How To Help Train a Friend?

[Lorcl678]

I have a friend (his username is pfeeo) who uses Link and is trying to get better in Smash. The problem is that I don't know how to efficiently train him. How I usually train him is to just go into an infinite time mode and fight him using other characters besides my main (Falco) because my Falco is a little too tough on him; while we fight, I usually tell him what he should and what he shouldn't do. After around almost half a year, I've seen little or almost no improvements in his Link. How should I efficiently train him? Or to be more specific, should I use my Falco all the time against him so he could adapt fighting a Falco? Should I use his own character (Link) so he could learn what kind of strategies Link can create? Responses appreciated.

If you're too lazy to search a video of my friend, here's a link http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATGeIvjJgAs

This video was 5 months ago, so my Falco got better. Too bad I can't say the same for my friend...

 

[vericz]

Does he watch combo vids?? Does he play any other characters?
Just tell him to watch vid so he can get ideas on how to get started. You do the right thing telling him what he should have done and showing him tricks. Keep it, maybe it takes more time for him to learn.

Oh, i looked at the more from this user, who is the kid acting gangsta is that you or your friend. that was funny as hell.

 

[Uck]

Link is a very hard character to master it takes time experiance and thought.He has no hope in ever developing at his stage when your falco is so much more advance than he is.

You may give him advice but without experiance and space he wont grow as "Link".
Your Falco is to legit for him to handle.


1.He can change his main to learn the game faster then switch back to Link later.
2.Use Marth,Ganondorf and Fox.He will learn quicker because his Link wont be ran over like he did with your Falco yet still provide an effective challenge.
3. Playing other people around his skill level so he can gain some experiance could help.
4.He is going to have to train at home and lurk the boards to gain knowledge to quicken his progression.

To Train him you guys should practice advance techs together and theory.While in combat try to go easy on him but do that rarely.Do it by stock.

Tell him when your gonna go easy on him for a stock.So he doesnt feel like your hiding it.If he doesnt want you to go easy then dont.

Dont use Falco to train him its to much for him to process at his level to much pressure.
Does he know all the advance techs?

At his level he needs to train against the cpu level 1-3
all the time to learn the game faster hell learn theory on combos hitboxes invincibility frames edgegaurding techniques ect when he does this.

You should train him using Marth Fox and Ganondorf versus his Link.Maybe Ganondorf first because hes not has fast as the others.He can gain massive experiance with these two in just a few weeks and give him freedom to explore the different aspects of Link.

Just dont waveshine him to death.If you chaingrab do it so he knows what it feels like but in moderation.

You should also do 3-4 stock matches it gives him time to think between matches.

Teach him Shfflc Fair to grab and reverse grab.Teach him how to tech chase with Link against Fox.This will open his eyes up to different possibilities.

EDIT: Do this for a couple weeks and the see how he does against your falco.

 

[Bullet Bill]

In my opinion I think you should use Falco and NOT go easy on him. I'm being trained myself and if it wasn't for AIKO using his Fox which he is very good at, I don't think I would have learned so much in so little time

 

[Uck]

Normally I would agree with this but Falco is a different kind of beast.An advance Falco can imobolize a newbie Link to a point of non growth.

 

[Zodiac]

Link is terrible vs Falco on fd. I know(Signiture) its a pain because of his lasers never getting there. tell him to post in the Link specific boards, theres lots of helpful people there. Also tell him to watch som combo videos and analyze them

1. If he learns new techniques like wavedashing/ reverse grabbing, tell him not to force the tehcniqes to fit into his style, tell him instead to wait until he has the oppurtunity. Also tell him getting on platforms to avoid falco and then barraging him with projectiles and close combat works wonders.

 

[KevinM]

I agree demolishing him is not going to make him learn anything. Its a worthless tactic and all it will do is frustrate him. I like your idea of playing as link and showing him some moves, its what i did with my friends picachu. Sadly enough he can beat me in a pikachu ditto now.

 

[thesage]

Practice the Advanced Techs together, Show him the advanced how to play video, and take him to a tournament (just one will help him a lot). My friend was in a similar situtation (but it wasn't as bad as your friend's). Now he is almost at my skill level (which isn't that high btw).

Or he could just pick up sheik or peach. I became good with peach in a day.

 

[Lorcl678]

To vericz: Well I pretty much showed him all the Aniki videos that are available on Youtube and keep him updated if there is a new video. I recently taught him to play Falco and he's still in the process of Pillaring and Shffling. He knows how to SHL decently though he doesn't use it as much in a real match.

To Uck: I agree on the characters you chose, though I think Marth's range and Fox's speed is a little too much for him. Yes, he already knows the advanced techs for Link and usually doesn't know when to use it. He occasionally visits the boards, but we usually can't reach my other friend who's around his level in Smash. My other friend is pretty good at advanced techs but doesn't use mindgames at all really.

To Bullet Bill: I disagree. Four stocking his Link with my Falco each match doesn't help him at all. It actually makes him lose confidence.

To Zodiac: He knows the advanced techs already, just doesn't know when to use them. I also wouldn't want to use my Falco on him.

To thesage: I'm not too sure what you mean by practicing advanced techs together. We both know our advanced techs. I showed him lots of videos of Aniki and he tries to follow his way of playing. Both of us have never been in a tourny (school tournies don't count since no one knows advanced techs) and we'll probably won't join one for awhile. Neither of us know how to drive and our parents probably won't let us go to one.


A problem I noticed now is that my friend doesn't really go to my house nowadays. He used to go to my house once a week but now he has stopped his routine. He either busy spending time with his girlfriend or going somewhere else (like a party or an event unrelated to Smash). The last time we played together was about two months ago. Without a friend to train with, neither of us will get any better.

 

[Aiko]

does he even want to get better? If not then just leave it. You can't force him to play.

As bullet bill mentioned before, i am training him up, but what he doesn't realise is that i sort of sandbag on him. not to the extent that im just humiliating him or saying hes worth my time, but i do it to aid his growth. Its probably only visible to the person whos more aware of my capabilities but I did not constantly 4 stock him.

What I did was 4 stock him a few times, show how far behind he is. Teach him some advanced techs and go through them with him, show him how to do it and applications of it. i get him to watch some pro vids where such a technique is used and we take it to battle. I'll get him used to it, give him a few games to boost his confidence. After I'll go all out again, see if he can apply to a true game. It takes a while for him to adapt to the sudden change, but he catches on eventually and then I repeat it with another technique.

I've been doing that with Bullet Bill for about 7 weeks now and hes improved a hell of a lot since he first met me, where I could 4 stock him to no end, and now he can hold his own. The main problem with tutoring someone is that you get better yourself, and the student loses confidence again because he no longer knows where he stands. One day he'll feel like hes improving loads and then the next day you'll trounce him and he'll think he sucks again.

Thats about where I am with Bullet bill. He can now shffl about 50% of the time where as my techniques are completely natural to me and i've learnt to punish for missing minute things like missing l-cancels, not sweetspotting etc and I find myself consistantly 3 stocking him. I think this is where the hardest part is, as I dont want to destroy his confidence but I need to find a way to continue his growth.

Lorcl: try this method of training but remember some important things.
When you try to implement a new technique, you generally get worse as your focusing on something particular instead of good play. Try to make sure that your friend is aware of this so he doesn't get down. Also, try focusing on 1 or 2 techs at a time so he doesn't get overloaded. Start with easy stuff like short hopping or ledgehopping and work your way up to shffls etc.

bullet bill: you're definitely getting better, once you get your shffls near perfect, you find yourself catching up to me a lot quicker than you have been since i started training you. shffls leads to a higher game and you'll be surprised how much better you get within a short time once you can do them.

 

[fleapy]

I think you should not teh trasin him. HE is terh bad lol. Just let him watchn youm lpay an dhell lesrn lawawl

 

[Lorcl678]

What do you mean by Sandbagging? Specifically.

 

[ArcNatural]

Sandbagging is basically not doing your best or being your best character on purpose.

edit: And I would say to not use falco when trying to get someone to play. Trying to shffl and dashdance and learning basic mindgames is thrown horribly when playing a pillaring, shl Falco. It's not fun when you can barely move.

 

[Razgriz]

What do you mean by Sandbagging? Specifically.

How much does your friend love the game? I've got lots of friends who play Melee but are never going to get any better. They've hit a ceiling. Why? Everybody has a ceiling. It's set by your love of the game. That's why I convinced my friend to play as Fox instead of Falco, by kicking the ever loving crap out of his Falco, getting him to try Fox, and sandbagging the crap out him while pretending to be surprised and frustrated at his miraculous Fox skills. I did this because advanced techniques are not as crucial to a Fox as a Falco, and my friend is too apathetic to take the time to learn advanced techs. He's now a more formidable player because he has gotten used to Fox. Perhaps you should implement a similar strategy on your Link buddy if he's not gonna get any better.

Heh. The King might be able to give you some advice in this matter.

 

[Lorcl678]

Well, my friend doesn't love the game as much as I do, but he is still devoted. I guess he's been too busy for the past...two months?

 

[zelazon]

well, I have been training, and my friend who is a fox user, would could beat a shffler/wavedasher constantly beats me, oddly enough he doesnt do either techs, and ask me why dont I give up, and I tell him that I beat him so I could be all of the people I know, but now I'm at the point where I see character's lags, can wavedash, however I still need to learn how to shffl, but I learned that the wavedash is extremely useful since my friend doesnt know how to counter it.

 

[Uck]

I agree with Razgriz. Link just takes to much dedication to be good at anything.Your friend doesnt seem to be the type or doesnt realize the struggles Link needs to overcome.

Get him to change his main.He will have more fun and learn quicker.

 

[Clown Carcass]

That ***** needs to stop double jumping so much.

*nods*

 

[Uck]

That ***** needs to stop double jumping so much.

*nods*

You should be banned for being so clueless that you would use language like that on the smashboards.

 

[Luck-NYC/NJ]

tch thts a problem its really hard to teach someone who isnt really that serious about the game. ive run into this problem from personal experience. ask him how good he wants to get or if he jsut plays for fun. if he wants to get really good then use wat Uck told u.

LOL uck my name has ***** in it. *****'s only an offensive word depending on who said it and the context of its use.

 

[Platypus]

Use someone you suck at to get even foooting.

 

[nocsha]

you should go all out when fighting him. i learned fighting someone who was extremly good at fighting but eventually i became better than he is

 

[Wrath`]

Has he tryed other characters besides link?Just go and do stuff in trainig,it seems to help.Or 3 comp vs. him.

 

[Clown Carcass]

You should be banned for being so clueless that you would use language like that on the smashboards.

Haha. Apparently someone's been baptized late. 0.0

Anyways, I already got the warning from a mod. So, have fun dwindling on bad language. Great thing to worry about, that it is.

 

[Uck]

Dont make me become the language police!

 

[Giggidax]

ur friend must L-cancel more, SHFFL more! he also must learn when and when not to use projectiles! his nair game is very BAD! i understand hes still learning so dont take this criticism too harshly.

i saw ur friend try and fair u but it didnt hit but a nair would have. and he tried to aerial hookshot u which had no benefitial result. basically i think he has a bit to learn still but ill get back to u later gtrg

 

[edgeswipe21]

my freind has a pretty good link against my falco. One advice to link player, and anki is the master of this, use your projectiles...link isn't a good hand to hand fighter so keep a distance using projectiles...create combos using them...and watch anki. I think link is one of the most annoying players to fight because you can never get near him.

 

[Razgriz]

ur friend must L-cancel more, SHFFL more! he also must learn when and when not to use projectiles! his nair game is very BAD! i understand hes still learning so dont take this criticism too harshly.

i saw ur friend try and fair u but it didnt hit but a nair would have. and he tried to aerial hookshot u which had no benefitial result. basically i think he has a bit to learn still but ill get back to u later gtrg

I have my doubts as to whether he was using that aerial hookshot on purpose. Novice Links often use the hookshot by accident by jumping out of their shield in to an aerial attack but they didn't let go of the shield button in time. This is only a problem with Link because Link and Samus are the only characters that can grab in the air, and Samus can't Shuffle properly, so Link is the only player you have to worry about letting go of the shield button with.

As far as Link goes, defense is definitely the name of the game until you start a combo. Aniki is definitely a good role-model. My friend used to main Link until he learned that he could beat my Marth with Sheik and not even break a sweat. We called his Link "the mobile fortress" because he'd just bombard you with range and retreat, and as soon as you get close he'll up-B out of shield.

 

[Lorcl678]

Well, I kind of exaggerated in my first post when I said "he made little or no improvement." My friend DID make some progress, but created new problems while doing so. I can't really list all the problems about his Link at the moment since I haven't seen him play Smash for about two months. I'll try to make a video of his progress whenever he's not "busy."

Off Topic: A problem about making videos is that our video camera only records up to three minutes. If you guys can help my friend install his video card onto his computer by posting in his thread, that would be great. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=94977

EDIT: Oh, if you guys were too lazy to look into my friend's Youtube account profile, here's another old video of him playing against someone who WAS around his skill level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi6oL9Lw7oo We couldn't record the whole match because of the problem I already stated above.

 

[Razgriz]

"busy" huh? Sounds like your friend doesn't appreciate Melee as he should. Time to find yourself a better pupil.

 

[Bullet Bill]

That ***** needs to stop double jumping so much.

*nods*

don't use that word

 

[Wrath`]

Yes dont use use thst word

 

[Lorcl678]

Alright, my friend and I agreed to record a few matches on Friday or Saturday.

 

[goateeguy]

my suggestion for u is to play him as various chars. Im noticing hes full jumping a lot, to avoid the laser spamming. if he gets used to that, he'll do it when another char could take advantage of it and whack him.

The only other thing i can say is that hes a better link than me, and i have no right to critique him.

 

[Lorcl678]

Well how I used to train him was to pick random characters to versus him but in my opinion, I don't think it works too well because the style changes throughout each character. Oh, and he's "busy" again for this week because his mom wants him to stay home -_-. This is getting old.

 

[goateeguy]

Cant u just go to his house and bring ur gamecube if he doesnt have one? And It takes a while, but hes got to find ur fighting style out. Then he'll have a better idea of when to do what move and stuff. After that, start pulling out different chars, and force him to find your fighting style again through all the things u do differently as that char. If ur not at that point now, just give him vague pointers like "ooh, shouldn't have gotten hit by that" or "be a bit more evasive". If he is that good already, it's time he figured the rest out for himself!

 

[the_air_up_there7]

Just keep playing with him, if he doesn't improve either one or two, tell him to change characters, or this game wasn't meant for him.

 

[Razgriz]

Well how I used to train him was to pick random characters to versus him but in my opinion, I don't think it works too well because the style changes throughout each character. Oh, and he's "busy" again for this week because his mom wants him to stay home -_-. This is getting old.

This guy shows all the signs of apathy. Find a better pupil.

 

[Lorcl678]

Change in plans, he said I can come over on Saturday. By the way, he has his own copy of Smash so I don't need to bring any consoles along. Video will probably be up during the night on Saturday.

 

[Linkster47]

I'm not going to say he was great but I'm not going to say he was terrible. He was a bit above average(because he knows the advanced techs). If you guys want to see a real n00b, you should see my friend John. He still needs G&W and he can't beat lvl 9 cpus. His Link is just upB over and over, it's sad. John needs a lot of help!