How do you react to people who genuinely want Dragon Ball's Goku in Smash Bros.?

[Quillion]

This nicely sums up my view of Nintendo. I did not grow up with Nintendo so I had the privilege of watching my favorite franchises get utterly destroyed through corporate greed. I subsequently developed a fondness for indie games since I had an acute understanding of the dangers of what can happen to your video game creation, your work of art, when you sign a contract with another company. But Nintendo has continually surprised me with their class, their good character, over the past couple of decades. Even when I see a blatant cash grab from them I still have a hard time hating them since there's so much that they do right. Unlike their chief competitors - whom I loath and never buy from - Nintendo IS a respectable company. They actually have artistic vision. In a way they're somewhat comparable to Apple (when it was under the leadership of Jobs) in that they're always doing their own unique thing, blazing a trail for their less creative, less inspired competitors to follow. I even sometimes view Nintendo as a life raft amid a sea of drowning 3rd party franchises where, by the grace of God, your favorite franchise could wind up in Nintendo's hands instead of frickin' EA or Activision (this of course never happens but its nice to dream).

Don't gush too hard about Nintendo. Their marching to the beat of their own drum comes at the heavy price of poor availability of rereleases of anything but NES and SNES games, unwillingness to leap forward and embrace modern online standards, and general unfriendliness to third party developers.

 

[Dan]

It's just something people like; it's like liking a type of music. You can't really control what you like.

Kingdom Hearts might be my favorite franchise and I have no desire to see Sora in Smash.

 

[Luigifan18]

My reaction is usually laughter at the poor sap's naïveté.

 

[Matoi]

I would actually welcome Goku being in the game as long as its a one time special guest type of thing. I mean we already know it's not gonna happen and Sakurai even mocked people who were asking for him, but I wouldnt have a problem with him being in.

 

[Robertman2]

Why pick Goku when Vegeta is so much better

 

[MSmariosonic]

Why pick Goku when Vegeta is so much better

You mean the biggest cry baby known in pop culture?

"my whole race got slaughtered!" > Goes on killing nappa for not being capable of beating goku despite Vegeta himself also not being capable of beating goku.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

First I'm like

Spoiler

But then I'm like

Spoiler

(I don't usually use reaction pictures but I got a whole ton of them recently)

 

[Sephazon]

I'm disappointed in seeing any support for Goku when we have a much better, overlooked, manga-centric candidate for Super Smash Bros. This character even has a rich history on Nintendo consoles. I think the community needs to turns its collective attention away from Goku and to...

Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon

Seriously though, I don't mind it. People will want who they want. When Cloud was revealed, I legitimately felt that nobody could really top him in terms of "no way," aside from Goku. I even felt that Banjo-Kazooie was always a more likely fighter than Cloud, but here we are today. If Goku somehow miraculously becomes a newcomer, I wouldn't mind, as long as it's a one time manga fighter deal. Unless Sailor Moon is a Goku echo.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

You joke, but I would legitimately cheer for Sailor Moon. The universe could use more heroes like her, guided by love and justice and sparkles and ribbons and etc. etc.

 

[Turtlar]

I'm not fond of the idea of non-video game characters getting into Smash, but I won't say that I outright oppose it. Characters who have iconic games that have history with Nintendo, such as James Bond or TMNT, would be some of the very few exceptions I would be okay with, but even still, you could make them play true to their character as well.

If there were ever to be an anime character in Smash, Goku would definitely be the one it should be, but making him both balanced and true to his origins would be near impossible. The only way I could see it feasibly work is if they based him off of his kid self from Dragon Ball, before he could fly, but something tells me that's not what fans of the character want.

 

[Oddball]

I think Sailor Moon would make a much better addition to Smash than Goku would.

 

[Quillion]

Again, all of this is less in the hands of Sakurai or the fans and more in the hands of companies like Shueisha and Kodansha.

If they want Goku and Sailor Moon in Smash respectively, they'll ink out a deal with Nintendo to do so. Sakurai can only do what Nintendo tells him.

 

[Cap’nKazam]

I dunno. I sometimes get the feeling Nintendo needs Sakurai more than Sakurai needs Nintendo. Smash Bros. is his brainchild, and nobody has any idea what it would even look like without him. As Reggie said it: "in the end it’s [Sakurai's] decision to make." That's not a bad thing, I think.

 

[NintenJen]

The idea of Goku in Smash doesn't appeal to me at all. But people are free to support him, even though I think his chances are slim.

Personally, I think Smash should just stick to game characters. Yes, I know Goku has made appearances in video games... but so has Batman. I guess by that logic, Batman has a shot in Smash like Goku. He's also just as iconic.

 

[Cap’nKazam]

I have to say, the thought of seeing BatKirby in a cute little cape and cowl flinging batarangs at people aaalmost makes me reconsider my only-video-game-characters-in-Smash rule.

 

[Shin F.]

Sailor Moon is basically equal to Goku in my eyes, and I'd have no problem seeing one or both of them. The only reason I'd expect to see Goku first is because he's generally more popular these days.

 

[Quillion]

I dunno. I sometimes get the feeling Nintendo needs Sakurai more than Sakurai needs Nintendo. Smash Bros. is his brainchild, and nobody has any idea what it would even look like without him. As Reggie said it: "in the end it’s [Sakurai's] decision to make." That's not a bad thing, I think.

The folks over at Sakurai's old company have been able to make a renaissance of the Kirby series after he left, and that period lasted over the course of three main games, with the fourth being just average at worst.

The Smash series could very well continue with HAL if they wanted to, especially since they have been good at celebrating every aspect of Kirby's history in Star Allies. They can extend their level of tribute to other Nintendo series.

 

[NintenJen]

I have to say, the thought of seeing BatKirby in a cute little cape and cowl flinging batarangs at people aaalmost makes me reconsider my only-video-game-characters-in-Smash rule.

That would be hilarious and amazing at the same time. Maybe people should be supporting Batman instead just for this, lol.

 

[Quillion]

Yes, I know Goku has made appearances in video games... but so has Batman. I guess by that logic, Batman has a shot in Smash like Goku. He's also just as iconic.

Well, like I said: Batman has a storied history of fun video games, and then he exploded as a video game icon with the Arkham quadrilogy.

It's not exactly different from the demand for Goku to be in Smash on the grounds of the Xenoverse series and FighterZ being acclaimed games in their own right even after a long history of good ones.

So yeah, if DC wants to ink out a deal to put Batman in Smash, they'll do it.

 

[timrtabor123]

Well, like I said: Batman has a storied history of fun video games, and then he exploded as a video game icon with the Arkham quadrilogy.

It's not exactly different from the demand for Goku to be in Smash on the grounds of the Xenoverse series and FighterZ being acclaimed games in their own right even after a long history of good ones.

So yeah, if DC wants to ink out a deal to put Batman in Smash, they'll do it.

I'd argue Batman is a little more relevant to video games since many games copied Arkhamn's combat system. Hell on a related note I feel like translating "Arkhamn combat"could lead to an interesting moveset/mechanic for the caped crusader.

 

[Cap’nKazam]

The folks over at Sakurai's old company have been able to make a renaissance of the Kirby series after he left, and that period lasted over the course of three main games, with the fourth being just average at worst.

The Smash series could very well continue with HAL if they wanted to, especially since they have been good at celebrating every aspect of Kirby's history in Star Allies. They can extend their level of tribute to other Nintendo series.

Maybe. Kirby's a little bit easier to put together though, and a lot more interpretable as a franchise. With Smash, there's a lot of fine-tuning and balancing that Sakurai takes on alone, even well into the night. He's even tried passing his work off to other people, and it hasn't worked out. The dude actually moved next to the game studio to make up time because there simply wasn't enough to get the work done that he needed to do for Smash, and couldn't waste time on a train every morning. I think people tend to vastly underestimate the amount of blood-sweat-and-tears Sakurai's had to put into each iteration to make it what it is. Kirby's a single character, but Smash Bros. is a world of them.

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013...dynamic-complete-fairness-has-no-personality/

Also, I don’t think Nintendo’s into cash-grabbiness at the expense of game’s integrity as much as other companies. I mean, we’re literally talking about a company that makes cardboard box games and happily in the clutches of Mr. “a rushed game is bad forever” Miyamoto (and Yoshiaki Koizumi). They seem mostly interested in doing their own thing. Of anyone in the game industry, they seem like the kind of people who’d see bribery as an insult, or nuisance. Nintendo IS its reputation: the corporation with a heart, run by businessfolk who are gamers at heart.

 

[1FC0]

Why does Goku's origin matter? He is a popular fighter with lots of moves to draw a nice canon moveset from. Personally I just want a game with cool characters that is fun to play. I do not get why Goku's manga origins would bother anyone at all.

 

[Zyphyris]

I'm not exactly an advocate for Goku in Smash, and this is probably going to be redundant (unless no one else brought this up before), but there's a difference between dreams/fantasies and realistic wishes. There's nothing necessarily wrong with wanting a non-video game character (or any character in general) in Smash, so long as you have a realistic view of and acknowledge their actual chances of getting in the game.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, Sakurai has said no Manga characters, even those who appeared in video games. But considering the fact that he changed his mind about Ridley, Pac-Man and Villager and the video game only statement was during the Smash Ballot, he could very well lift the "no other media characters" rule for Ultimate. He wanted to put James Bond in Melee, so he was clearly open to non-video game characters at the time. But the difficulties in acquiring permission from MGM and Pierce Brosnan and the Ian Fleming estate might be why Sakurai would be reluctant to include someone who is owned by more than a game company.

 

[Quillion]

But considering the fact that he changed his mind...

It doesn't matter if he changed his mind on something else. Give us reasons why he should change his mind.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

It doesn't matter if he changed his mind on something else. Give us reasons why he should change his mind.

To pander to the fans who want him in and to troll the purists who don't.

 

[Quillion]

To pander to the fans who want him in and to troll the purists who don't.

We could say the same thing about Mario getting Cappy, Ganondorf getting magic projectiles, or Zelda using the Light Bow in her normal moveset, but those aren't going to happen.

 

[Arcadenik]

It doesn't matter if he changed his mind on something else. Give us reasons why he should change his mind.

Okay, I will give you a reason why he should change his mind.

Goku in Smash will destroy the "no anime characters" rule and pave the way for Team Rocket Meowth, Nester from Nintendo Power, and Captain N from the 1980s cartoon and I want those three characters in Smash, especially Meowth.

 

[Quillion]

Okay, I will give you a reason why he should change his mind.

Goku in Smash will destroy the "no anime characters" rule and pave the way for Team Rocket Meowth, Nester from Nintendo Power, and Captain N from the 1980s cartoon and I want those three characters in Smash, especially Meowth.

Well, he will, but that's equally a reason to want him in and not to want him in.

 

[Arcadenik]

Well, he will, but that's equally a reason to want him in and not to want him in.

I don't want Goku but I will use him as a means to an end if I have to. I really want my cat in Smash, dammit, and I want the detractors to lose that "no anime characters" ammunition.

 

[Q-Long]

Just laugh, or joke around with em. A close friend of mine is convinced Goku is in because of some apparent reference in the K Rool trailer. He would have a pretty cool moveset tbh. Though I doubt it will ever happen.

If Goku gets in I'll have a toast for every dead Nintendo franchise (from Chibi Robo to Advance Wars to Mach Rider) to ones represented like Punch-Out and F-Zero) that might have had a chance of a revival like Kid Icarus did or Metroid recently. Because Sakurai is going to put in Ichigo and Naruto and the rest of Shounen Jump over em.

I can atleast hope for some Gundam or Fist of the North Star if it happens though, that would be cool.

 

[Vermilion]

I have nothing against people who want Goku in Smash. People who support Goku in Smash or think he has a chance, however... I regard as either ignorant or unintelligent.

 

[Cap’nKazam]

Well, Sakurai has said no Manga characters, even those who appeared in video games. But considering the fact that he changed his mind about Ridley, Pac-Man and Villager and the video game only statement was during the Smash Ballot, he could very well lift the "no other media characters" rule for Ultimate. He wanted to put James Bond in Melee, so he was clearly open to non-video game characters at the time. But the difficulties in acquiring permission from MGM and Pierce Brosnan and the Ian Fleming estate might be why Sakurai would be reluctant to include someone who is owned by more than a game company.

Just to clarify once and for all, did Sakurai ever make an actual rule about Ridley, Pac-Man, and Villager? These are the only references I could find that would be relevant to Ridley's dilemma.

"I think that would probably be impossible.[laughs] If we had put our best efforts into it, we may have been able to do it. But he might have been a little slow. Would that have been all right?"

and

“I definitely know that Ridley’s a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made Ridley as a fighter, it wouldn’t be Ridley any longer. It’d have to be shrunk down, or its wings reduced in size, or be unable to fly around freely. ...Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to. ...If I don’t stick to that thought, then we’d have to lower the quality or break the balance of the game. Something that goes way off spec could break the entire game.”

This seems to be less about a philosophical rule, and more about a technical limitation. Sakurai expressed confidence he could make Ridley work if he and his team buckled down and made a concerted effort, but that he didn't know how to make it work at the time. This is different from a philosophical statement about what he believes Smash Bros. is supposed to be, such as the remarks he made in reference to manga characters:

“Manga characters will not join the battle (obviously). While it’s true that we’ve added characters from other companies,
It’s not going to be anyone and everyone."

Ridley's problem was a technical problem, not a philosophical problem. So to say that Sakurai might add Goku because he "changed his mind" about characters like Ridley or Villager seems to me to be a false equivocation. Sakurai's never given any indication that he has any intention of changing Smash Bros.' identity. On the contrary, these characters only came about because they found a way to conform to Smash Bros.' identity. In his statement on Ridley: "I definitely know that Ridley’s a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made Ridley as a fighter, it wouldn’t be Ridley any longer" and "Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to..." - we have strong evidence of just how much Sakurai cares about the philosophical integrity of the game he has created, even if it is at the expense of what the fans want. When Ridley finally happened, the character was made to work in such a way that satisfies the essence of the character, and feels natural for Smash (an incredible accomplishment, honestly).

Smash Bros. is about Nintendo. Every character that has been introduced so far has had a part in shaping (or being shaped by) Nintendo's rich legacy, in one form or another. I do not see how Goku, or any other fourth party character, contributes to preserving this focus. Introduce Goku as a viable contender, and people's attention will shift from the likes of Lip, Balloon Fighter, Takamaru, Mach Rider, and other untapped goldmines of Nintendo's rich legacy, and become saturated by empty requests for characters like Shrek or Batman - which sap away Nintendo's spotlight and have little to do with Nintendo itself, and turn Smash Bros. into something entirely different. It is good that the focus on Nintendo is largely still preserved on these boards - it made the likes of Pit, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt - and Fire Emblem itself - among others, possible (even probable) in the first place.

To clarify, I definitely think there is a place in gaming to see a showdown between Mario and Goku happen, and I don't have anything against Goku fans (secretly, I think it would be a lot of fun to see Goku in Smash). But I don't believe Super Smash Bros. is the game to make that happen. And I believe the game itself would stand to lose a lot of its soul if it were to happen.

 

[Q-Long]

The one thing Sony and Microsoft fans would hurl towards Nintendo fans during the Wii generation the most that had the biggest impression on me, was "Nintendo just has Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon". Smash Bros would no longer be the portfolio that contradicts that. ^

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Okay, I will give you a reason why he should change his mind.

Goku in Smash will destroy the "no anime characters" rule and pave the way for Team Rocket Meowth, Nester from Nintendo Power, and Captain N from the 1980s cartoon and I want those three characters in Smash, especially Meowth.

Considering how much of the Pokémon stuff is based on the Pokémon anime, Team Rocket's Meowth has a decent chance of getting in. Lucario is very clearly Sir Aaron's Lucario from the eighth movie because that's the only Lucario that talks outside of Mystery Dungeon (Where everyone talks), and he is voiced by Sean Schemmel like the movie. In fact, all the Pokémon have their voices from the anime. The anime version of Misty got a trophy in Melee. So if Meowth ever becomes a newcomer and he has the personality of the one that hangs with Jessie and James, that would actually seem very normal for Smash.

 

[Luigifan18]

Considering how much of the Pokémon stuff is based on the Pokémon anime, Team Rocket's Meowth has a decent chance of getting in. Lucario is very clearly Sir Aaron's Lucario from the eighth movie because that's the only Lucario that talks outside of Mystery Dungeon (Where everyone talks), and he is voiced by Sean Schemmel like the movie. In fact, all the Pokémon have their voices from the anime. The anime version of Misty got a trophy in Melee. So if Meowth ever becomes a newcomer and he has the personality of the one that hangs with Jessie and James, that would actually seem very normal for Smash.

Yeah, but all of those characters originated from video games (well, the species of Pokémon, not the specific individuals).

 

[Oddball]

Okay, I will give you a reason why he should change his mind.

Goku in Smash will destroy the "no anime characters" rule and pave the way for Team Rocket Meowth, Nester from Nintendo Power, and Captain N from the 1980s cartoon and I want those three characters in Smash, especially Meowth.

I want those characters too, but there's still a huge difference between them and Goku.

Nester, Captain N, and Meowth, those are character belong to Nintendo. They are already part of the Nintendo family. Sure, they might be the weird cousins that nobody ever talks about part of the family, but having them show up to the family reunion still isn't out of the question.

Goku ... Goku isn't Nintendo. He's not part of the family. He isn't good friends with the family like Megaman or Simon Belmont could be considered. He's not a guy that showed up, worked for the family buisness for a while, and really accomplished something to help them out like James Bond or the Ninja Turtles.

Goku is the foreigner that occasionally comes over to visit. Nintendo isn't his home. It's not where he works. It's not something he's really helped out with.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oddball I don't want Goku but I will use him as a means to an end if it is necessary to take away the "no anime characters" argument from the detractors. I am sick and tired of detractors saying "no anime characters" to Team Rocket and, to a lesser extent, Captain N.

 

[Deleted member]

I would shake my head, and then tell them to play Jump Ultimate Stars.

 

[Quillion]

I would shake my head, and then tell them to play Jump Ultimate Stars.

But why would you need to be such a gatekeeper when we just want to see childhood icons fight other childhood icons? I bet both Nintendo and Shueisha both see the value in it at least.

Shueisha is just a million-dollar contract away from putting Goku in Smash. They just need to talk to Nintendo about it.