How To Play Olimar

[The |Egg| Sniper]

Yes, this is actually the exact case I am addressing. I DO see this, almost every match I see Olimar in. Even in Teams. People simply stay away from him, it is not in their interest (winning) to attack him, since he cannot be properly defended against. And you're exactly right, it IS absurd. That is why he "breaks" gameplay, this doesn't happen in any other case. Unless the opponent has a projectile, like Pit. Then they spam it. But there is no such combat occuring at all.

Did it ever occur to you that there are more Olimar than the ones that you see for yourself? Especially if you're going off Wifi bull****....figured I'd cover that base.

As I said before, Brawl is barely a fighting game. It's basically its own genre. Characters have different ways of getting the main point across (knocking people out of the arena, not reducing their life to 0).

 

[scalpel]

Gazelle, I'll give you a real reply later tonight. I'll will note two things though. I never deemed olimar impossible to approach, nor did I demand anything. Where are you quoting me from...? Upon using the Find function, there was no use of either word this entire topic before your post. Also, in those videos, the Olimar did things other than shield and throw pikmin. These things include jumping, being aggressive, and trying to find a situational advantage. None of these things are the broken aspects that I am addressing. Perhaps if you find a video of Olimar camping shield and spamming pikmin when not shielding it will change my opinion.

I'll do my best to get a decent video within the next few days as well. It's ok everyone, we're almost done here. Keep 'em coming.

See that's all well and good, but you're assuming that Olimar will give you more angles to approach from. If you do the 2nd part of my amazing guide, "shield a lot", that means you're on the ground. This gives you very few angles of approach, namely a 90 degree span, the arc going from the stage to directly above olimar. You can't approach him from below, so that cuts off 180, and you can't approach him from behind, as he can simply turn around. Of course, in the 90 degrees you have left, 89 are in the air and 1 is on the ground. The first 89 can be shielded and consequently grabbed, and the ground approaches start that lovely guessing game that I've been addressing.

Olimar has attacks that cannot be clearly determined. Since you cannot determine how to defend his attacks, it is better to not defend against them, but instead avoid them completely. This heavily encourages camping, "breaking" the fighting aspect of the game. If you disagree with me, please give valid, empirical reasoning behind your thoughts.

Sorry for the confusion - I didn't mean to say that you outright stated that it is impossible to approach Olimar. However, in your previous posts that I quoted, you have been implying that the odds are against opponents who are approaching Olimar, and since opponents are so discouraged from Olimar's unorthdox game play, it behooves opponents to stay away from Olimar and avoid being hit, at all. Is this not correct? You believe that it is better for opponents to not approach Olimar, even if they don't have projectile attacks?

Well that is the root of this entire discussion. I just can't help but disagree wholeheartedly on your statement, because, I'm sorry, but it is so ridiculous. Any opponent who refuses to approach Olimar, on the basis that he is broken and unpredictable, deserves to lose the match. Any opponent who refuses to explore the new SSBB game mechanics to truly understand how to play SSBB competitively, deserves to lose in a competitive match.

Understanding the new game mechanics of SSBB is not only beneficial to defeat an Olimar, but it is also beneficial versus any other character. Fighting Olimar doesn't "force you to play HIS game", like what someone else stated in this topic. Fighting Olimar should encourage you to learn how to adapt to SSBB, let go of Melee, and ultimately make yourself a better player, overall.

Fighting Olimar is not a guessing game, unless you make it one yourself. Pressuring Olimar is not a guessing game. Forcing Olimar to do certain things is not a guessing game - it's manipulation. Approaching Olimar in an unusual way is not a guessing game, either - using the new SSBB mechanics to your advantage is what it is. Just watch the videos that I posted, and you can see that fighting Olimar is not, and should not, be a guessing game in a competitive perspective.

I understand that the videos are not perfect examples of what I'm trying to say. However, at least I am making an effort to provide empirical evidence that can be observed. Olimar is not broken in Brawl, but he may seem broken if you fight him with a Melee mentality.

 

[The |Egg| Sniper]

I'll do my best to get a decent video within the next few days as well. It's ok everyone, we're almost done here. Keep 'em coming.

Quotes like that make me wonder why I even post. It explains everything to me. Then again, it helps me run into people like....

Sorry for the confusion - I didn't mean to say that you outright stated that it is impossible to approach Olimar. However, in your previous posts that I quoted, you have been implying that the odds are against opponents who are approaching Olimar, and since opponents are so discouraged from Olimar's unorthdox game play, it behooves opponents to stay away from Olimar and avoid being hit, at all. Is this not correct? You believe that it is better for opponents to not approach Olimar, even if they don't have projectile attacks?

Well that is the root of this entire discussion. I just can't help but disagree wholeheartedly on your statement, because, I'm sorry, but it is so ridiculous. Any opponent who refuses to approach Olimar, on the basis that he is broken and unpredictable, deserves to lose the match. Any opponent who refuses to explore the new SSBB game mechanics to truly understand how to play SSBB competitively, deserves to lose in a competitive match.

Understanding the new game mechanics of SSBB is not only beneficial to defeat an Olimar, but it is also beneficial versus any other character. Fighting Olimar doesn't "force you to play HIS game", like what someone else stated in this topic. Fighting Olimar should encourage you to learn how to adapt to SSBB, let go of Melee, and ultimately make yourself a better player, overall.

Fighting Olimar is not a guessing game, unless you make it one yourself. Pressuring Olimar is not a guessing game. Forcing Olimar to do certain things is not a guessing game - it's manipulation. Approaching Olimar in an unusual way is not a guessing game, either - using the new SSBB mechanics to your advantage is what it is. Just watch the videos that I posted, and you can see that fighting Olimar is not, and should not, be a guessing game in a competitive perspective.

I understand that the videos are not perfect examples of what I'm trying to say. However, at least I am making an effort to provide empirical evidence that can be observed. Olimar is not broken in Brawl, but he may seem broken if you fight him with a Melee mentality.

....this guy. And I agree with pretty much all of these statements completely. Mainly because I'm guessing you're playing rather unskilled Olimars and are getting irritated by the playstyle. There are many ways to play characters, and Brawl is the game to show it. Melee, you had to play the character THE RIGHT way or you wouldn't win. There are multiple approaches to Olimar, and it really isn't as complex as it has gotten in this thread, and I would assume it would be less complex against these particular Olimars you're irritated at. Not to mention, shield diminishing has been accelerated in Brawl, making them near useless after a full second of being out. So the "shield a lot" terminology of his strategy seems near rediculous. It's a new game in a sense, it's time to learn a new way of fighting in a similar sense.

 

[Rhyme]

^^^ Seriously, to everyone in this thread, I recommend that you go and find out for yourself who the frick Mow is rather than addressing him as if he's playing his beer buddies. Here we have a classic case of this guy could teach you more than you thought there was to know about Smash, as my friend once said to me.

I didn't say olimar was unbalanced or too good, I said he was broken. He breaks normal gameplay, and his play does not induce fighting in a fighting game.

I did not address his weaknesses or his tier ranking. Of course he has weaknesses, that is not the point of my topic. The point is that the character is dumb. Any character where half of the moves cannot be determined as defined hitboxes or different from other attacks is dumb.

Will someone please address the topic at hand? I'll make it very clear for you:

Olimar has attacks that cannot be clearly determined. Since you cannot determine how to defend his attacks, it is better to not defend against them, but instead avoid them completely. This heavily encourages camping, "breaking" the fighting aspect of the game. If you disagree with me, please give valid, empirical reasoning behind your thoughts.

This does not involve Olimar's weaknesses or strengths as a character, nor does it address his balance against other characters. This topic does not address my sexuality, vocabulary, mentality, or my ability as a player.

Blatant and obvious, I love it. Lesse...Olimar does indeed discourage people from both defending and approaching him, and that's definitely a no-no in the game of Smash. While other characters, such as ROB and Pit, can use their projectiles in a similar way, I will agree with you that it's Olimar's camoflouging aspect to his attacks that makes him "broken". Players could, over time, learn how to approach him, but Olimar's ability to spam ranged attacks can be a bit much.

Still, when playing against Olimar you're doing just what you would have to do against Melee Marth--you're camping his tipper range to the best of your ability and waiting for him to make the first move so you can approach (which is nearly impossible for some characters). Olimar isn't the first character to bend gameplay in his favor (Pit/Marth); the first who could attack and retreat at the same time (Lucas/ROB); the first who could spam ranged and low-lag attacks up the wazoo (TL/Marth again).

On a different note, I seem to remember you refusing to train Marth players in Melee. >.>

Olimar is a fundamentally broken character on every level, for the pure fact that the way the game forces you to play him defies the playstyle of Super Smash Bros as a game altogether. Do not mistake what I say for something else: he is not broken in the sense of being "Overpowered," because he isn't. He's powerful, yes, but not yet approaching the point of overpowered that characters like Lucas and Metaknight ride so easily. I would place him probably in the top half of the game's characters, but no higher without a lot more consideration of his countermatches.

EDIT

What were you smoking last time you played Melee?

The topic was NOT to address whether or not Olimar was OPed, but whether or not he is "broken". Lol, I'm already getting aggrevated reading these responses so I can only imagine how Mow feels. ._o

I would appreciate if you would not insult me rather than debating a point or asking about my gaming history, thank you very much.

so, you're saying that there's a huge difference between olimar projecting the pikmin, and the pikmin projecting themselves. I have to disagree.

I am not insinuating that Olimar changes the mechanics of gameplay outside of his own matches. But in his own matches, he definitely does. It is not feasible to deny the fact that Olimar is the only character in the game that discourages attacking.

Of course, in the 90 degrees you have left, 89 are in the air and 1 is on the ground. The first 89 can be shielded and consequently grabbed, and the ground approaches start that lovely guessing game that I've been addressing.

This pikmin projection argument is too funny. I can't believe you guys are dragging this out still. -_-

With the increased aerial mobility of Brawl, most characters are able to DI so that they land behind a shielding Olimar after doing their aerial, provided that the player is able to react that quickly. This opens up quite a number of said degrees for play. Even if you cannot react quite that fast, most characters are able to attack the shield with an aerial and then DI safely out of range of Olimar's grab, where they could easily shield to block a pending Fsmash...and taking off the shield has much less lag this game so it's not necessarily a bad idea to shield even if you didn't need to. Using a combination of these techniques, one could whittle down Olimar's shield to a point where shielding would be a bad idea.

I would also like to add that while this does require a large amount of persistance and patience, so does successufully spacing and approaching several of the other fighters. Your point was that Olimar alone has a different, non-smash-type gameplay about him...when perhaps his is instead to a greater extent than others'.

 

[Anytime_Minutes]

if anyone knows anything about my smash career, it is how much I hate melee marth. The comparison between olimar and melee marth only serves to fuel ego in debating it so. pikmin and marth's swords are both projectiles, for the record.

and yamsing is totally overpowered. **** yamsing.

dumb question, whats yamsing?

 

[Rhyme]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that yamsing is a player, but I could easily be wrong.

 

[Blu chu]

hey mow, you know we need to have some matches on brawl.

 

[OlimarFan]

lol not necessarily (love UmbreonMow's sig)

 

[doyoung2win]

i love mows sig too <333 Im in it :D

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

Mow's sigs are always great At least as of recently...

 

[Keitaro]

lol, Mow really is too good!

 

[Pyronic_Star]

@UmbreonMow
hahhahaha, this is rather intriguing.... the fact that no one really targeted your point which was the animations, granted some did skim over it, no one fully answered it.
ok, i believe the 3 moves we are speaking about is the grab, f-smash, and pikmin throw. they have noticeably different animations to me, although i main olimar so it is indeed easier for me to recognize them, however...

pikmin throw, the pikmin goes head first but in a arch, they go at an angle away from the ground until the peak of their approach, opposed to going parallel with the ground

f-smash, the pikmin once again go head first, but they are parallel with the ground until the get to the end of their range

grab has the largest difference, the pikmin is standing vertically, it runs over to you

to some it up, the latch is bad, but it doesn't kill... and the white is really the main one to worry about, but basically, the grab and f-smash have noticeable differences and are the two differences you need to know because of the shield and dodge issue.

o yea, wht is this yamsing thing? lol

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

The animations look way more similar than any other characters in the game. Look at Peach, for example. Her side b has hearts, her fsmash has a weapon, and her grab has just her hand going out. But with Olimar, those 3 moves just look like a pikmin being thrown to someone who doesn't main him or play against him often.

 

[bdance23]

...just gtfo

 

[shrinkray21]

omg - these types of threads are so stupid...

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

Troll... or Naivety?

 

[pesticide]

mow is completely true

all of olimars attacks involve throwing pikmin xD

 

[WhoseReality?]

after reading through all of this, here's what I take from it:

1. What is the result of Olimar's undifferentiated moveset? While the purpose of it is to compensate for his weak recovery, the result is to destabilize an opponent's ability to defend. This is another aspect of his attack that is inherent in the character himself, like Lucario's increasing strength.

1. Does Olimar's playstyle discourage fighting? Olimar, the little man, is incapable of getting a KO. The Pikmin, when thrown, also cannot garner a KO. It was more appropriate to refer to this character as Pikmin and Olimar because it is their synergy that knocks other characters off the screen. To win the game they must attack together. They must attack to win and that supersedes moves that encourage camping.

 

[SLAYERCoLdKiLr]

Olimar has a winning strategy and a risky strategy, one breaks gameplay and the other is just a low tier character with bad moveset going up against higher tiers. I totally agree with Mow in it breaking gameplay.

Olimars moveset are projectiles
Olimars moveset are all the ****ing same, and I dont wanna hear "Na uh....his fair is....his bair is...". They are all based on a camping mindset and keeping space between your opponent.

Olimar has obvious weaknesses, but that doesnt help it being a camp only character.

Hes gay, and I ****ing hate brawl sometimes for characters like this.

 

[geekd]

Actually I feel as though most competent olimars are moving farther and farther away from the pikmin-chuking, camping style. Any good opponent has no problem bating them right off and continuing to approach. Their only power is to annoy and distract, and it is only your own fault if you let them get the better of you.

As for all of the moves looking the same, I think my friends had the same problem for the first two or three days that brawl was out. They have subtle differences though which I have no problem distinguishing, nor does anyone I regularly play.

This thread is about 4 months old, and anyone who knows anything about olimar knows this argument is laughably naive and outdated. Get some more practice vs olimar and you will know what I'm talking about.

 

[Kyas]

 

[Snail]

Um, this got bumped why?

Let this die please >_>

 

[Barge]

[Olimar has a winning strategy and a risky strategy, one breaks gameplay and the other is just a low tier character with bad moveset going up against higher tiers. I totally agree with Mow in it breaking gameplay.

Olimars moveset are projectiles
Olimars moveset are all the ****ing same, and I dont wanna hear "Na uh....his fair is....his bair is...". They are all based on a camping mindset and keeping space between your opponent.

Olimar has obvious weaknesses, but that doesnt help it being a camp only character.

Hes gay, and I ****ing hate brawl sometimes for characters like this.

gj on bumping this ******** thread with a comment no one cares about

fail topic is fail

 

[BlackWaltzX]

I never once was a camper with Olimar.
I feel bad camping. I suck with Olimar. All I do is throw pikmin withing Bowser grab range.


EDIT)) Will be bumping this thread every day it's not on the front page.

 

[Deleted member]

THROW PIKMIN SHIELD A LOT

I'm just bumping this for the sake of being a douche face.

 

[Kyas]

will someone please lock this useless thread