird thing i've noticed is that when i sd uair people behind me, i'm more incline to mess up because my brain has made an association with only doing it to something in front of me, as i practiced it that way for many hours. it's weird, i feel like i'm improving at it, but i get worse some days. for instance, yesterday i performed worse than the day before, but today i performed significantly better than both days. i can quantify this because i keep track of my practice of all tech in a notebook in which i collect data on my practice sessions. i also write matchup notes for every hard matchup ganon has. this includes combos, moves to use in neutral, edgeguards, etc.
3. it's the silliest thing, but lh uairs are giving me trouble. i did a re-haul of all ganon tech and surprisingly found through objective tests that i was extremely weak in this area. i'm practicing it again, but for some reason it's taking longer to master, or at least get down to the point i can do it without thinking, than i would've thought. one weird thing that happens, usually when i do it on the right side of the stage is that i fair instead of uair because i press -->, --<+x, c-stick up. going from x to the c-stick so quickly often means i'll hit the c-stick diagonally upward just beyond the threshold of uair and it will become a fair, meaning i die lol.
4. i use the c stick to do aerials and a standard grip. sh bair dj whatever is easy enough if i move really fast. but sh uair dj whatever is proving to be really trick with the c stick and standard grip. i basically have to hit x and twitch my thumb up on the c stick in an unnaturally fast amount of time. i found doing this with a+control stick to do my uair made it very easy. my problem is i think it might be kind of weird switching between doing c stick aerials and a button aerials, even if i'm only going to use the a button for sh uair dj aerials. i could claw, but the reason i don't is that my current controller's y button is ****ed up. i don't really care because i use x with my standard grip, but i would most definitely have to use y if i used a claw. what do you guys think about this dilemma?
VegiLohrd
Smash Apprentice
As a newbie, take my advice with a grain of salt, but to me it seems like unless pulling off sh bair dj easily would elevate your game to a new level, it might not be worth learning a completely new grip style. But I don't think you can really know for sure until you try out claw on a non jank controller.
Coastward
Smash Lord
im glad to see that others are picking up shield dropping, that **** is S tier.
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
First off, tipman has been doing the "hax" dash since like 2005 lol.
Second, it really is a great tool and I'm a huge fan, but it can be risky- check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCOO9CsawFM
Somewhere early in the third match (don't feel like rewatching it again), I used it to catch him off guard... Granted, if I had thrown out a second uair, it would have hit, but I still ended up losing a stock. Use it wisely.
I actually had a lot of trouble with ledge hop uairs as well, it's the weirdest thing. Here, try this: do the input as if you were trying to waveland. Like flick the c stick up instead of pushing R to waveland. The timing will be off and the uair will come out super late, but it's a good way to get started on it and you can work on getting the timing better as you go on.
Shield dropping is hard as ****.
Second, it really is a great tool and I'm a huge fan, but it can be risky- check this out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCOO9CsawFM
Somewhere early in the third match (don't feel like rewatching it again), I used it to catch him off guard... Granted, if I had thrown out a second uair, it would have hit, but I still ended up losing a stock. Use it wisely.
I actually had a lot of trouble with ledge hop uairs as well, it's the weirdest thing. Here, try this: do the input as if you were trying to waveland. Like flick the c stick up instead of pushing R to waveland. The timing will be off and the uair will come out super late, but it's a good way to get started on it and you can work on getting the timing better as you go on.
Shield dropping is hard as ****.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I use standard grip to hold my controller, but I use Y to jump, making instant uairs and dairs from a jump much easier to do cause I can quickly flick my thumb from the Y button to the c-stick. For ledge-hopping, I hit down on the c-stick to get off the ledge, up on the control stick to jump and hold in the direction of the stage, and then just hit up on the c-stick. You'll be surprised how easy it is when you do it like that, it's really easy for me.
I've been doing shield-dropping at the beginning of matches to drop through the platform at the beginning quickly, but I don't do it much at all during the match. I also never spot-dodge. I still haven't put that into my arsenal of defensive options.
Also, don't down-b so close to the stage to recover, it's a free edgeguard/hit for your opponent waiting on the edge.
EDIT: Also, if Marth does a laggy move on your shield, instead of jumping out of shield and trying to fair, you should wavedash out of shield into a grab, which I'm sure is much faster and I should probably practice.
Personally, I don't want to fight Marth on Yoshi's cause his stage control outdoes Ganon's. I'd much rather fight Marth on FD or some other stage where I can have more room to breathe/control. So if Marth wins and bands Dreamland, I'll probably go to Battlefield, FoD, or even PS. If I win, I'll just ban Yoshi's and probably get taken to FD, which I'm comfortable with.
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Renth
Smash Hero
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Renth, tell me I didn't miss him. All I see is ****ty Project M
Fack
Fack
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
should be melee in like 45 mins
Coastward
Smash Lord
i wish there were more ganons in the WC, east coast is best coast. coast is best coast.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Went out to Green missile, and got 13th and Tipman got 7th, he was pulling **** that I haven't seen before. lol Ian holding it down hard in our Ganon ditto sets. I ended up losing to Hungrybox and Ghatzu, but held it down hard for G-mains. Now that I got my gamecube back, I can work on my combos now and get my execution more polished.
Renth
Smash Hero
Tipman is legend for a reason. I was watching the stream, It's time to revive Ganondorf my friend
Renth
Smash Hero
The adventures of Renth and Uber ice. 4 brand new friendlies!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVUJvvfI4ek&list=PLRZgx2SiH09u3BRgroYwFJnv12ILGlMKN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVUJvvfI4ek&list=PLRZgx2SiH09u3BRgroYwFJnv12ILGlMKN
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X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
so my shield drop practice has finally started to pay off. i am now good enough to do them about half the time i attempt to in friendlies. i'm talking about shield drop uairs, fyi. normal shield drops i can do without thinking. what i'll do is let someone attack my shield with an aerial or something while i'm on a platform and immediately shield drop uair or bair after the hitbox is gone. with a little more practice, i'll be able to do it every time without thinking.
my rld training is progressing, but slow. i can do it fully invincible about 10 times in a row at the max, but that's only on the right side. i suck on the left side for some reason.
i'm also going to train myself in the claw once i get a new controller. i've decided that it's literally impossible for me to be able to uair twice off a short hop unless i switch grips. and honestly i think that it will allow me to do many things faster in general. with my current grip, i sometimes mess up fh dair to jump aerial or waveland and that's something i shouldn't have to worry about.
my rld training is progressing, but slow. i can do it fully invincible about 10 times in a row at the max, but that's only on the right side. i suck on the left side for some reason.
i'm also going to train myself in the claw once i get a new controller. i've decided that it's literally impossible for me to be able to uair twice off a short hop unless i switch grips. and honestly i think that it will allow me to do many things faster in general. with my current grip, i sometimes mess up fh dair to jump aerial or waveland and that's something i shouldn't have to worry about.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I'm happy about Tipman's and RockCrock's performance, but I didn't even get to see Linguini play, what a shame.
I want to focus more on playing Ganon the way he is meant to be played. I still have this dumb habit of me approaching with fair @_@
I want to focus more on playing Ganon the way he is meant to be played. I still have this dumb habit of me approaching with fair @_@
Renth
Smash Hero
I enjoyed BSing with you on the stream ^_^
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
http://www.twitch.tv/smashstudios/b/523482305?t=2h5m3s
tournament set for those that missed it. check it out. this was my only streamed set =[
tournament set for those that missed it. check it out. this was my only streamed set =[
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
All we did was talk about my t-shirt designs for a while hahaha.
-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
Nice work with bowser dude. Edgeguarding with ganon was a little weak that game but i liked your ganon too. You got him next time!
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
yeah i was ****in up super hard. oh well.
iRanch
Smash Cadet
Hey guys. We're streaming right now at twitch.tv/ranchaholic
Come check us out!
Eikelmann, DAP and I.
Come check us out!
Eikelmann, DAP and I.
Bizzarro Flame
Smash Lord
Dang Ian, you gotta stop getting nervous near the end of a match haha. you could've had the last stock with Ganon.
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
it wasn't nerves. i haven't gotten nervous in a while. just choked a bit.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
I never get nervous because I always take one shot of something right before my sets start. Something that happens often, though is that I get fatigued from playing so many friendlies and just being at the venue for so long that by the time my sets come along, I'm too mentally exhausted to perform well. That's why I prefer small locals that start quickly and don't go on all day/night. Maybe I just shouldn't play as many friendlies at the longer tournaments?
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
You only really need like an hour to "warm-up."
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Be that as it may, the bigger tournaments I go to I tend to arrive mad early (usually this is outside of my control as I carpool with homies) and I just play friendlies for awhile just because they're fun. But I might just chill out in the future for awhile when I first arrive to tournaments. Buy food instead, smoke, listen to music, talk to people and wait to play until like an hour before pools or the bracket starts.
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
that's probably smart. just kind of relax the mind, no stress. when i go, i am definitely going to bring headphones!
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
what's the hax dash again? is it the wavedash on to ledge o r is it the wavedash offf of ledge frome hanging on the ledge? As for the control stick stuff., i alternate. I almost always use the dair with c stick so i can control the fast fall. and up airs off stage i use c stick. dunno if this helps?
Renth
Smash Hero
It's nothing more than a reverse ledge dash from the ledge back to the ledge, people have been doing it for years hax just does it a lot so it's called hax dash
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
ahh, sorry, i forgot what it was.
cptjiggles69
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2012
- Messages
- 294
also look out guys. I have my passport ..muahahahahah
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
I've said it before. Tipman has been doing the hax dash since '04, read his old ass guide lol. Hax is just a badass
Эикельманн [РУС]
Banned via Administration
the ganondorf community needs more good players.
we really need to step it up this year.
we really need to step it up this year.
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RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
Implementing short-hop wavelands into my gameplay is gonna be a bit, but I'm sure it'll be worth it. I feel like my tech skill has gotten pretty good and now I just need to work on playing a retreating Ganon. So far, from several of the matches that I've played on netplay, the retreating tactic is working pretty well.