How much tech skill is required?

[MTKO]

So I'm sure a lot of people are going to think I'm a scrub for posting this and that this is a stupid question. :D But I want to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

How much tech skill do you think is "required" to win against someone who plays at the same mental level as you, but has extremely great tech skill to add more options into their play style?

I'd also like to ask, do you think it's possible to rely almost completely on strategy/mindgames/mental abilities against some of the best players who have that plus great technical skills? And I'm talking no tech skill besides short hopping and fast falling and that's about it.

Would a player just be at too much of a disadvantage, without tech skill, to consistently win?

 

[Beat!]

Ridiculous technical consistency is one of the main reasons the best players are the best, imo. It's just as important as the mental part.

So yes, you would get stomped.

imo

 

[gm jack]

Not necessary ever, if you make perfect predictions and never get read. However, you are putting your self at a massive disadvantage.

 

[0Room]

You need enough to do what you need to do perfectly.
So if you play fox, a lot more than if you play sheik, for instance.

You want the basics down to the point where you never mess up.

 

[DJRome]

lol how can you never get read if you have bad tech skill? tech skill encompasses spacing and movement. you will just lose if you have significantly worse tech skill

 

[Massive]

If someone is on the same mental level as you but has better tech skill, they are better than you.

The 'even' scenario you're alluding to usually comes when someone my not be as strategically proficient as you, but makes up for it with technical ability.

That being said, there is a baseline level of technical skill you need to be competitive, and it's usually composed of L-cancelling, wavedashing, OoS tactics, and knowing your character's range. Above this level tech skill either gives you more wiggle room to execute a strategy or is basically just a flourish.

 

[eschemat]

Except for Puff lmao. If you don't like tech skill, use Mangopuff.

 

[Shoopman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDHs6UXgR8

This much. Minimum.

 

[Pi]

You need enough to do what you need to do perfectly.

this is the best answer to your question

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

past this it comes down to how creative/innovative you are as a player

if you can see a punish requiring tech skill that you don't have, then you need to attain it

for instance

if you're fighting marth, and he fsmashes your shield
you need to be able to wavedash out and punish him for it

if you're playing falco, and you uptilt your opponent on yoshi's, you need to be able to shine, waveland on the top platform, and then shine him off the top

i say 'need' because if you don't have this ability, then you are forfeiting options and essentially playing on a lower level for no reason

things that you don't need would encompass anything that can't be performed the vast majority of the time, for example you don't need to be able to multishine 10 times in a row perfectly every time

 

[Zodiac]

How much tech skill do you think is "required" to win against someone who plays at the same mental level as you

To answer your question, Tech skill is simply making your character do what you need them to do. Its not a question of how much tech skill you have, its how you use it.

 

[Stratford]

And I'm talking no tech skill besides short hopping and fast falling and that's about it.

Add L cancelling and you've got a deal.

 

[MTKO]

this is the best answer to your question

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

past this it comes down to how creative/innovative you are as a player

if you can see a punish requiring tech skill that you don't have, then you need to attain it

for instance

if you're fighting marth, and he fsmashes your shield
you need to be able to wavedash out and punish him for it

if you're playing falco, and you uptilt your opponent on yoshi's, you need to be able to shine, waveland on the top platform, and then shine him off the top

i say 'need' because if you don't have this ability, then you are forfeiting options and essentially playing on a lower level for no reason

things that you don't need would encompass anything that can't be performed the vast majority of the time, for example you don't need to be able to multishine 10 times in a row perfectly every time

This is basically what I think of the matter as well. I wanted to know what everyone thought about this because I try to explain to a couple friends with no tech skill that it's important to learn it, but they think it's just fancy stuff used to show off and one guy think he's "above" learning it because it's "not part of the game". <,<

That being said, I've gotten better with my understanding of the game, mental game, and tech skill and now they lose... a lot. I kind of stopped giving them tips and stuff because they'd just argue with me about it, and now they tend to rage quit.

 

[Wake]

That there wavedashing is cheap, and only them cheaters use it!!!

 

[Shadow Huan]

just remember that tech skill and smart play have to go hand in hand

besides that, what everyone else said lol

 

[xbombr]

You can't beat someone more technical than you if you're at the same mental level. Of course, you don't need as much tech skill if you're at a higher mental level than them.

This is why you can beat your little brother by just walking around and FSmashing with Marth, but you'll lose to someone who understands what you're doing.

Along the lines of what Massive said, basically when you play competitively, there is a certain base mental level and base tech skill level that you're going to run into. You'll either have to outsmart these players or out-tech them to get ahead. Or....you can just abuse horrible match ups in some cases.

 

[SSBMLahti]

Except for Puff lmao. If you don't like tech skill, use Mangopuff.

No. Just no.

 

[Twinkles]

This is something I'd kinda like to know too. I mean, what is the unofficial "basic tech skill requirement" for someone to be considered somewhat viable in tournament play? DD, wavedash, SHFFL, what?

 

[Renth]

watch the advanced how to play videos, that's the basics of tournament level play. The rest after that is personal experience.

 

[Strong Badam]

About 73 I'd say.

 

[Massive]

This is something I'd kinda like to know too. I mean, what is the unofficial "basic tech skill requirement" for someone to be considered somewhat viable in tournament play? DD, wavedash, SHFFL, what?

It's going to vary by character.
You need to be able to preform the generally established tactics/combos the character is capable of.
For example,

• Falcons need to be able to l-cancel a stomp/knee and dashdance.
• Marths need to be able to space properly, grab, and wavedash.
• Foxes need to be able to l-cancel nairs to shine and upsmash out of shield.
• Jiggs need to have great DI, space correctly, and possess BALLS OF STEEL to risk rests.

There are obviously many more things to know(even for Jigglypuff!).

The most universal things to establish competitiveness with any character are spacing and L-cancelling. DI is also super important, but can vary based on the weight of each character and the matchup you're in.

When you know the spacing of your character of choice and can L-cancel your moves properly, you can start worrying more about strategy and less about shorthop doublelasers.

 

[Twinkles]

It's going to vary by character.
You need to be able to preform the generally established tactics/combos the character is capable of.
For example,

• Falcons need to be able to l-cancel a stomp/knee and dashdance.
• Marths need to be able to space properly, grab, and wavedash.
• Foxes need to be able to l-cancel nairs to shine and upsmash out of shield.
• Jiggs need to have great DI, space correctly, and possess BALLS OF STEEL to risk rests.

There are obviously many more things to know(even for Jigglypuff!).

The most universal things to establish competitiveness with any character are spacing and L-cancelling. DI is also super important, but can vary based on the weight of each character and the matchup you're in.

When you know the spacing of your character of choice and can L-cancel your moves properly, you can start worrying more about strategy and less about shorthop doublelasers.

Very detailed advice. Thanks a lot!

Also, the Advanced How to Play video was pretty nice. Unfortunately, I don't think my attention span permits me to really study it...

 

[Riio]

Very detailed advice. Thanks a lot!

Also, the Advanced How to Play video was pretty nice. Unfortunately, I don't think my attention span permits me to really study it...

watching a couple youtube videos that explain how to get better shouldn't be that painful if you really want to improve, imo.

 

[mesa23]

About 73 I'd say.

73 sounds about right.

 

[Twinkles]

watching a couple youtube videos that explain how to get better shouldn't be that painful if you really want to improve, imo.

A lot more painful than actually playing the game, imo XP

But, I watched them, and surprisingly I knew most if not all of the ATs just based off hearing bits and pieces of what other players talk about.

 

[Lovage]

haha twinkles you live in calabasas? tiiiight

 

[1048576]

"It's much easier to learn to wavedash than be Aniki"

 

[Twinkles]

haha twinkles you live in calabasas? tiiiight

Oh ****, you live in Westlake, Lovage? We gotta have a match some time. I can take **** like a man XD

 

[4 Aces]

About 73 I'd say.

73? 73 what?

• Jiggs need to have great DI, space correctly, and possess BALLS OF STEEL to risk rests.

Oh my god this. I always wuss out right when I see a potential rest opportunity. I tend to feel more comfortable when I play an easier opponent though. lol good thing I don't main Puff, eh?

Wavedashing and L-Canceling are the most important.

Imo, L-Cancel (and, naturally, shffl) is the single most important thing to learn. I see too many casual players who think they're good, or say that they, "used to be really good," just because they could somewhat wavedash. Wavedashing is a great asset, but the way I see it, it only amplifies what you already can do. So if you're a newbie, and all you can do is the basic attacks that the programmers intended, then honestly wavedashing doesn't add all that much more to their overall tech skill. What? Wavedash into Smash Attack/Grab? Great, but that's the best and only good utility you're gonna get out of it (that's all I ever see wavedashing newbies do).

I mean, obviously you can do other stuff like wavedash into tilt, but I really feel like newbies don't/can't see the utility till they can l-cancel as well.

 

[Strong Badam]

that's the joke. it's a stab at the thread's main question of "How much tech skill is required?" which isn't measurable.
keep spreading 73 guys

 

[Massive]

So if you're a newbie, and all you can do is the basic attacks that the programmers intended...

True story, before I knew about any other advanced tactics (even wavedashing, this was in 2003) I could powershield about 70% of just about anything (projectiles, attacks, etc). To me the game was about shieldgrabbing and baiting, and I was AMAZING.

Sometimes you lose things as you improve, but gain things much better than them.

It's a stab at the thread's main question of "How much tech skill is required?" which isn't measurable.
keep spreading 73 guys

 

[4 Aces]

that's the joke. it's a stab at the thread's main question of "How much tech skill is required?" which isn't measurable.
keep spreading 73 guys

Lol I figured as much.

Will spread your teachings.

True story, before I knew about any other advanced tactics (even wavedashing, this was in 2003) I could powershield about 70% of just about anything (projectiles, attacks, etc). To me the game was about shieldgrabbing and baiting, and I was AMAZING.

Sometimes you lose things as you improve, but gain things much better than them.

Well damn. I wish I could powershield 70% of the time (as well as do other techs). I couldn't do anything important as a noob other than shield grabbing and teching (I suppose that's good enough for a noob lol).