How do you react to people who genuinely want Dragon Ball's Goku in Smash Bros.?

[Deleted member]

I honestly don't know how long this thread will last, or if the moderators would approve of me discussing this, but it is an unfortunate reality we must live in.

I do not know when the idea came for Goku to appear in Smash Bros., but I noticed it being serious (and not as a meme like Shrek because people misunderstood Shulk) during the last game(s) 4-5 years ago on communities like Twitter and GameFAQs. And, while I don't like being stodgy and all that, it does bug me whenever people suggest they should put Goku in because people insist Goku should be in.

Here's a little backstory of mine; when I was much younger, having discovered the joys of Melee (but not being able to play it at home, alas), I fantasized about a new Smash Bros.. This was around 2003-04, way before Brawl was a thing, and I imagined "fourth party" fighters in the game for fun, only to quickly realize as I got older that it was not only unfeasible, but it seemed to violate all sorts of unwritten rules. Granted, these days, people will point out how Mortal Kombat has various horror movies and DC Comics in their universe, and the recent Negan appearance in Tekken 7, but putting the most recognizable anime character in a video game featuring nothing but video game characters seems to rub me the wrong way. Plus, those fighting games are their own self-contained universes, while Smash Bros.'s identity is that it's a melting pot of game franchises together.

I don't interact directly with these people, but I do passively argue against the notion.

 

[wiiztec]

Draw my gun and wait for them to make the first move.

 

[timrtabor123]

I actually would love for the non-video game character rule to be lifted so we can collectively stop focusing so much on likelihood and more on what would make an interesting character.

 

[Dixie Kong]

When I was younger I wished Captain Jack Sparrow and Davy Jones would be characters. If Smash HAD to have fourth party characters, those would be my ideal picks, although I would rather Nintendo stay away from those.

 

[Untouch]

I think it's fair to want him in, he'd have an interesting moveset.
Expecting him in on the other hand is whacky.

 

[The Prankster 16]

I secretly want him only for the memes and moveset potential, but other than that I just sigh.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The Dragon Ball franchise did not originate from a video game, so I really don't understand why people want Goku (the Dragon Ball character) in the Super Smash Bros. series.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

I just tell them to go play Dragon Ball FighterZ, where they can run a team consisting of Goku, Goku, and Goku. You'd think that would suffice.

 

[ProfPeanut]

I just tell them to go play Dragon Ball FighterZ, where they can run a team consisting of Goku, Goku, and Goku. You'd think that would suffice.

Essentially this. Goku doesn't gain anything by trying to fit into Smash's mechanics.

 

[Idon]

"I think you're dumb, but I'll happily throw down with you on FighterZ where we got 3 Gokus which are all fun as hell"

 

[grizby2]

I chuckle at them, and say "goku WOULD like to be in smash.. wouldn't he?"

 

[nintenplayer]

Hey, at least it's not Shrek.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Goku's pretty boring honestly moveset wise. I wouldn't even classify him as the most interesting fighter in Dragonball. The humans and Piccolo always have and always will have more interesting abilities than the saiyans.

Infinite flight would have to be removed and watching him fall to his death would feel less true to his character than shrinking Ridley a tiny bit down.

Lucario already does most the stuff Goku would do; a counter after image move, kamehamehas, a super form, aura/ki manipulation. Putting Goku in will make Lucario feel a little redundant to me.

Also Goku's the face of another massive fighting crossover game with the Shonen Jump gang.
Him vs. Mario isn't exactly a match up I've always desired to see either.
I guess some may want to see Sonic vs. Goku maybe due to their super forms but there's no one IN Smash that people constantly used to pit him against in playground arguments or that could be considered a rival of some sorts to him. At least vs. Luffy he's got 'most popular manga' or against Saitama or even Superman he'd have the strongest in the universe fight.

"Hey guys, who would win? Goku or Princess Peach?" is something I can't fathom anyone ever asking for.

 

[Arthur97]

Dragon Ball is not first and foremost, a video game franchise. Honestly, I probably react with a mixture of annoyance and anger. Maybe also some dread. I really don't want their complaining to get him in.

 

[Freecs]

Mickey Mouse should get in before Goku.

 

[Metalbro]

I'll say "right on"

goku would be a great addition to smash

 

[Amiibo Doctor]

Mickey Mouse should get in before Goku.

Inb4 Mickey Mouse

Yeah, I can't see Goku being a reasonable addition to Smash. I say that as someone who legitimately wants Shrek, and not just for the memes. We'd get a Shrek amiibo, man. Shrek. As an amiibo.

 

[smashingDoug]

I don’t get mad I just ignore it, however kid Goku from the first Dragon ball with his tail and powerpole would be fun to use in a fighting game like Smash

And Dragon ball amiibos might be cool

But sadly people who boycott this game if Goku made it in

 

[Carfax]

I love Goku cause he triggers smashers so much.

 

[splat]

I really don’t like this ‘holier than thou’ attitude when it comes to wishlists. I mean, I made a bunch of stock icons and got so many weird requests for characters I hadn’t even heard of.

Why are we collectively okay with people supporting a side character from that one Japan-only game on Playstation 2 with 100 sales, but supporting Goku is bad? I don’t care much for a playable Goku, but I don’t get this negative bandwagon at all. Let people vouch for whoever they want.

 

[osby]

They must really like both Goku and Smash.

 

[Barbasol]

There's one thing that is constantly true about Smash Bros character rules - they keep getting broken. When they added Snake and Sonic that turned everything on its head, then again with Cloud? Who never even appeared in a Nintendo console? Adding a very prominent Japanese fighting character who originated in an anime but has a long running series of successful fighting games - I don't actually think it's out of the new landscape of possibility.

It's a wild new world out there

 

[Arthur97]

There's one thing that is constantly true about Smash Bros character rules - they keep getting broken. When they added Snake and Sonic that turned everything on its head, then again with Cloud? Who never even appeared in a Nintendo console? Adding a very prominent Japanese fighting character who originated in an anime but has a long running series of successful fighting games - I don't actually think it's out of the new landscape of possibility.

It's a wild new world out there

Even Sakurai keeps mentioning gaming. It is a game about gaming. Even if I think it should stick closer to the Nintendo roots. Which, granted, most of the roster is still Nintendo or has some connection to it.

 

[Barbasol]

Even Sakurai keeps mentioning gaming. It is a game about gaming.

So I agree with you, I think it's always been a celebration of gaming. But I was wrong about Cloud being on the same level of Goku so I am totally ready to be wrong! Haha

 

[Arthur97]

So I agree with you, I think it's always been a celebration of gaming. But I was wrong about Cloud being on the same level of Goku so I am totally ready to be wrong! Haha

Cloud is a video game character at least. And there is a difference between being a character in a video game and a video game character. Batman has been in video games, but he is a comic book character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Even Sakurai keeps mentioning gaming. It is a game about gaming.

And unlike the fan "rules" that have been broken, Sakurai has actually stated that one of his rules for third-party characters is "no manga characters."So that part isn't some made-up assumption.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I don't really want him in because there are other candidates I like more, but you guys need to accept the reality that there are no "rules" of what can be a Smash character. First it was Nintendo 1st party only, then suddenly it was anyone that appeared on a Nintendo console, then after Cloud it's suddenly anyone that has relations to Nintendo...i mean, it doesn't take a genius to notice the pattern there that the goalposts keep getting wider and wider, and to pretend like suddenly they will stiffen and fix where it is now (Originated from a video game) is a bit naive.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Maximum eyeroll.

 

[Chiroz]

But sadly people who boycott this game if Goku made it in

There's also people who would be interested in trying out the game just because Goku is in Smash though.

I really don’t like this ‘holier than thou’ attitude when it comes to wishlists. I mean, I made a bunch of stock icons and got so many weird requests for characters I hadn’t even heard of.

Why are we collectively okay with people supporting a side character from that one Japan-only game on Playstation 2 with 100 sales, but supporting Goku is bad? I don’t care much for a playable Goku, but I don’t get this negative bandwagon at all. Let people vouch for whoever they want.

People like to pretend they know more than others or that their opinion is more valid. During Brawl speculation days Cloud was a big request by fans, having had no 3rd parties announced yet, people had the exact same reaction to Cloud that they have to Goku today (NO CLOUD, that would ruin the game. Please no Cloud. People who ask for Cloud are idiots).

Even if you can objectively set Cloud and Goku apart, the fact is that once Megaman was revealed, people stopped seeing Cloud as "that impossible". Sure, he was still considered extremely unlikely, but all of this hate stopped. Once Cloud was announced all of a sudden, most of his haters dissapeared (stopped being vocal would be a more correct term, they are still around somewhere).

 

[YoshiandToad]

I really don’t like this ‘holier than thou’ attitude when it comes to wishlists. I mean, I made a bunch of stock icons and got so many weird requests for characters I hadn’t even heard of.

Why are we collectively okay with people supporting a side character from that one Japan-only game on Playstation 2 with 100 sales, but supporting Goku is bad? I don’t care much for a playable Goku, but I don’t get this negative bandwagon at all. Let people vouch for whoever they want.

Honestly Splat I'd love to have your attitude.
I actually love Dragonball a lot, probably my third biggest fandom after Smash Bros. and One Piece, but breaking that last rule of 'video game crossover' will cause some concerns for me;

a.) Deprioritise Nintendo characters further, i.e. your Ninty faves now not only have to compete with super iconic video game legends, but popular anime cast members too like Naruto, Luffy, Saitama, Natsu, Ichigo, Eren, Toriko, Sailor Moon etc. There's only so much time in development per game to spend on newcomers, and I feel the Nintendo and video game cast would get the short end of the stick since there's so many big names from anime left to be had after Goku busts that wall down.

b.) Where do we go from the anime invasion? The flood gates to all manner of things are now open; first it stopped being all about Nintendo in Brawl, then it stopped being Video game legends that have history with Nintendo in Sm4sh thanks to Cloud(who as a character at best has a stretch of a relationship to Nintendo) and Bayonetta(who isn't really a legendary icon like the other third parties) and if we include Goku it won't even be about video games anymore.
The following game after Goku's inclusion could stop being about 'popular japanese culture' or whatever we'll inevitably try to justify the alteration with as Superman gets added to fight against Goku, and then people will want DC vs. Marvel so in comes Hulk, Batman, Spiderman, Wonder Woman, Iron Man, Nightwing, etc to face off against each other...

...I guess the question I'm concerned about is how diluted will the original concept go after Goku enters the fray?
It sounds a little silly but I can honestly say I can see a time in the future where Smash Bros. eventually becomes as confused and messy a concept as MUGEN the more of these rules are...well...smashed. Personally I'd rather have something a bit more concise than that, and I think others may feel the same.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

People are entitled to hope for any character they want, so I don't react to it unless specifically asked about it.

As for the character himself, I love DBZ, but I don't really find myself wanting him. For many characters I love the crossover potential of Smash, but for some reason imagining Goku vs Mario doesn't do anything for me, I'd much rather play DBFZ then and play 3 Gokus vs 3 Vegetas or whatever. Like, even if we said that Goku would be the only non-video game character to ever appear in Smash it still doesn't really excite me, I'm really not sure why, but it just doesn't. I guess because I view Smash as a sort of video game museum the concept of Goku is just so far detached from what excites me about the series.

Of course taking the nasty can of worms it'd open into consideration makes me downright hope it doesn't happen, but again, I'm not going to get in people who want him's faces about it.

 

[Johnknight1]

People can want whatever they want.

We're past bottom of the 20th barrel characters at this point. People can ask for whatever that isn't some dumb meme "because memes" now.

And Goku is a fine character. He's in an amazing fighting game ATM that is taking over the FGC and he's got a ton of moves to draw upon as a martial arts anime character.

Like why is that weird but people who never played Muramasa Castle or Panel de Pon (both obscure and very forgettable games) asking for Takamaru and Lip?

How is asking for Goku, a multimedia household name weird but asking for like 10 Kid Icarus characters isn't weird? Or people's weird obsession with lolis like Ashley, Virdi, etc?

Like y'all... we're crazy. Embrace all the craziness of speculation and respect ideas you don't like. It can't be weirder than people asking for freaking Non-Specific Action Figure or freaking Disktun after all...

...or how me and a group of people created a fake leak about Kal-MAS or whatever from some Namco Bandai game and now people won't shut up about how they want it!

 

[lucasla]

I actually think the character fits. Goku is not only an anime character, he is also a character in many fighting games based on Dragon Ball. And actually, the
strangeness of having Goku in Smash is what makes him a very possible character to me. It's just like the Mercedes cars in Mario Kart 8. It actually doesn't belong there, but just because of that, it's so awesome to have it there.
Just imagine... in this game you can pick Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, and... GOKU. - What? - Yes, Goku. Makes no sense right? - Yes - That's the point!

 

[SamDunk]

If his video games were more popular I wouldn't be totally against it (I've read that Sakurai considered James Bond for Melee because of how popular Goldeneye 007 for N64 was, and I actually think that could've been kinda cool), but Goku doesn't really have an identity as a video game character. Smash should be a celebration of gaming, and that shouldn't be cluttered.

 

[oxyborb]

There's been a Dragon Ball game on nearly every Nintendo system, including as far back as the NES (the year 1986!)

Goku has been in more games for Nintendo systems than many of the characters in Smash (actually, this could even be MOST if you tried to really quantify it). He DOES have a video game identity, a huge one in fact. I'd say he's deserving, yeah. But also, he's got awesome abilities and moves. He'd be fun to play as. He's upbeat, positive, and fits in with the Nintendo style. Namco owns DBZ rights, I believe, and Pacman is already in...

Seems like a good fit to me. Nah, we should add more Fire Emblem characters.

 

[Yuya-Noboru]

I'm wondering if they are joking or just have an extra chromosome to be honest.

 

[aarchak]

I like Goku, but I don't want him in Smash. Just stick to FighterZ for playing Goku. Yeah I get that he's popular, has a presence in video games, and has interesting moveset potential, but he just doesn't fit in Smash. Keep this a celebration of video game characters.

 

[Fell God]

Nah, we should add more Fire Emblem characters.

This but unironically

 

[staindgrey]

My brother is one such person who would genuinely main Goku if he were in. He's in my "eh" pile, where I really wouldn't mind if he's in, but I'm not really excited about the prospect either. I've had so many chances to fight as Goku in various games over the last ~15 years.

If Goku really is getting in, I seriously hope it's Kid Goku, just to stick it to people. Power pole, more hand-to-hand martial arts and comedy, with that infectious Goku laugh:

 

[splat]

Honestly Splat I'd love to have your attitude.
I actually love Dragonball a lot, probably my third biggest fandom after Smash Bros. and One Piece, but breaking that last rule of 'video game crossover' will cause some concerns for me;

a.) Deprioritise Nintendo characters further, i.e. your Ninty faves now not only have to compete with super iconic video game legends, but popular anime cast members too like Naruto, Luffy, Saitama, Natsu, Ichigo, Eren, Toriko, Sailor Moon etc. There's only so much time in development per game to spend on newcomers, and I feel the Nintendo and video game cast would get the short end of the stick since there's so many big names from anime left to be had after Goku busts that wall down.

b.) Where do we go from the anime invasion? The flood gates to all manner of things are now open; first it stopped being all about Nintendo in Brawl, then it stopped being Video game legends that have history with Nintendo in Sm4sh thanks to Cloud(who as a character at best has a stretch of a relationship to Nintendo) and Bayonetta(who isn't really a legendary icon like the other third parties) and if we include Goku it won't even be about video games anymore.
The following game after Goku's inclusion could stop being about 'popular japanese culture' or whatever we'll inevitably try to justify the alteration with as Superman gets added to fight against Goku, and then people will want DC vs. Marvel so in comes Hulk, Batman, Spiderman, Wonder Woman, Iron Man, Nightwing, etc to face off against each other...

...I guess the question I'm concerned about is how diluted will the original concept go after Goku enters the fray?
It sounds a little silly but I can honestly say I can see a time in the future where Smash Bros. eventually becomes as confused and messy a concept as MUGEN the more of these rules are...well...smashed. Personally I'd rather have something a bit more concise than that, and I think others may feel the same.

I very much agree on both of your concerns. If it were up to me, we’d pretty much still have only Nintendo characters across the board; almost all of the characters topping my personal wish list are from Nintendo. Bayonetta is the only character I don’t like in Smash, ot because she’s busted in 4, but because I feel like she hasn’t earned her ‘right’ as a non-Nintendo guest character just yet. I don’t like Smash Flash due to the amount of anime characters, as it does make the game feel like Mugen like you mentioned.

Even then, I just really don’t understand the insanely hateful comments, like Yuya-Noboru’s just a few replies above this one. Why would you want to say such a thing to someone expressing their wishes? At the end of the day, it’s just a pipe dream, just like the earlier mentioned side character from that niche PS2 game. Why fans of the former are singled out and berated, often by fans of the second too, is just baffling.

Live and let live. The pre-Smash launh period is among my favorite times to be browsing the internet, but it’s the attitude of these people that suck out all the positive energy.