How Necessary are turn around shines?

[VAL0]

I would like to know how necessary turn around shines are for Space animals in today's changing gameplay because i am wondering if i should adapt my play style to fit it or just stick to the basic stuff; such as edge guarding with a dair instead of turn around shine bair...

 

[mastermoo420]

I ain't no Falco main, but for a quick answer, I'd say a well hit d-air would be far more deadly as one can not return from a spike (unless at very low percents) while things like a TAShine-Bair still give the option of living.

 

[VAL0]

Definitely at low percents it would be out of the question but at high percents it can be variable....Dair misses sometimes because of the way the a character decides to recover....and besides that most people expect falco to dair...does that mean i still should?

 

[MT_]

Turnaround shine bair is just another option and a useful one. Imagine the scenario where you hit your opponent high off the other side of the stage and he is recovering high. He's at the percentage where a nair won't kill him, but a bair will. You're running to the other side of the stage to follow and hit him for the final kill, but you can't bair in the right direction without stopping, turning around, and then bairing. If you can turnaround shine bair, you now leave your bair as an available option to attack instead of just nair, and you have not lost any speed/time in doing so. (Bair will also give better range than nair, plus shine turnaround bair looks cool and can be unexpected)

 

[JPOBS]

a turn around shine bair has the more knockback in the forward direction than any of falco's other aerials.

its really useful when your opponent is above and in front of you to push them off the stage and set up edgeguards.

btw, im talking about empty shine->turnaround bair. shine turnaround bairs where both the shine and bair hit are sexy but not really any different/important

 

[Kason Birdman]

i love turn around bairs for edge guarding.. they ****...

as for dair.. dair is pretty easy to tech if your right on the ledge and if your having to go far out enough that it cant be tech'd theres a lot higher chance you will kill yourself dairing than bairing. so shine turn around bair is pretty good.. its still just dependant on the scenario.. and what you prefer. but its still definately good to mix it up

 

[VAL0]

Bair will also give better range than nair, plus shine turnaround bair looks cool and can be unexpected

Thats what i was thinking, the range is better and that mostt people wouldn't expect it

im talking about empty shine->turnaround bair. shine turnaround bairs where both the shine and bair hit are sexy but not really any different/important

I don't know how many safe scenarios would be recommendable for empty Shine TA Bair......maybe if someone is in front of your shield and you don't want to grab them......but to edge guard in a Sheik/Marth situation they would just fair/nair you before you get too close....

dair is pretty easy to tech if your right on the ledge and if your having to go far out enough that it cant be tech'd theres a lot higher chance you will kill yourself dairing than bairing.

true, cause dair gives alot of lag.

 

[JPOBS]

I don't know how many safe scenarios would be recommendable for empty Shine TA Bair......maybe if someone is in front of your shield and you don't want to grab them......but to edge guard in a Sheik/Marth situation they would just fair/nair you before you get too close....

Mostly i was talking about when a character is in hitstun above and in front of you, such as when you dair them at high percents. Its a great combo finisher.

However, you'd be surprised how often it work on many chars recvoery.
Firstly, you can use it to edgeguard any recovery which is either directly horizontal (fox's illusion) or predictably vertical (falcon/Ganons B-up)

With marth, if you can guess when he's going to side-B, you can drop from the stage, empty shine TA bair him because his side-B has massive lag.

these are just a few examples, and there are always other options to edgeguarding.

What im saying in, Shine TA bair is great in a lot of ways, but its not the best thing ever, use it if you want, or dont, its not essential, but its falco's best horizontal finisher when you're moving forward. You could also just do regular Bairs that hit such that your opponent is sent forward, but in my experience those are way easier to survival DI because of the nature of the hitbox

 

[FoxLisk]

shine turnaround bair is pretty dank

i use it when im like running at the edge for an edgeguard. i'll full hop/sh depending on the situation shine turn around and then i can either DJ bair if they go high or drop down and edgehog and go from there if they stay low. it keeps your options open and is fast.

 

[KirbyKaze]

While we're on the note of turning around in Shine --> Bair, certain kinds of combos and setups are enabled by fluency in doing so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09kAQPOcR9U#t=1m34s

Whether these variations are useful enough to warrant attention (Falco's basic combo game is like already guaranteed 0-80 on FFers with how technical Falco mains are) is another matter entirely, but it's something to note.

 

[FoxLisk]

that was a pretty combo, but the shine -> weak nair -> fsmash was the impressive part imo

 

[prog]

Thats what i was thinking, the range is better and that mostt people wouldn't expect it



I don't know how many safe scenarios would be recommendable for empty Shine TA Bair......maybe if someone is in front of your shield and you don't want to grab them......but to edge guard in a Sheik/Marth situation they would just fair/nair you before you get too close....




true, cause dair gives alot of lag.

where in brooklyn do you live?

 

[VAL0]

where in brooklyn do you live?

I live in the Kings area, close to Kings plaza

 

[KirbyKaze]

that was a pretty combo, but the shine -> weak nair -> fsmash was the impressive part imo

I tend to focus on what setup stuff like that more than the finish.

 

[prog]

I live in the Kings area, close to Kings plaza

not sure where that is, but hit me up sometimes.

 

[FoxLisk]

I tend to focus on what setup stuff like that more than the finish.

yeah of course the spacing and planning going into it is more important in the long run. that he turned around in his shine seemed sort of noncrucial though, since a nair instead of a bair would still have worked out fine. the creative and effective use of the weak nair hitbox was much more interesting to me because i've never seen it exploited like that on purpose.

i guess i have in terms of weak nair -> fsmash forward, but that's more throwing out an early nair than using the back side of the hitbox.

 

[VAL0]

not sure where that is, but hit me up sometimes.

sure thing, I'll hit you up on aim

 

[Metal Reeper]

I think turn around shine Bair looks freakin awesome, I'd like to have it in my bag of tricks

 

[Deathgazer]

, I'd say a well hit d-air would be far more deadly as one can not return from a spike

not unless youre playing PAL (( lol
___________________________________________________

(This is for if youre aiming to hit with the shine and bair)
Imo I think normal shine bairs are the same as TAshine bair as long as you space it well, aim at the right place and DI into their direction for the bair. Turnaround shines to aerial take longer because you have to wait for the turnaround animation and there are higher chances to mess it up if you do it too quickly. It looks pretty cool though lol.

If you're using the TA shine bair and only aiming to hit with the bair, its quite useful for edge guarding especially if the other person is trying to recover onto the stage from a distance. If theyre trying to sweetspot, I would drop off and down the stage a little TAshine and time the bair.

otherwise Dair is a pretty good edgeguard

 

[Kanelol]

*****es don't know bout my shine turnaround edgehog. In all reality, shine turnaround shenanigans probably aren't that important, but it looks cool as ****

 

[FoxLisk]

*****es don't know bout my shine turnaround edgehog. In all reality, shine turnaround shenanigans probably aren't that important, but it looks cool as ****

haha man. i got really good at shine turnaround edgehogs. then i didnt play for like two weeks. then yesterday i missed like a million edgeguards because i kept screwing them up they do look nice though

 

[Kanelol]

I remember the first time I saw shine turnaround edgehog I never ever thought I would be able to do it

and the first time I did it I accidentally SD'd I was so excited

still can't waveshine turnaround spam thingy like Swolf, but I'll get it

 

[null55]

ya, there's shine -> turn around bair, which, besides looking ****, is useful in hitting the opponent farther than shine nair would (plus im pretty bair has more range than does).

using the shine to turn around to utilize bair is a big part of falco's edgeguarding as well.


a way i've learned to use turn around bair is right off the edge, though. it's a really nice surprise for people who are making the appropriate prediction about your movement form the ledge. lol i've gotten kills this way even.