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How to approach up-smash spam snakes?

ZHMT

Smash Lord
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Feb 5, 2008
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zeeehmtee
Im playing this snake that loves his up-smash. I cant approach from the air for obvious reasons. I tried to use a d-tilt (which is supposed to outrange him), however once my sword comes in range im hit by the mortar. I cant jump and fair in because Im hit as well. I literally think its impossible to approach without being hit or grabbed. Any ideas would be appreciated.

What im basically doing is jumping in and using a fair. Then sometimes I get lucky to shield and avoid all damage but its really lucky. Most of the time Im just trading hits with him and losing by 1 stock.

By the way this was online too =/
 

feardragon64

Smash Champion
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Apr 9, 2008
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2,154
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If all he does is snake dash(I'm assuming his snake dashing since what you're talking about sounds like a slide), then it sounds pretty predictible. Dtilt SHOULD work but if you're still having trouble with it, why not just counter? >>

Just make sure you don't get hit by the mortar after the counter
 

ZHMT

Smash Lord
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zeeehmtee
No no, he is standing in one spot camping using the up smash. He throws grenades occasionally. Its really boring, but its legal so yeah...

He isnt doing the dash, he is just standing there.
 

gallax

Smash Hero
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Apr 2, 2008
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Orlando(UCF), Fl
use your counter more then. fsmash him then keep chasing him. wait for an opening. the usmash(snakes) isnt that hard get get past.
 

feardragon64

Smash Champion
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use your counter more then. fsmash him then keep chasing him. wait for an opening. the usmash(snakes) isnt that hard get get past.
Basically. It's all about timing. It's not like he can create an impassable defense of mortar and grenades. It might seem that way but trust me, it's not.

If the snake player hasn't mastered grenade stripping, catch them when he throws em and send em back at him(you'll have to be kinda close to get this to work). You can air dodge mortar when it's coming down and fair him. After he's in the air, don't give him a chance to recover. He'll probably nade some more, but he can't nade cook while he's in the air, so just be sure to throw em right back. After you get in, it's all about keeping the pressure on. That's the best way to handle campers =]
 

Doodx

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
497
use a shield breaker which has a mad range and is VERY strong
 

ZHMT

Smash Lord
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Tampa, Florida
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zeeehmtee
The shield breaker kinda works. Thing is, once you hit him the mortar that falls hits you. However after the amount of times he uses it it only does like 8% eventually, as Im doing like 14%.

Also feardragon64, very true Ill just have to do what I do with all spam. Learn how to beat it by learning the timing, and when I do never lose to it again.:)
 

∫unk

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
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more than one place
air dodge into shield is your friend against snake. time your grab or roll to avoid the falling missile (or whatever it is)
 

Retroking2000

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
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3,577
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London , Silver Street
bair can outrange it . try auto RAR. you can also shield -brake . for me personallythen how i deal with it is to edge stall . the snake gets tired and attacks . then i **** ;D
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
Basically. It's all about timing. It's not like he can create an impassable defense of mortar and grenades. It might seem that way but trust me, it's not.

If the snake player hasn't mastered grenade stripping, catch them when he throws em and send em back at him(you'll have to be kinda close to get this to work). You can air dodge mortar when it's coming down and fair him. After he's in the air, don't give him a chance to recover. He'll probably nade some more, but he can't nade cook while he's in the air, so just be sure to throw em right back. After you get in, it's all about keeping the pressure on. That's the best way to handle campers =]
If you want, you can glidetoss it into him with a reverse/forward glidetoss, and then immediately Counter. Note the glidetoss sends you like 2/3s of FD's length so if you have to stay close to him to even grab the grenades, I'd prefer a glidetoss AWAY from him (roll backwards, cancel into forward toss, you'll travel backwards all the way back to the other side probably). From here, you can repeat the same thing until he stops spamming the grenades. Although this takes some tech practice, but it's basically like Samus' super-wavedash in Melee IIRC distance-wise, but slightly nerfed.

From then, you can apply pressure and force Snake to be on the move. If Snake gets aggressive, be cautious and be extra aware of your spacing. Counter if necessary. In this match-up, I'm generally going with Ftilt over Dtilt. However, if you can predict that he's going to throw move X (Ftilt for example), Dtilt and use the IASA frames to activate Counter. The Dtilt then acts as a low-lag bait for you to get in damage until the Snake takes notice (take note of the range of Ftilt though, you can't Counter if you're dead >_>).

You'll be playing mostly on the ground here, so if Snake screws up and/or leaves himself open, Dancing Blade is generally the way to go. If you're close to the edge, do downwards ending stabs, or neutral slash to set up for edgeguarding.

The ending sword strikes ("Sword Dance") send him in a lower trajectory, which will force him to eat up damage by making him use C2 to get himself back on if he can't just with Up-B alone, or force him to recover near the edge if he hasn't mastered C2 tech-to-stage at higher percents. From the latter point, grabbing him out of the Up-B kills him (make sure you don't jab him or the hit recovers his Up-B). Play it safe and edgehog to make sure nothing funny happens after you grab release.

At lower percents, upward slash as your 4th Dancing Blade sets up for some nice Utilt juggling. Upthrow does similar here if you can get it in. Fthrow and Dthrow can set up for Dancing Blade or Fsmash if you prefer.

Generally, just play it safe. Don't try to be all flashy; stick to what works. But glidetossing is an option if you can't resist. =P Just know it's not at all necessary though.

Oh and yeah, should I have completely screwed up how this match-up usually goes, please do tell me. I never get far enough in tourneys to fight the good Snakes lol (although I only attended 2 tourneys and generally spend my days practicing spacing w/ lv.9 CPUs, only to scream in anguish because they Perfect Shield every ****ing thing I throw at them).
 

ZHMT

Smash Lord
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Feb 5, 2008
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zeeehmtee
I like what Im hearing, I was trying out this stuff. When he makes his "wall" of mortars I just jump in with a fair (timed well) and immediatly airdodge to shield. That usually works.

He is also the neutral a (ground combo) spammer too, you know that broken move that does 18-21%. For that I just shield into dancing blade or grab.

So far everything is working well.:)
 
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