How do you react to people who genuinely want Dragon Ball's Goku in Smash Bros.?

[BronzeGreekGod]

Your views on the topic are bias

Oh, and about Goku being the ambassador... you make it sound like he's head and shoulders above everyone else. He's one of the Ambassadors. Others being Naruto, Monkey D. Luffy from One Piece, Sailor Moon and Astro Boy. He's just part of a group. Far less important than you make him out to be.

But.. Goku was the ambassador of Japan at the olimpics

 

[8-peacock-8]

I just go "ok" and move on. Not much to say on it. Who they want in Smash is who they actually want.

I think the reason why he's not going to get in is the legal issues being a lot more complicated with anime characters. (Do you go to Toriyama and Bandai? Or just Bandai? Or just Toriyama? Toei is hard to work with. etc.)

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

You did have one good point though and one I'm going to take you up on. When people ask for dumb crap, ignore them. With that said, I'm done with this conversation.

You sound really butthurt man. Are you ok? Was transformers your favourite show or something? It was a good show, but don't tell me you like the movies. That's the most nonsensical dribble I've ever had the displeasure to watch.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

I really think we should accept every crazy character people want. The non-game character ban is just limiting people who want to express themselves. And it causes the whole case with Sora to be really awkward because he's a video game character in a world of movie characters that can't get their own threads in Smash and, Sora would open the possibility of Disney characters appearing in Smash. The fact that Sora has only appeared in games is what allowed him to get a thread, but why can't Starkiller get a thread? You know Darth Vader's Apprentice first appeared in the game Star Wars: The Force Unleashed? It would be awesome to play as a Jedi in Smash under the loophole of being a video game character. But Sora is the only one related to a non-gaming brand to allow a thread. And that just bothers me. I want to support Sora and I would stop bashing him as soon as the non-game character ban is lifted. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Spongebob, Mickey Mouse could be great in Smash if we were open to non-game characters.

 

[Yosher]

Okay first of all. Reading the OP. NEGAN IS IN TEKKEN?! I didn't watch EVO and hadn't heard anything about it until reading it here and as a big fan of The Walking Dead this caught me as a huge surprise. If I had a system that played Tekken 7 (PC not counted, I'm a console gamer) I might've gotten it just for Negan honestly. And I don't really care much for Tekken otherwise, but that's more because, aside from Smash Bros, I don't really care much for fighting games to begin with.

That said, onto the topic at hand (apologies for going off-topic for a bit, I just really wanted to speak my mind on the above matter for a moment), Goku getting into Smash Bros feels like it would be a similarly big surprise as Negan getting into Tekken (to me). That said, I also think Goku would fit into Smash Bros a little more than Negan does in Tekken, and really, memes aside (I'm really not a person for memes) I don't think I would really mind having Goku, if he were to actually make it in.. somehow. That's mostly because I watched a fair bunch of DBZ as a kid though, and he DOES have a good amount of appearances on Nintendo consoles. I'd welcome him with open arms really, even if I'm not a full-on supporter for him.

When I see people actually rooting for Goku though, whether it's genuine or not, I just can't help but wonder how genuine they really are over the matter because of the meme status this has gotten to over time and frankly I find it rather annoying.

 

[Tollhouse]

I really think we should accept every crazy character people want. The non-game character ban is just limiting people who want to express themselves. And it causes the whole case with Sora to be really awkward because he's a video game character in a world of movie characters that can't get their own threads in Smash and, Sora would open the possibility of Disney characters appearing in Smash. The fact that Sora has only appeared in games is what allowed him to get a thread, but why can't Starkiller get a thread? You know Darth Vader's Apprentice first appeared in the game Star Wars: The Force Unleashed? It would be awesome to play as a Jedi in Smash under the loophole of being a video game character. But Sora is the only one related to a non-gaming brand to allow a thread. And that just bothers me. I want to support Sora and I would stop bashing him as soon as the non-game character ban is lifted. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Spongebob, Mickey Mouse could be great in Smash if we were open to non-game characters.

But would they ever include Starkiller over Darth Vader or Luke? Despite sticking to the only video game character rule, that character choice would make no sense at all. Plus Star Wars is a movie franchise first so I don't think Starkiller and Sora are in the same boat.

And no one is stopping anyone from expressing themselves. There are more fanmade rosters out there than realistic ones if you google them. I think fans just want there to be some artistic integrity in these games and for Sakurai to uphold that. Characters like Goku, Homer Simpson, Shrek, CatDog, Jack Sparrow, Winnie the Pooh, etc; they're what you see on joke rosters and that's pretty much the consensus of the smash community.

Crossovers of any kind have to have a line drawn somewhere.

 

[Enchess]

I really think we should accept every crazy character people want. The non-game character ban is just limiting people who want to express themselves. And it causes the whole case with Sora to be really awkward because he's a video game character in a world of movie characters that can't get their own threads in Smash and, Sora would open the possibility of Disney characters appearing in Smash. The fact that Sora has only appeared in games is what allowed him to get a thread, but why can't Starkiller get a thread? You know Darth Vader's Apprentice first appeared in the game Star Wars: The Force Unleashed? It would be awesome to play as a Jedi in Smash under the loophole of being a video game character. But Sora is the only one related to a non-gaming brand to allow a thread. And that just bothers me. I want to support Sora and I would stop bashing him as soon as the non-game character ban is lifted. Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Spongebob, Mickey Mouse could be great in Smash if we were open to non-game characters.

Jump fans not wanting DC or Marvel comics in Jump Force is just limiting people who want to express themselves. Jump Force's new character announcements should be non-Jump characters from now on.

 

[Quillion]

The whataboutism in this thread is insane. And on both sides at that.

"What about Sakurai changing his mind on Ridley and Villager?"

"What about Namco putting a Walking Dead character in Tekken?"

"What about DC and Marvel characters not showing up in Shonen Jump games?"

"What about Captain Toad and Waddle Dee being boring characters?"

None of this supports the idea of Sakurai breaking the video game character rule. None of this opposes the idea of Sakurai breaking the video game character rule.

If you're going to attack or support this rule, attack or support the actual reasons behind the rule like I did:

It's not going to happen as long as Sakurai remains committed to his "video game characters" rule, but honestly, the reasons why he sticks to it seem outdated.

He did acknowledge that he did consider asking for James Bond back in Melee, but the licensing between EON and Rare put a stop to that. He stated that's the ultimate reason why he only wants characters that debuted in games alone starting with Brawl: the licensing.

But Smash is no longer a fledgling franchise. It has grown into something that everyone wants their character in. Heck, I think Shueisha would pay Nintendo to put Goku in Smash.

So yes, I think if someone from Shueisha walked up to Nintendo with suitcases of money and promised that they would give more to Nintendo as long as they put Goku in Smash... I don't think Sakurai could really refuse at that point.

Just because something happened that one time doesn't mean Sakurai should break or keep this rule.

 

[Enchess]

The whataboutism in this thread is insane. And on both sides at that.

"What about DC and Marvel characters not showing up in Shonen Jump games?"

That one's definitely referring to me. My primary reason for not wanting Goku has to do with theming as stated in earlier post and that Marvel/DC thing was meant to point out how Goku fans also see value in theming (assuming they are interested in Shonen Jump games, which I think is a safe assumption). You never see Shonen Jump fans clamoring for American comic characters. Why is that, if theming really has no value whatsoever (which is what Goku supporters largely argue in relation to Smash)? I think everyone understands the importance of theming when the theme matters to them, but a lot of people pretend it's completely pointless the moment the theme isn't their personal taste.

 

[Smash Lampjaw]

Jack Sparrow

There should be a "Captain" in there somewhere.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

There's just one little problem however...

Goku isn't a video game character

Rob isn't a video game character...
Tell me something I don't know....
Next?
Now you going to justify it by saying but he's Nintendo. So it's okay to have non-video game characters as long they're from Nintendo? I thought it was any non-video game character.

Don't play dumb people. Sakurai is not the one to just add characters just because. If he decided Goku was a worthy pick; he wouldn't add a damn Shrek or Mickey Mouse just because Goku is in. You are talking about the same man that literally ignored Ridley requests for 2 Smash entries in a row and then threw shade on the west when he was revealed by him basically stating"the only reason why he's in is because of the west". Sakurai then mentions he was extremely hard to implement to ensure you know his pain and agony.

 

[Enchess]

Rob isn't a video game character...
Tell me something I don't know....
Next?
Now you going to justify it by saying but he's Nintendo. So it's okay to have non-video game characters as long they're from Nintendo? I thought it was any non-video game character.

Those of us the boards like to label "Nintendo Purists" have a remarkably easy time justifying this. Like stupidly easy time. But honestly, it's not even super hard to justify if you view it as a gaming crossover. It'd be like having a Dualshock playable. Nobody would pretend Dualshock wasn't video game character just because it was video game video game hardware and not a character in software.

Goku is clearly different. Smash is great as a Nintendo Crossover, it's meh as a general gaming crossover, it's flat out terrible if it's a crossover without any theme whatsoever. Like we got Ridley but no Superman? That's ridiculous if it's not even a gaming crossover.

 

[Smash Lampjaw]

Rob isn't a video game character...
Tell me something I don't know....
Next?
Now you going to justify it by saying but he's Nintendo. So it's okay to have non-video game characters as long they're from Nintendo? I thought it was any non-video game character.

It's news to me if ROB doesn't qualify as a video game character.

 

[Tollhouse]

Rob isn't a video game character...
Tell me something I don't know....
Next?
Now you going to justify it by saying but he's Nintendo. So it's okay to have non-video game characters as long they're from Nintendo? I thought it was any non-video game character.

You can justify it by saying he's a part of a Nintendo console which speaks volumes. Can you be more nintendo than that?

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

You can justify it by saying he's a part of a Nintendo console which speaks volumes. Can you be more nintendo than that?

Its not a video game character end of discussion. It doesn't matter what merits RoB has.
See where I'm going? See how outright dismissive it is? Are you admitting bias on non-video game characters now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Its either no non-video game characters or they are allowed because any exceptions means a bias.

Its almost if Sakurai has exceptions to his "rules". The same man who considered James Bond but didn't go through with it largely due to licensing hell added a Toy in Smash.

It doesn't matter if Rob appeared in 40 games; he's not a video game character. He is a toy.

 

[Union of Darkness]

If Goku can be in why not Naruto too? Or Luffy? For that matter what about American comicbook heroes like Batman? Or Spiderman? And if heroes can be in why not some tertiary characters too? What about Krillin?

Do you see where I'm going with this? This is why it should not happen.

 

[Enchess]

Its not a video game character end of discussion. It doesn't matter what merits RoB has.
See where I'm going? See how outright dismissive it is? Are you admitting bias on non-video game characters now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Its either no non-video game characters or they are allowed because any exceptions means a bias.

Its almost if Sakurai has exceptions to his "rules". The same man who considered James Bond but didn't go through with it largely due to licensing hell added a Toy in Smash.

...or if it's a Nintendo crossover ROB is fully consistent and Goku is antithetical, easily 100x more than even Cloud was.

 

[Tollhouse]

Its not a video game character end of discussion. It doesn't matter what merits RoB has.
See where I'm going? See how outright dismissive it is? Are you admitting bias on non-video game characters now. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Its either no non-video game characters or they are allowed because any exceptions means a bias.

Its almost if Sakurai has exceptions to his "rules". The same man who considered James Bond but didn't go through with it largely due to licensing hell added a Toy in Smash.

It doesn't matter if Rob appeared in 40 games; he's not a video game character. He is a toy.

I can eat part of the cake and still keep a piece.

Rob is still related to video gaming and is Nintendo, no? Video game originated characters applies to what 3rd parties would be added for smash. When it comes to nintendo it's obviously going to be treated a little differently because that is kind of what smash's routes are and always have been. They could add a switch console with a face and arms and legs and would still retain what smash is about.

 

[lizard1929]

Rob was designed for Gyromite (a game on NES) and is a part of Nintendo's gaming history.
Goku is a part of anime history. He is a perfectly acceptable candidate if we extend Smash to outside of gaming.

The two aren't comparable. Rob is more easily compared with Mr Game and Watch and has appeared as an Easter Egg in many other gaming franchises.

 

[TylerTheYoshi]

I see them as physical embodiments of the concept of stupidity.

 

[portalmasterJ11]

If Goku gets in it will only escalate from their because then any animated character or any character is pretty much fair game after that so eventually people will get serious about memes eventually and I don't want to see video game characters competing with spot in smash against some weird joke somebody made so letting goku in may just be a harmless request for a cool character what it could mean if he gets in is not something I want.

 

[JarBear]

When I see these kind of topics, forums or videos about this, I admit I roll my eyes mentally. Goku’s origin is not from a video game. I have nothing against Goku ... but please ... move along for realistic candidates. His chances are the same as 007 or Red Riding Hood.

 

[Enchess]

When I see these kind of topics, forums or videos about this, I admit I roll my eyes mentally. Goku’s origin is not from a video game. I have nothing against Goku ... but please ... move along for realistic candidates. His chances are the same as 007 or Red Riding Hood.

Red Riding Hood makes me think of how awesome a Capcom Smash clone would be. Well, as long as my Darkstalkers favorites would be in.

 

[Descended Gaia]

I would ask, Do we WANT another BAYONETTA??!!!

Seriously, Goku may be boring at first glance but if you dig deeper he has a sophisticated moveset that can’t be changed. The same issue with Bayo.

Also wanting Goku in Smash is putting more stress on Sakurai. He already told us about his own health while developing Smash Ultimate. Wanting Goku is going to open the floodgates for people requesting for countless other anime characters.

If Goku gets in, then could we fathom a possibility of Shrek coming in? If Goku gets in then floodgates are just wrenched off their hinges and rules left and right will be broken. Smash Ultimate was enough stress for Sakurai as it is. Imagine someone else having to take that amount of stress. Also, it’ll start an international flame war with how people want their original Smash mains but we’re replaced by characters who aren’t Nintendo video game related.

 

[MSmariosonic]

People don't watch dragon ball because of the games.

They play the games because of the anime.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

You know what I just remembered? I don't know why I completely forgot this. The original smash Bros almost had a non video game character in it. Sakurai almost included james bond. So adding a non video game character is absolutely not outside the spectrum of possibility for Sakurai.

 

[Kirbyfan391]

I'm pleasantly surprised at some of the posts in this thread honestly. Didn't know people positively viewed Goku in Smash!

I have a very cynical view about Smash speculation, it's a bunch of rules and likelihoods but in the end most peoples predictions are far off, there's a whole system to it which is just rigid and boring. Bayonetta was one character I initially disliked a lot, she broke a lot of "rules", but then I saw the beauty in it in how so many people were excited for her, it made me realize Smash is about making those dreams come true, of seeing your favorite character or franchise in this smashing crossover, even if its a "niche" third party recent franchise.

So, even as someone who hasn't seen Dragon Ball(yep) at all, I'm all in for Goku just because it'd be entertaining and worth it to see smash speculation once again be thrown off, where the impossible becomes possible, and hopefully usher in a new era where people are more concerned with how cool or unique a character is rather than how "likely" they are, more like Brawl speculation days. And finally, I liked playing as Goku in SSF2 plus him being in Smash is a meme is well which is cool and good.

 

[Enchess]

I'm pleasantly surprised at some of the posts in this thread honestly. Didn't know people positively viewed Goku in Smash!

I have a very cynical view about Smash speculation, it's a bunch of rules and likelihoods but in the end most peoples predictions are far off, there's a whole system to it which is just rigid and boring. Bayonetta was one character I initially disliked a lot, she broke a lot of "rules", but then I saw the beauty in it in how so many people were excited for her, it made me realize Smash is about making those dreams come true, of seeing your favorite character or franchise in this smashing crossover, even if its a "niche" third party recent franchise.

So, even as someone who hasn't seen Dragon Ball(yep) at all, I'm all in for Goku just because it'd be entertaining and worth it to see smash speculation once again be thrown off, where the impossible becomes possible, and hopefully usher in a new era where people are more concerned with how cool or unique a character is rather than how "likely" they are, more like Brawl speculation days. And finally, I liked playing as Goku in SSF2 plus him being in Smash is a meme is well which is cool and good.

Or we could get a super unexpected and unique Nintendo newcomer that no one sees coming like Mio or Lip and have the same basic effect without breaking the theme of the game. Or if you really really want it to be a surprise, add a third party from an unexpected IP with Nintendo history like TWEWY. Breaking a theme that's very important to a lot of fans (who don't have any other game with the same theme to turn to) just for shock and awe feels like a mean move when shock and awe can be so easily accomplished.

And Goku support isn't about seeing the dream of Goku in a big crossover come true. That dream had come true repeatedly for his fans. If you are concerned with making unrealized crossover dreams come true, then Isaac or Geno or Saki or Lip are all better choices.

Edit: You know, the DBZ game I'll always have the fondest memories of is Super Dragon Ball Z. Why? Because I could play adult Chi-Chi. Not because I could play as Goku or Frieza, who I actually like both of more. But I get to play those two in tons of games.

With Goku, I love him like crazy, but he has had tons of chances to be the one in the spotlight, I don't see any good reason why he should barg into a game where he doesn't even fit the theme and steal the chance for a character who this is their only chance.

I can guarantee Isaac or Lip or Saki in Smash will mean more to their fans than Goku in Smash, because they've never gotten to have their cool crossover before and Goku has. Repeatedly.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The original smash Bros almost had a non video game character in it. Sakurai almost included james bond.

This is misinformation. Sakurai just briefly considered James Bond before dismissing him. He was never "almost in the game"

Showing realistic guns = no good! Character uses an actor’s likeness = no good! Since the original game is based on a movie, getting those rights = no good! He’s Rare’s property = no good! Blocked on all fronts

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Or we could get a super unexpected and unique Nintendo newcomer that no one sees coming like Mio or Lip and have the same basic effect without breaking the theme of the game. Or if you really really want it to be a surprise, add a third party from an unexpected IP with Nintendo history like TWEWY. Breaking a theme that's very important to a lot of fans (who don't have any other game with the same theme to turn to) just for shock and awe feels like a mean move when shock and awe can be so easily accomplished.

And Goku support isn't about seeing the dream of Goku in a big crossover come true. That dream had come true repeatedly for his fans. If you are concerned with making unrealized crossover dreams come true, then Isaac or Geno or Saki or Lip are all better choices.

I agree with what your saying, except for lip and mio cause I duno who they are, which tells me they arent that huge. Goku would be an insane crossover of epic proportions. I'd like isak and Saki to get invery much, I really think geno has to bein this time. But however you cut it, gokowould break the internet, and everyone and their grandmother will be getting a switch if they don't already.

And like I said above, james bond almost made the first game. I woulda been so down for that. Outsiders aren't that out there for smash.

 

[Enchess]

I agree with what your saying, except for lip and mio cause I duno who they are, which tells me they arent that huge. Goku would be an insane crossover of epic proportions. I'd like isak and Saki to get invery much, I really think geno has to bein this time. But however you cut it, gokowould break the internet, and everyone and their grandmother will be getting a switch if they don't already.

And like I said above, james bond almost made the first game. I woulda been so down for that. Outsiders aren't that out there for smash.

I think you are overestimating how much Goku would boost sales. It's not like people who like Goku would automatically buy the game for him. I love Goku. If he's in, it'll actually make me reconsider buying the game at all. I would most likely still end up doing it because I love the gameplay, but this is the only Nintendo crossover fighter I have available and I love that theme. Goku being in damages the theme enough to lower my enjoyment of the game, despite me loving the character.

Plus he opens the floodgates as I still think if he's in Spiderman, Batman, and Mickey all stand legitimate chances for the next Smash. At that point, I will no longer have hope for characters I want (from niche series that can't compete without a theme), ruining speculation, and theme is completely gone, not just badly damaged, so I probably wouldnt get the Smash after Ultimate, at least not at launch.

Huge DB and Goku fan =/= someone who will buy Smash if he's in. It's always risky to alienate long time fans in search of sales from potential new fans. Many series have died from this miscalculation.

 

[Union of Darkness]

I agree with what your saying, except for lip and mio cause I duno who they are, which tells me they arent that huge. Goku would be an insane crossover of epic proportions. I'd like isak and Saki to get invery much, I really think geno has to bein this time. But however you cut it, gokowould break the internet, and everyone and their grandmother will be getting a switch if they don't already.

You're showing your bias quite heavily. If you want to make a convincing argument you should be more informed and objective.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Segata Sanshiro has a bigger chance of becoming a newcomer.

 

[Quillion]

Has anyone else realized yet that James Bond was considered for Melee, yet his "no manga characters" rule was stated in regards to Brawl?

He clearly came up with the "video game characters only" rule after his consideration for James Bond was dismissed. And it still holds to this day.

 

[Oddball]

Even then James Bond had a huge contribution to Nintendo at the time. Golden Eye even outsold Ocarina. In fact, it outsold everything on the 64 except for Mario. It was literally a game people bought the N64 to play.

Goku doesn't have nearly that impact on Nintendo.

 

[Shin F.]

Goku doesn't have nearly that impact on Nintendo.

Neither does Cloud. In fact, he's from a game on a system that specifically was competing against Nintendo. If the rule against non-video game characters were lifted, it should be their impact on gaming as a whole that's considered, not just their impact on Nintendo.

 

[Quillion]

"Has to be on a Nintendo console" wasn't even a rule in the first place. It's only a courtesy to Smash's original purpose, not a real rule.

 

[Oddball]

Neither does Cloud. In fact, he's from a game on a system that specifically was competing against Nintendo. If the rule against non-video game characters were lifted, it should be their impact on gaming as a whole that's considered, not just their impact on Nintendo.

No. However Cloud is the top character from a series that has had huge impacts on Nintendo. That alone shouldd be worth something.

If that isn't enough for you, he's also the Sonic to Link's Mario. There's been a huge fandom rivalry between them in the past and this is a good way to aknowledge and celebrate it.

As for making a huge contribution to gaming in general for non-videogame characters ... I still don't see why Nintendo should celebrate a non-videogame character that has never done anything of note for them. Other videogame characters that have had a huge impact, just not on Nintendo still make a certain amount of sense. It's like if you have an office party and invite competing companies to part with you. There's a sign of friendship and respect there.

Inviting non-videogame characters that have only had impacts else where ... that's more along the line of inviting your competitors next door neighbor. There's just no reason to do so.

I will also say that I'm willing to change myu mind of this if it means getting Atari's E.T. into Smash. I mean, if you are going to make exceptions, they might as well be for something worthwhile.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

This discussion is never gona go anywhere. No one is convincing anyone of anything on either end ofthe spectrum. Everyone needs to agree to disagree. Some ppl like Goku, some don't, bottom line, Sakurai dictates what can and cant bein the game.

 

[MSmariosonic]

No one is convincing anyone of anything on either end ofthe spectrum. Everyone needs to agree to disagree.

It's like the Goku vs Superman debate all over again smh