How to get opponents shield "stuck"

[MiketheMike]

Dunno if there's a term for this, but for instance:

Kirby is u-tilting you against the wall and your shield is on. You try to roll outta it, even let your finger off the z trigger, you shield is still on leaving you open for a shield breaker.

How do i make this consistent with ness in open areas when doing his shield breaker combo? or can it be done?

 

[The Star King]

When a move hits a shield and the player shielding is unable to do anything, it's called "shield stun". If you can hit a shield with another move before shield stun ends repeatedly, you can get a guaranteed broken shield after the first move ( unless they get pushed off an edge).

Ness can break shields with fast double-jump cancel aerials.

 

[SheerMadness]

Like ShootingStar said, if you're djc'ing on their shield properly theres nothing they can do. Yes they can even let go of Z but their shield will still break if the ness is djc'ing correctly.

 

[MiketheMike]

Like ShootingStar said, if you're djc'ing on their shield properly theres nothing they can do. Yes they can even let go of Z but their shield will still break if the ness is djc'ing correctly.

Thats just it though, it can be done constantly when ness isn't hitting the opponent, but once he does its lke theres a lag where it just doesnt work. maybe just more practice

 

[smakis]

that is called hitlag, when you hit something your character freeze for a few frames, meaning you would have to input the djc with a different timing.

 

[OkamiBW]

Perhaps you're thinking of the difference between whiffing an attack versus hitting with it (shield or person). If you use an attack and it doesn't hit anything, you'll land faster. If you use an attack and hit someone or their shield, you are stuck motionless for a couple frames more.

(smakis beat me to the above)

Here is a breakdown of how fast Ness's DJC is:

DJC (double jump cancel) with no hitbox and no landing lag
1. Jump on frame 1
2. Jump on frame 4
3. Do any aerial on frame 5
4. Frame 6, you can do anything

Basically, you'll just make a little white circle come out and the double jump sound, but you won't hit anything.

Special DJC (no landing lag)
1. Jump on frame 1
2. Jump on frame 5
3. Nair or Dair on frame 6
4. Z-cancel if you Nair anywhere between frame 7 and 11 (You do not have to Z-cancel a Dair)*
5. Frame 12, you can do anything
OR
5. If you didn't Z-cancel the Nair, you are stuck in Aerial Landing lag (move on frame 26)
*Note: If you do a Bair, Fair, or Uair, you will not get any hitbox, but you will not have landing lag either

Normal DJC Nair/Dair (must Z-cancel)
1. Jump on frame 1
2. Jump on frame 5 or 6
3. Nair or Dair on frame 7
4. Z-cancel on frame 8 through 16
5. Z-cancel landing lag for 3 frames**
6. Move on frame 20
**If you didn't Z-cancel, it's probably something like frame 30 when you can move.

Normal DJC Fair/Bair/Uair (must Z-cancel)
1. Jump on frame 1
2. Jump on frame 5, 6, or 7
3. Fair/Bair/Uair on frame 8
4. Z-cancel on frame 9 through 18
5. Z-cancel landing lag for 3 frames
6. Move on frame 22

These are the fastest aerials you can do. Basically...you'll probably have the best luck breaking shields with down air or neutral air. I'd suggest Dair because you can keep the control stick down the whole time.

 

[firo]

From what I remember correctly you also don't need to z-cancel Uair, or, if there is some landing lag, there is not enough to make it so you can't break the shield.

An important thing to remember when trying to break shields with ness or any other character is to make sure that the move is hitting the shield and not the exposed parts of the opponent. As the shield get smaller it gets closer to the center of the character. Therefore, moves that hit the bottom, top, or extreme side of a character may not hit the shield when it is small and instead it will hit normally. It is possible for the opponent to direct the shield before the shield stun begins to make this more likely.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I find that if you're good enough, DJC uairs work well for shield breaks. I don't use DJC dairs as much. Also, don't try to shield break luigi. It's just a pain in the ***...

 

[TANK64]

Yea, I find uair to be the easiest lol- or just as easy as dair (since they're both easy). Yea, and I've tried it without L canceling and it has worked just fine.


Not that I play Ness *runs*

 

[NixxxoN]

djc dairs > all

 

[ciaza]

I find that on larger shields Uair works well, and on most average ones dair works great.

 

[SilentSlayers]

djc dairs > all

Agreed

10

 

[ballin4life]

Lol noobs nair is the way to go

 

[SilentSlayers]

Show off. XD

 

[Untrust Us]

yeah it's called shield stun

i think f-air is the most impressive xD

 

[ballin4life]

bair is the hardest because the timing is a bit different.

 

[OkamiBW]

yeah it's called shield stun

i think f-air is the most impressive xD

To my knowledge:

Shield stun is for the character in the shield, denoting how long the character must wait before they can move/jump out of shield/let go of shield.

Hit lag denotes when the attacking character is frozen for a few frames.

@ballin4life-Also, to my knowledge, bair/uair/fair all have the same timing. The only reason why uair might be easier than bair or fair is because you aren't jumping sideways and you are jumping straight up. When you jump sideways, you don't go as high as fast so you have to wait longer to start your aerial.

 

[ballin4life]

If you do bair as fast as I usually do for uair/dair then the hitbox doesn't come out.

 

[SSBPete]

i reckon uairs are the easiest personally. uair and dairs can land shield breakers without z cancles.
also some guy in my server a while back hit a 4 arial shield breaker consisting of every one of ness' arials excluding uair.

 

[blaze3927]

finishing with usmash is coolm
finishing with pkthunder is best

 

[ciaza]

i reckon uairs are the easiest personally. uair and dairs can land shield breakers without z cancles.
also some guy in my server a while back hit a 4 arial shield breaker consisting of every one of ness' arials excluding uair.

Kuromatsu?

 

[SSBPete]

Kuromatsu?

i think it was rom actually. cant really remember, but i do remember we both flipped out, like the time someone landed a quad upsmash on me with yoshi in the tent (think it was rom aswell).

 

[asianaussie]

It was me.

I once broke a shield with nothing but mario's d-smash. Gratuitous lag and 4 players helped.

 

[Wenbobular]

I once drill -> Up-b'd 3 people in an FFA and they all died
^_^

I suck at shield breaking though not that any of my characters are terribly good at doing so haha. I guess Falcon can double aerial, but I suck at those...

 

[OkamiBW]

not that any of my characters are terribly good at doing so haha.

The characters that are hypothetically the worst at shield breaking are Fox (minus multi-shines) and Pikachu because their aerials do not do as much damage as most characters. And the easiest are Ness and Yoshi because of DJC/tilts/smashes (Yoshi can do tilts to break and Ness can do aerial to smashes).

 

[dandan]

The characters that are hypothetically the worst at shield breaking are Fox (minus multi-shines) and Pikachu because their aerials do not do as much damage as most characters. And the easiest are Ness and Yoshi because of DJC/tilts/smashes (Yoshi can do tilts to break and Ness can do aerial to smashes).

for some reason i think you are neglecting some certain utilt.
and yoshi break shields with tilts. yoshi usually if not exclusively breaks shields with djcs and usmash when you are behind the char or dsmash if you are infront. i guess sheer would know more, i suck at shield breaks.
also, yoshi can dair shield break, so can samus upb.

 

[OkamiBW]

for some reason i think you are neglecting some certain utilt.
and yoshi break shields with tilts. yoshi usually if not exclusively breaks shields with djcs and usmash when you are behind the char or dsmash if you are infront. i guess sheer would know more, i suck at shield breaks.
also, yoshi can dair shield break, so can samus upb.

I'll test Ness's Shield breaking capabilities with Utilt later. I'm basing most of this off of JPleal's shield breaker videos. And I thought it was so obvious that both Ness and Yoshi can break shields with DJC's that I only explained Yoshi's use of tilts and Ness's use of smashing in the parenthetical portion of my post.

 

[dandan]

I'll test Ness's Shield breaking capabilities with Utilt later. I'm basing most of this off of JPleal's shield breaker videos. And I thought it was so obvious that both Ness and Yoshi can break shields with DJC's that I only explained Yoshi's use of tilts and Ness's use of smashing in the parenthetical portion of my post.

i did not mean ness, i meant kirby

 

[Untrust Us]

uair uair uair uair uair jab ok ok ok ok ok ok

 

[MiketheMike]

finishing with usmash is coolm
finishing with pkthunder is best

Ive seen it done, but not in a match. That should give the other player time to get out of the shield if you bust a pkthunder shouldnt it?

 

[SSBPete]

Ive seen it done, but not in a match. That should give the other player time to get out of the shield if you bust a pkthunder shouldnt it?

not if its the last move and timed perfectly.

cant dk land a shield break with 1 arial --> fully charged punch?

mario and luigi, i think, can double sh arial twice. easier for luigi cause fire punch can replace an arial or 2. not too sure about that one though.

 

[Darth Rancorous]

Ur cuttin it a lil close for last minute trainin, don't u think mikethemike? Lol

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

I find shield pressure really hard too, nearly always get shieldgrabbed or usmashed. what moves are good for each character, except for the obvious kirby, ness and yoshi.

 

[ciaza]

Pivot jab with fox is a cool way to shield pressure.

 

[rpotts]

^
This

Plus it gets you behind them, assuming you were in front to begin with, which is a better position to be in against most chars.

More importantly, it looks ****ing awesome.

 

[NixxxoN]

finishing with usmash is coolm
finishing with pkthunder is best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8eKrDIAySQ

 

[MiketheMike]

Ur cuttin it a lil close for last minute trainin, don't u think mikethemike? Lol

oh im quite ready my friend i dont play ness, im just helping out a friend

sorry to sound like a liar guys haha. but it does help me for other characters and what this "move" is called