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How do you all approach Zelda and Snake?
- Thread starter momochuu
- Start date
SmileyStation
Smash Journeyman
with lots of patience.
~Shao~
Smash Ace
On Zelda you can try SH airdodge behind her to u-tilt to get her in the air, just watch out for her lightning kicks.
tigresmasher2
Smash Cadet
float high so that din's fire cannot hit you then drop down and attack with bair or dair.
momochuu
Smash Legend
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- Momochuu
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That's definitely NOT gonna work.
But anyway, do you all think that attempting to outprioritze that Din's Fire while Zelda is on the ground will help at all? I mean even if you do, she can still FSmash or DSmash.
I have some good practice against Zelda, and a bit less against Snake, so I'll let you know what works for me.
It's definitely not what tigresmasher2 said.
For Zelda, the main thing she'll throw at you at a distance is going to be the Din's Fire, as would be expected. Usually empty SHs are good to play mindgames, but in this they really help to approach. SH and then DI towards the Zelda, and if they send out a Din's Fire just time the Air Dodge correctly. Obviously if you're on the ground, shield/sidestep the explosion. For sure don't do a kamikaze-like approach and just dash, the Zelda will eat you up (but I take it you know that, haha). If the Zelda starts playing mindgames feel free to mix in some Final Cutter projectiles to keep her somewhat on the defensive and not allow her to get to comfortable. When you get close, just approach with SHADs and SH'd Bairs, because that's our best bet with the long range.
For Snake, Air Dodge the rockets. They have to be the easiest thing in the game to dodge, because once you do, Snake has the down-time of having to cancel the rocket and then deal with the cool-down lag. Just get over towards him as fast as possible during this time where he can't attack, but watch out for mines or grenades lying around. SHADs are the best bet in this approach too, as grenades will pass straight through you and most the time bounce off the stage, but in staying in the map Snake can't throw anymore out due to the 2 limit. Final Cutter is a must here- Snake has absolutely no way to reflect projectiles and if he shields or sidesteps, this gives you free time to approach once again.
Overall with both, be very patient. Wait until the characters use a laggy move or make a mistake (i.e. letting the rocket go past you and having to cancel it) then approach, but take your time. Both are fairly tough match-ups, so you need to play as cautiously as possible.
Also, pick up their abilities while you're at it and when Kirbycides aren't the best option. Throwing nades back at Snake only makes problems for him and having Nayru's Love against Zelda nullifies Din's Fire, even if it doesn't reflect back.
It's definitely not what tigresmasher2 said.
For Zelda, the main thing she'll throw at you at a distance is going to be the Din's Fire, as would be expected. Usually empty SHs are good to play mindgames, but in this they really help to approach. SH and then DI towards the Zelda, and if they send out a Din's Fire just time the Air Dodge correctly. Obviously if you're on the ground, shield/sidestep the explosion. For sure don't do a kamikaze-like approach and just dash, the Zelda will eat you up (but I take it you know that, haha). If the Zelda starts playing mindgames feel free to mix in some Final Cutter projectiles to keep her somewhat on the defensive and not allow her to get to comfortable. When you get close, just approach with SHADs and SH'd Bairs, because that's our best bet with the long range.
For Snake, Air Dodge the rockets. They have to be the easiest thing in the game to dodge, because once you do, Snake has the down-time of having to cancel the rocket and then deal with the cool-down lag. Just get over towards him as fast as possible during this time where he can't attack, but watch out for mines or grenades lying around. SHADs are the best bet in this approach too, as grenades will pass straight through you and most the time bounce off the stage, but in staying in the map Snake can't throw anymore out due to the 2 limit. Final Cutter is a must here- Snake has absolutely no way to reflect projectiles and if he shields or sidesteps, this gives you free time to approach once again.
Overall with both, be very patient. Wait until the characters use a laggy move or make a mistake (i.e. letting the rocket go past you and having to cancel it) then approach, but take your time. Both are fairly tough match-ups, so you need to play as cautiously as possible.
Also, pick up their abilities while you're at it and when Kirbycides aren't the best option. Throwing nades back at Snake only makes problems for him and having Nayru's Love against Zelda nullifies Din's Fire, even if it doesn't reflect back.
SpikeSpiegel19
Smash Ace
SHAD: Short Hop Aerial Dodge
The problem with playing a good snake player is that they will use a camp approach tactic. Which basically means they play campy but all the time they approach u slowly forcing u to approach them which is the least favorable position for Kirby to b in. Snake and Zelda both out range anything Kirby has (except upB) Snake has UpTilt and Zelda has Fsmash or Neutral B.
So what u can do: Be smart and get close with a running sidestep or in between ur opponent's move, or with a SHAD (try not to use SHAD to much u can get punished for it). Once u get close stay close and counter with grab. Once u get close snake will use neutral A which is very fast to space Kirby. You have to counter with a grab so u dont take the same damage u just did or else u'll never win lol
Hope this helps
The problem with playing a good snake player is that they will use a camp approach tactic. Which basically means they play campy but all the time they approach u slowly forcing u to approach them which is the least favorable position for Kirby to b in. Snake and Zelda both out range anything Kirby has (except upB) Snake has UpTilt and Zelda has Fsmash or Neutral B.
So what u can do: Be smart and get close with a running sidestep or in between ur opponent's move, or with a SHAD (try not to use SHAD to much u can get punished for it). Once u get close stay close and counter with grab. Once u get close snake will use neutral A which is very fast to space Kirby. You have to counter with a grab so u dont take the same damage u just did or else u'll never win lol
Hope this helps
SpikeSpiegel19
Smash Ace
I like ur Sig, i second Ice climbers also (trying to anyway)
Deg222
Smash Journeyman
Basically what Storm92 and what Gonzo said.
I just wanted to add when I fight a Zelda I practically never approach her unless I'm in the middle of a combo. I use a lot of random short hops or back airs high up in the air. On the ground I use a lot of down tilts or forward tilts to get my opponent to approach me. You really just have to be patient against Zelda. I wish I could say the same for Snake but he's a projectile ***** lolz. If you can get Snake to approach you that's great, remember back airs are your friend.
I just wanted to add when I fight a Zelda I practically never approach her unless I'm in the middle of a combo. I use a lot of random short hops or back airs high up in the air. On the ground I use a lot of down tilts or forward tilts to get my opponent to approach me. You really just have to be patient against Zelda. I wish I could say the same for Snake but he's a projectile ***** lolz. If you can get Snake to approach you that's great, remember back airs are your friend.
SpikeSpiegel19
Smash Ace
If perfectly timed. Otherwise Snake's Uptilt wins no matter what, that things range is broken
Fix'd. =/
Stupid Snake.
DarKirby92
Smash Cadet
For Zelda, see if this helps: http://youtube.com/watch?v=MTLQD5RqW04
For Snake, not sure cuz i never really fought a serious Snake before, but be sure to not choose a stage with many platforms in it, that is like mine-heaven for Snakes.
For Snake, not sure cuz i never really fought a serious Snake before, but be sure to not choose a stage with many platforms in it, that is like mine-heaven for Snakes.
Meh, you take his ability to plant mines/remote mines on platforms, but then a flat stage makes it much easier for him to spam nades and rockets.
Give and take.
Battlefield is my favorite against him personally.
SpikeSpiegel19
Smash Ace
The match-up with snake seriously requires the use of ur second. Thats y all Kirby mains should have a second that counters Snake
Deg222
Smash Journeyman
I actually think the exact opposite. I like approaching from the air against Snake because he's just too good with forward tilts and Battlefield makes it hard for me to approach from the air at all. I dunno, overall I really just hate Battlefield.
Got any suggestions?
Really. Snake isn't the worst char for me, that has to be MK. Not sure why, but his speed overwhelms me as Kirby. Bair, spacing, I know all that- I just need practice against him I think.
3xSwords
Smash Lord
Nah snake is worse than MK b/c he is so much harder to kill. Anyway I'm going to base my counter on snake based of DSF's snake. Conclusion: You're scrwd lawlz :D. Reason? Well the main problem with Snake is his f-tilt and u-tilt, the most broken tilts in the game. People say disjointed hitboxes are good, well that makes invisible disjointed hitboxes even better which is what they are.
The only safe moves IMO that kirby has against these are rock, upB, or grabbing on the same frame of the attack. All of these options are impractical. Final Cutter is the best option but they can easily shield that if they don't do both attacks of the f-tilt. And if you can time grabbing on the same frame perfectly than I would say you've mastered the game lol.
But like Gonzo said smart snakes play the campy approach game. This effectively controls you into the a ground clash, and his tilts win so yeah this is an incredible downhill battle. Bair and Fair are your best aerial options. However, nobody is perfect so they will mess up eventually and if you can, get them off the stage and capitalize. Go for the spike whenever possible and if they recover from above get as much free % as you can.
Zelda: Kirby's f-air can actually cancel out the Din's Fire's explosion. This is my approach of choice. After that just watch out for her ridiculous range and don't try to shield her smashes. Her f-smash and u-smash last forever and eat the crap out of our shield. The best position to be in vs Zelda is under her b/c all she has is her crappy d-air (awesome when sweetspotted thought) which can be easily out spaced. That means pop her up as much as you can. Then do whatever I've written too much anyway so freestyle after that. That is all.
The only safe moves IMO that kirby has against these are rock, upB, or grabbing on the same frame of the attack. All of these options are impractical. Final Cutter is the best option but they can easily shield that if they don't do both attacks of the f-tilt. And if you can time grabbing on the same frame perfectly than I would say you've mastered the game lol.
But like Gonzo said smart snakes play the campy approach game. This effectively controls you into the a ground clash, and his tilts win so yeah this is an incredible downhill battle. Bair and Fair are your best aerial options. However, nobody is perfect so they will mess up eventually and if you can, get them off the stage and capitalize. Go for the spike whenever possible and if they recover from above get as much free % as you can.
Zelda: Kirby's f-air can actually cancel out the Din's Fire's explosion. This is my approach of choice. After that just watch out for her ridiculous range and don't try to shield her smashes. Her f-smash and u-smash last forever and eat the crap out of our shield. The best position to be in vs Zelda is under her b/c all she has is her crappy d-air (awesome when sweetspotted thought) which can be easily out spaced. That means pop her up as much as you can. Then do whatever I've written too much anyway so freestyle after that. That is all.
Kasai
Smash Journeyman
Well, my experience with approaching Snake(which my friend mains) is to basically just time a nice bair either in between snake utilts or to float into range and hit the move before he has a chance to uptilt. It has worked pretty much throughout.
KiraNumber7
Smash Apprentice
i agree u can use kirbys cutter to esplode snakes mines(from far away obviously)
zelda.....if its about the dins fire just take her love from naryu
Zelda isn't too hard. Just play it safe and don't think of approaching her from the top.
Snake, on the other hand, is a very hard match-up. If you say he's not that hard, then you have not played a good one in-person. He has so many options to keep you on the defensive, then take advantage of you're needing to dodge and air dodge. Nades, remote mines, and UpSmash mortar sliding are killer. Nades and mines of both kinds keep you off the ground for the most part, then if you make a mistake of being within range he can Mortar Slide you. In the air, his mortar keeps you either air dodging or downB'ing to cancel the mortars, and then to make matters worse he can use the Nikita missile. Also, you can't approach besides Bair and an occasional Final Cutter, as his tilts outrange everything we've got and can kill.
Don't get me wrong, it's not an impossible match-up, as I beat 2 good Snake users yesterday in a tournament, but it's very tough.
Zelda is kinda easier than Snake imo. Just take Zelda's B move and stay close so she cant din fire spam easyily and if looks like she'll spam her smashes use her neutral b.
Same with snake take his granades. When he comes in with a dash>usmash hold granades and then shield. Snake'll hit the granade and go boom and u'll be safe. Combo his grabs stay far but dont let him set up his equipment.
Same with snake take his granades. When he comes in with a dash>usmash hold granades and then shield. Snake'll hit the granade and go boom and u'll be safe. Combo his grabs stay far but dont let him set up his equipment.
MK26
Smash Master
Just to tip the match slightly less in Snake's favour, a well-timed F-smash cancels out snake's nikita missile
CompassTosser
Smash Apprentice
Final Cutter...That's all I have to say
3xSwords
Smash Lord
^Eventually they will catch on. Zelda can reflect it and Snake can probably mortar slide behind you and then do a ridiculous u-tilt lol. Besides if final cutter is all you can rely on in a match against zelda and snake you might as well call it quits.
DarKirby92
Smash Cadet
zelda has trouble approaching Kirby, she relies on her great range, so try to get in her face, make her panic. Dodge her projectiles/taunt to make her come to u and put the beatdown with ur superior physical moves.
Snake?.... iono. Stay in the air, it's good for u.
Snake?.... iono. Stay in the air, it's good for u.
momochuu
Smash Legend
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Get in her face? o.o;;;
That's what you're NOT supposed to do. Her FSmash/DSmash will eat Kirby alive, and she outranges you.
Snake kills Kirby with any of his aerials, so that's not so great either.
Kasai
Smash Journeyman
Kirby easily out preforms snake in the air, regardless of whether or not Snake's aerials can kill. When fighting snake, it's definitely safer to be in the air where the control is more in the hands of Kirby.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Usually F-airs or b-airs and final cutters. Just keep in mind the range of snake's f-tilt, and zelda's forward smash out range Kirby, so always DI back with you attacks, and use multiple jumps to mind game snake and zelda to use their attacks early, then punish quickly with an f-tilt or bair, etc.