How I would improve Jigglypuff. #BUFFTHEPUFF

pikazz

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#41
oh please, I completely forgot about Jab-lock ;A;

her being able to jab lock with her jab at any % would be a HUUUUGE deal for her
 
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RDR7

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#42
Have you ever played a mod called Brawl -? It has some neat ideas that we could perhaps use for buffs:
Here are a few examples: While charging d-smash there is a small vacuum effect pulling opponents in(can be escaped by jumping or shielding/rolling)
d-tilt slides her slightly forward, Rollout charges more quickly and(if missed) can be cancelled into a pivot grab, Sing reaches much farther just like in the show. These all improve on her offensive abilities and overall fun to play as and against which is what Nintendo wants in the end.
btw what about adding jab being able to jab-lock again to the list of buffs:awesome:?
Oooo. Jab reset jab does sound interesting. She was able to do it in melee and brawl too. I'll lay it on jab 1.
 

FunAtParties

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#43
your jake picture is awesome but i can't land bair with almost all characters for no reason i use fair for jiggs way more then bair
Hey thanks!

I say just practice. Go to training mode and practice hitting a stationary target til you get comfortable, then jumping, then running. Practice doing it after shad's and rar and all that junk. Then play cpu's in a match, do nothing but Bair, winnings not important just get a handle of it, do a little bit on FG too, just don't worry about winning when you practice, because it'll impede learning how to use the attack properly. Lastly, just try and implement Bair into your play, try to use it for kills as it stales quickly. That's how I learned, I'm not great or anything but I'm not bad either.

Hope this helps!
 
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drakeirving

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#44
but something I would love to be buffed is her ability to win trades on attacks.
her attacks has Zero priorities, especially aerials meaning that if both opponent will attack eachother, she will mostly trade but will often lose in % dealing.
This doesn't exist. Whether an aerial wins a potential trade or not is only about whether the hitbox connects faster (ignoring properties like partial invincibility). Whether this means the move comes out faster, or if the opponent's aerial doesn't connect with a hurtbox while yours does. Disjoint affects the latter.

so my nr1 buffs would be giving her "Defensive Hitbox" on her attacks.
do those who want example of what I mean, her Dash Attack has an Defensive Hitbox, meaning she can run and dash attack an projectile without taking damage and remove the projectile. (Marios/Luigis UpSmash has it on their Heads, Bowsers on his Jab and Fair, Sheik has it on her arm on Fair but a small one)
Jiggs' Dash Attack has a separate property called trample, and is different from partial invincibility like you see in Mario's upsmash. Bowser's jab is partially intangible (slightly different), and his fair (along with Sheik's) is actually something else entirely that is more like a defensive hitbox.

The suggestions are interesting though. I'm not sure if I'd vouch for them, but I'd like to see how play would change with those additions.
 
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pikazz

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#45
This doesn't exist. Whether an aerial wins a potential trade or not is only about whether the hitbox connects faster (ignoring properties like partial invincibility). Whether this means the move comes out faster, or if the opponent's aerial doesn't connect with a hurtbox while yours does. Disjoint affects the latter.

Jiggs' Dash Attack has a separate property called trample, and is different from partial invincibility like you see in Mario's upsmash. Bowser's jab is partially intangible (slightly different), and his fair (along with Sheik's) is actually something else entirely that is more like a defensive hitbox.

The suggestions are interesting though. I'm not sure if I'd vouch for them, but I'd like to see how play would change with those additions.
I am using "brawl hack" term there defensive hitbox is equal intangible hurtbox, which Jigglypuffs Dash Attacks Body has
 

drakeirving

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#46
I know what you mean, I'm saying that Dash Attack isn't intangible. There are many different kinds of "defensive" properties of moves, and the moves you listed do four different things, not the same thing.
 

Desu~

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#47
Jiggs' dash attack is not invincible like Mario's Up smash lol.

Like any other Jiggs ground attacks, the best it can do is clash attacks, but even then you're in the disadvantage as any character with a fast startup will just laugh at your get-in options.
 

drakeirving

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#48
Well like I said, it does have trample, which lets you clank with another move on its first hit but tank through and connect with the second hit. The first hit of dash attack deals 12 damage so you can straight-up beat many single-hit smash attacks, unlike many other characters' dash attacks with trample.
 

Amiracle

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#49
She needs a better ground game and I agreed with all of this. I really want a combo out of her one of throws most of all though
 

Amiracle

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#51
I think a big part as to why they made jigglypuff lack throw combos is that a grab into a rest for instance would be pretty OP. I do think she needs some kind of combo, but not sure how you would do it without making it too powerful
 

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#52
I think a big part as to why they made jigglypuff lack throw combos is that a grab into a rest for instance would be pretty OP. I do think she needs some kind of combo, but not sure how you would do it without making it too powerful
I mean it's not like Rest has good range, having a throw combo to an aerial isn't a guarantee to set up rest. I really don't care much for throw combos either way, but I'd love for b throw to dunk characters at the ledge forcing them to use their double jump. Could really work into her aerial character mantra.
 

PowerPuffPlayer

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#55
Honestly, this is what I want for a buff.
Up Throw kills at around %110 on FD version of stages.
Down Throw as a combo throw.
Forward and Back Throw stays the same.
Less lag on Forward, Up, and Down Smash.
Larger Hitboxes on Down and Up Smash.
Less start up on Bair.
Less ending lag on Dair.
Rest buffed up, now kills most characters at around %30.
Pound has more horizontal distance.
Rollout has a buff.
Sing can't be shielded or countered.
Up tilt has less knockback making it easier to use at later percentages.
Side tilt has a slightly bigger hitbox.
Down tilt doesn't change.
Higher short hop.
Air speed increased
 

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#60
That's true, but I still believe that there are better ways to improve the puff.
Honestly I feel a kill throw is out of character, I'd much rather have a combo throw or something that gives her an aerial advantage like the b throw I put out there. Everyone has different opinions though.

The OP covers most of the things I want done to her. Pretty sure she'd be top tier with all the changes here.
 
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PowerPuffPlayer

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#61
Honestly I feel a kill throw is out of character, I'd much rather have a combo throw or something that gives her an aerial advantage like the b throw I put out there. Everyone has different opinions though.

The OP covers most of the things I want done to her. Pretty sure she'd be top tier with all the changes here.
I felt that a kill throw would be good due to her not having a lot of finishing moves. The only moves that are reliable to kill with are her Up/Side smash, rest, back air and neutral air. A kill throw would be a nice addition.
I did say that down throw should be a combo throw. Having both a combo and kill throw would improve her a lot.
Although, my improvement list is garbage compared to RDR7's.
 

PowerPuffPlayer

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#64
Other than a way to put people into an optimal edgeguarding situation which is what Jigglypuff excels at? You underestimate what a slight angle and power adjustment could do!:mad:
Chill mate. I didn't know it meant that much to you. It's just my opinion for what I want for Jiggs. I didn't know that a slight angle and power adjustment was a big deal for puff's forward throw to make it good.
 

Stickmanlolz

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#65
Chill mate. I didn't know it meant that much to you. It's just my opinion for what I want for Jiggs. I didn't know that a slight angle and power adjustment was a big deal for puff's forward throw to make it good.
I'm not mad. Just slightly irritated at our current f-throw's uselessness. Be-:054: you made some good points
 

sirchadakiss18

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#68
first I would make Sing's active frame start on maybe 15-17 also give her less cool down on her throws so follow ups from grabs are an option. since she fails at having a solid close quarters combat neutral , just make her a semi-decent grappler. nothing game breaking.

Fthrow to a Fair/Nair/Uair would be a thing

Dthrow to Nair Uair strings

Uair to Rest is back, or even be creative and mix it up.

Back throw to Bair /Uair is a thing

she'd be Mid at best.
 

Jiggly

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#72
Jolly Jiggler's rest needs to insta kill again.
eh I'm honestly not that concerned about melee rest. A bit of extra power would be a nice. Changing game mechanics to alwas star KO when multiple stocks left and always blast KO when the last stock
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#75
The one thing that probably makes the least amount of sense is why Jigglypuff's air speed is worse than Yoshi's air speed. For a fighter who's very slow on the ground, you would think that Jigglypuff would have the fastest air mobility to make up for its sluggish ground speed.
 

Jiggly

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#76
The one thing that probably makes the least amount of sense is why Jigglypuff's air speed is worse than Yoshi's air speed. For a fighter who's very slow on the ground, you would think that Jigglypuff would have the fastest air mobility to make up for its sluggish ground speed.
I would love to take the difference between their speed now, and make puff that much fast than yoshi. That's a solid buff that will open up a lot more aerial combos and make her weaving better.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#77
I would love to take the difference between their speed now, and make puff that much fast than yoshi. That's a solid buff that will open up a lot more aerial combos and make her weaving better.
At the most part, I was thinking that Jigglypuff's air speed should be set to 1.35 (its Melee air speed value). That would surely outspeed even Limit Break Cloud's air speed.
 

RDR7

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#78
At the most part, I was thinking that Jigglypuff's air speed should be set to 1.35 (its Melee air speed value). That would surely outspeed even Limit Break Cloud's air speed.
To be fair I added 1.325 to the buffs. Reason being everyone falls faster in melee. I think 1.35 airspeed combined with her air time would be a bit much. :v Plus 1.325 is faster than yoshi's airspeed. :33
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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#79
To be fair I added 1.325 to the buffs. Reason being everyone falls faster in melee. I think 1.35 airspeed combined with her air time would be a bit much. :v Plus 1.325 is faster than yoshi's airspeed. :33
Just in case you didn't know, Limit Break Cloud actually has the best air speed of all the fighters; Cloud's air speed increases to 1.32 while in Limit Break mode.
 

Jiggly

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#80
Just in case you didn't know, Limit Break Cloud actually has the best air speed of all the fighters; Cloud's air speed increases to 1.32 while in Limit Break mode.
even then, limit break cloud doesnt have puffs air time. I think 1.325 would work great for puff
 
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