How do I fight a Rosalina player?

[ChikoLad]

A broken, character specific mechanic is not defined by "OH THIS CHARACTER CAN DO SOMETHING OTHER CHARACTERS CAN'T". With that logic, Fox is broken because of his reflector, Sonic is broken because of his speed, etc.

If the mechanic has a justifiable reason to exist, then it's cool. Rosalina's Luma shennagins are justified. For example, her being able to escape grabs (key word being "able", not "will automatically escape 100% of the time") makes sense because she is downright easier to grab, and throws can send her quite far. It's off setting a weakness of hers in a very direct manner, but not to the point where Rosalina players can simply ignore the fact her weaknesses exist.

Contrast this with say, Little Mac. Now here's a character I consider broken. Not because he's unbeatable, but because he has a ton of perks that seem like they are there for no reason. For example, his ridiculous Super Armour on his Smash Attacks.

Now, the Super Armour isn't ridiculous in concept. And I liked it at first. It seemed like a nice way to give his ground game that extra bit of oomph, being able to shrug off weak attacks.

But no, he can shrug off Kirby's Hammer. A powerful, but really strong attack, that is plenty dodgeable, especially by someone like Little Mac.

So he can completely shrug off a move Kirby REALLY has to work for, and to make things worse, he gets a massive boost to his Power Meter for doing so (as it is boosted for being hit AND for landing hits, both of which will happen here). Even though he can already dodge it really easily.

Now THAT'S absurd because the pay off for letting yourself get hit is so tremendously in Mac's favour, and it's really easy to do.

Yet nobody calls that out. But somehow, Rosalina being able to situationally escape grabs by having Luma attack for her to mitigate one of her weaknesses, is broken. Even though it rarely does more than simply return you to a neutral playing field, it's rarely a reliable KO option or anything.

 

[Kinslayer]

If you performed a move "correctly" and got hit for it, then you did not perform the move correctly. If you got punished for making the "right" move, then you did not perform the right move. You didn't lose because you made the right move. You lost because you failed to understand the strengths of your opponent.

Your complaints basically consist of "RosaLuma doesn't have the exact same weaknesses that every other character has, therefore she's broken". Well sorry but this is a game full of unique characters and if you want to do well you have to understand all of your matchups, not just your "typical" ones.

Rosalina should not be grabbed while Luma is right next to her. Does she always get to easily break free? No, she does not, but it can happen and you need to be aware of that risk. That said, knocking Luma away long enough for a quick grab is not hard, let alone impossible. Complaining about that is akin to complaining about Fox because he "punishes you for aiming your projectiles correctly", or complaining about Marth because "he punishes you for landing a hit".

There are times when Luma is completely unable to act, such as when Rosalina is in a tumble. This is a perfect time to kill Luma, and all it requires is one good read to give you this opportunity. Also, Luma is just as susceptible to hitstun as any other character, so if you want to hit Rosalina while Luma is right next to her then be sure to hit them both at once. If you didn't hit them both when they're right next to each other, then you didn't land the hit and should expect to get smacked for that.

Without Luma, Rosalina... doesn't exactly become useless, but she does become just like any other character except that she doesn't have half of her specials.

The silliest thing I've heard since I've been here and as I had expected it is coming from someone playing rosalina as a main trying to explain why their character's stupid mechanics are fair. Let me explain something to you, anytime I break a shield that means you have been ****ing on multiple guesses or playing overly defensively. So why should my reward (a free combo/hit) even have a chance at being negated? I want a good explanation for why I should have to hit two targets to ensure saftey when you only have to hit me and you have two chances at doing so with most moves? Also, rosa wins a lot of clashes because she has two hitboxes making it even harder to beat her out up close. Luma's hitbox can clash with your moves and then rosa can hit you or vice versa. Pleased expain how this is fair and how this alone isn't detrimental to the game?

This is a terrible point you just tried that only further serves to show how absurd your character is.
I don't blame you for playing her, but I'm smart enough to to know the stuff you're saying isn't from a non-bias point of view.

A broken, character specific mechanic is not defined by "OH THIS CHARACTER CAN DO SOMETHING OTHER CHARACTERS CAN'T". With that logic, Fox is broken because of his reflector, Sonic is broken because of his speed, etc.

If the mechanic has a justifiable reason to exist, then it's cool. Rosalina's Luma shennagins are justified. For example, her being able to escape grabs (key word being "able", not "will automatically escape 100% of the time") makes sense because she is downright easier to grab, and throws can send her quite far. It's off setting a weakness of hers in a very direct manner, but not to the point where Rosalina players can simply ignore the fact her weaknesses exist.

Contrast this with say, Little Mac. Now here's a character I consider broken. Not because he's unbeatable, but because he has a ton of perks that seem like they are there for no reason. For example, his ridiculous Super Armour on his Smash Attacks.

Now, the Super Armour isn't ridiculous in concept. And I liked it at first. It seemed like a nice way to give his ground game that extra bit of oomph, being able to shrug off weak attacks.

But no, he can shrug off Kirby's Hammer. A powerful, but really strong attack, that is plenty dodgeable, especially by someone like Little Mac.

So he can completely shrug off a move Kirby REALLY has to work for, and to make things worse, he gets a massive boost to his Power Meter for doing so (as it is boosted for being hit AND for landing hits, both of which will happen here). Even though he can already dodge it really easily.

Now THAT'S absurd because the pay off for letting yourself get hit is so tremendously in Mac's favour, and it's really easy to do.

Yet nobody calls that out. But somehow, Rosalina being able to situationally escape grabs by having Luma attack for her to mitigate one of her weaknesses, is broken. Even though it rarely does more than simply return you to a neutral playing field, it's rarely a reliable KO option or anything.

You completely missed the whole point off hat post. NO CHARACTER IN ANY GAME EVER CAN DO WHAT ROSA DOES BECAUSE IT'S BROKEN AND A POOR DESIGN! NO CHARACTER CAN EVER HIT YOU WHILE IN HITSTUN BECAUSE THT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY ABSURD WHICH IS WHAT ROSA IS PROVING NOW.
You are simply defending something because you like her, your opinion is not without bias. This character already can put up to 4 hitboxes on a screen with one move, you have auto two hit combos when in range of rosa and luma's at the same time, when luma isn't close you can toss someone into luma for combos, you can edge gaurd with saftey with luma, auto fireball shield, fireball absorption, you have a close, mid, and far range game, and for you to says she isn't broken is garbage.

Never before have I seen a character be dead and still pull off a win. I've seen a rosa get up smashed and star ko'd, but the luma hits the opponent off to the side and pick up the win for rosa before the star ko animation finishes. So, you can't sit here and tell me that ok is because it isn't.

 

[Shiliski]

The silliest thing I've heard since I've been here and as I had expected it is coming from someone playing rosalina as a main trying to explain why their character's stupid mechanics are fair. Let me explain something to you, anytime I break a shield that means you have been ****ing on multiple guesses or playing overly defensively. So why should my reward (a free combo/hit) even have a chance at being negated?

I did not notice before that Luma can attack while Rosa is stunned from a shield break. I even had to test it in order to make sure.

While this is hilarious, it's also probably the most nitpicky thing you could possibly ever bring up, as I have yet to see a single shield break in a For Glory match. As for competitive play, I've only ever see it happen ONE TIME in all of the high level matches I've ever seen. The one case I did see it was in a 3DS tournament that took place before the game was even out, so it's pretty debatable whether or not that'd even be considered 'high level' play. I also have to ask: If you've done enough damage to cause a shieldbreak, how the hell is Luma not dead yet? Not even Brawl Meta Knight was an autowin character, so if you're losing against RosaLuma players who play this badly then you've got other problems.

Not to mention you're making the same mistake all over again, expecting her to have the same weaknesses as everyone else. You aren't entitled to a win in any match up. You have to earn it by actually winning. Crying 'cheap' is just scrub talk.

I want a good explanation for why I should have to hit two targets to ensure saftey when you only have to hit me and you have two chances at doing so with most moves?

First, I couldn't really care less about what you want. That's the current state of how Smash 4 is, and if you want to win matches then you need to suck it up and adapt. The game doesn't care about your standards of what's 'fair', it only cares about the choices you make and whether or not they were good ones or bad ones.

Secondly, you are greatly exaggerating how much Luma extends Rosalina's hitboxes. It's really just one chance, because the attacks come out at once. When people actually find a reliable way to desynch Luma, then you can complain about multiple chances to hit. It's similar to how some of Lucario's moves have bigger hitboxes when he has more damage.

Also, rosa wins a lot of clashes because she has two hitboxes making it even harder to beat her out up close. Luma's hitbox can clash with your moves and then rosa can hit you or vice versa. Pleased expain how this is fair and how this alone isn't detrimental to the game?

You lose clashes against RosaLuma because of Rosalina's high priority, regardless of Luma's presence. Explain to me how this is fundamentally different from a multi-hit move and maybe I'll take you seriously. In fact, if Rosalina is clashing with your move, then the combined power of RosaLuma should break through. It's no different than a character who has a buff that lets them do more damage sometimes but have greater range other times.

RosaLuma's not weak by any means, but I've seen so many players overcome the exact same difficulties that you're currently complaining about to really take your nitpicking seriously.

 

[Kinslayer]

I did not notice before that Luma can attack while Rosa is stunned from a shield break. I even had to test it in order to make sure.

While this is hilarious, it's also probably the most nitpicky thing you could possibly ever bring up, as I have yet to see a single shield break outside of For Fun matches. I haven't seen it once at my level, and I've only ever see it happen ONE TIME in all of the high level matches I've ever seen. The one case I did see it was in a 3DS tournament that took place before the game was even out, so it's pretty debatable whether or not that'd even be considered 'high level' play. I also have to ask: If you've done enough damage to cause a shieldbreak, how the hell is Luma not dead yet? Not even Brawl Meta Knight was an autowin character, so if you're losing against RosaLuma players who play this badly then you've got other problems.

Not to mention you're making the same mistake all over again, expecting her to have the same weaknesses as everyone else. You aren't entitled to a win in any match up. You have to earn it by actually winning. Crying 'cheap' is just scrub talk.



You lose clashes against RosaLuma because of Rosalina's high priority, regardless of Luma's presence. Explain to me how this is fundamentally different from a multi-hit move and maybe I'll take you seriously. In fact, if Rosalina is clashing with your move, then the combined power of RosaLuma should break through. It's no different than a character who has a buff that lets them do more damage sometimes but have greater range other times.

RosaLuma's not weak, but I've seen so many players overcome the exact same difficulties that you're currently complaining about to really take your nitpicking seriously.

You're so wrong on soooooo many levels. It has little to nothing to do with priority of solely one character. You're competing with two character's with two different hitboxes and two different amounts of frame data. Which gives you two different chances to clash. Clashing is when both moves active frames collide and nullify one another. Say that happens against rosaluma. I clash with luma and my move and luma's move stops, great! Now the problem is that rosalina's move doesn't because i clashed with luma and not hers meaning i will probably get hit now.

Also just because someone beats a character doesn't make that character not broken or absurd. I can beat eddie in guilty gear but that doesn't mean he isn't rediculious in accent core. I can beat Hilda in soul calibur 4 but that doesn't mean she isn't broken (there is a reason she is banned). Stop waging that 5 year old argument of it can lose therefore I isn't broken. Yes, it can lose but how much effort is required to beat it, and how consistently can you win against it? These are the questions that need to be asked to determine the power of a character. You don't seem to get that for some reason though. Even pros call her absurd and you're saying it's just my nitpicking? Lol

 

[Phenomiracle]

I'm way too late to this party.

So, Rosalina. She's absolutely incredible; her priority is sick, and her very few weaknesses are very, very difficult to exploit, given how solid her evasion game is. Oh, and her learning curve really isn't too steep. Learning to maximize offense/defense capabilities with Luma is the only challenge, and even then it's more a matter of cognizance than it is practicing precision.

Here's to holding out hope that the meta evolves to make Rosaluma more manageable to battle against (which is a MUST, since in the current meta she's sitting somewhere between where Fox was for Melee and Metaknight was for Brawl). Rosalina is, I believe, Nintendo's greatest new character of the past decade, and it would be quite sad if she ends up getting the brunt from Smashers for being "broken" in the long-run.

Looking through my replays against her as Zelda, I've held out by relying on Nayru's Love for throwing her out of sync, as well as the usual Dsmash to punish shield-rolls and kills. Grab combos are near impossible to execute against her at any percent that isn't greater than 15%. She's definitely not easy to gimp, seeing how fast her Up-special is, so there goes that option (which is one of Zelda's only viable ones).

 

[SuperMii3D]

Ehhh, I used Sonic against a good RosaLuma player once, and it semi-worked for me. I learned a lot about how I can easil =y avoid Rosalinas moves and hit her after she dodges with Sonic.

 

[Warlock*G]

[...] just because someone beats a character doesn't make that character not broken[...].

Yes it does. A character being "broken" means that it is so overpowered that it supplants all other characters; meaning, Rosalina & Luma would be broken if no other character could win against them, which clearly isn't the case. Call it a "five year-old" argument if you will; it doesn't change anything to its validity.

Rosalina isn't on the level of, say, Street Fighter 2's Akuma or Soul Calibur 4's Hilde, or even Brawl's Metaknight. She's just too powerful for your personal tastes.

[...] Even pros call her absurd and you're saying it's just my nitpicking? Lol

Could you start naming names?

 

[Kinslayer]

Yes it does. A character being "broken" means that it is so overpowered that it supplants all other characters; meaning, Rosalina & Luma would be broken if no other character could win against them, which clearly isn't the case. Call it a "five year-old" argument if you will; it doesn't change anything to its validity.

Rosalina isn't on the level of, say, Street Fighter 2's Akuma or Soul Calibur 4's Hilde, or even Brawl's Metaknight. She's just too powerful for your personal tastes.

Could you start naming names?[/quote]

Zero, dabuzz mains her and even says how insane she is, fow, and pb&j for starters

Next that is such a silly thing to say.
"Someone can inconsistently beat this character so they aren't broken because they can lose."

Tell that to sc4 Hilda, st akuma, AC eddie, or brawl metaknight can all lose, but they are very difficult to beat.
I've seen hilde lose to maxi, st akuma lose to gief, eddie lose to anji, and brawl metaknight lose to ice climbers, but they are all still broken.
Simply because something has a chance to lose doesn't make it not overpowered or broken. It's about how hard does the cast have to work to make this character lose or be at a true disadvantage and how easy is it for the character to get back to an advantageous or neutral state. As it stands every character in this game has to really hard to get rosalina to a state where she is even semi-venerable, but she doesn't have to work hard to get back any advantage she just lost. You obviously don't know what dictates when something is overpowered or broken, man.

Just because im semi new here doesn't mean I'm not a fighting gamer. I've been in quite a lot of tournaments and have placed well or won in kof, guilty gear, and I hope to add uniel to my list.
You're not going to tell me something isn't broken because it has a chance to lose because by the nature of any game anything CAN LOSE. Especislly when as it stands rosalina doesn't even have a counter, or even something that genuinely gives her a hard time on a consistent basis.

 

[Fathom778]

 

[Warlock*G]

Could you start naming names?

Zero, dabuzz, fow, and pb&j for starters

Ok.

Next that is such a silly thing to say.
"Someone can inconsistently beat this character so they aren't broken because they can lose."

Tell that to sc4 Hilda, st akuma, AC eddie, or brawl metaknight can all lose, but they are very difficult to beat.
Simply because something can lose doesn't make it not overpowered or broken. It's about how hard does the cast have to work to make this character lose or be at a true disadvantage and how easy is it for the character to get back to an advantageous or neutral state. As it stands every character in this game has to really hard to get rosalina to a state where she is even semi venerable, but she doesn't have to work hard to get back any advantage she just lost. You obviously don't know what dictates when something is overpowered or broken man.

Well, you just restated your previous points in a different manner. It seems we only disagree on what the word "broken" means. As debates in semantics usually don't go anywhere, I'll refer you to this definition of the word "broken":

Broken refers to both characters and moves. The reason why a move or a character are called broken is because they are so powerful/advantageous that none of the cast has an answer for it, and therefore is game-breaking. This term unfortunately gets taken out of context mainly due to two things. Firstly, during the early days of a new release because players haven't yet found a counter for it. The other reason why this term is taken out of context is because most players label certain characters/moves as strong even though they are not necessarily unbeatable. (Broken in this sense is synonymous with cheap.)

from:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games#Broken

See where this is going? We should be very careful before we call any character broken. The meta game is still young. Are you 100% certain that none of the cast whatsoever, in any situation, has any answer at all for Rosaluma?

Anytime Rosalina loses, there is a possibility of enlarging a chink in her armor, to develop new technology against her by reproducing the conditions which led to her defeat. Now, if she could never, ever lose, that would be a different story... but again, that isn't the case.

 

[Kinslayer]

Ok.



Well, you just restated your previous points in a different manner. It seems we only disagree on what the word "broken" means. As debates in semantics usually don't go anywhere, I'll refer you to this definition of the word "broken":


from:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_fighting_games#Broken

See where this is going? We should be very careful before we call any character broken. The meta game is still young. Are you 100% certain that none of the cast whatsoever, in any situation, has any answer at all for Rosaluma?

Anytime Rosalina loses, there is a possibility of enlarging a chink in her armor, to develop new technology against her by reproducing the conditions which led to her defeat. Now, if she could never, ever lose, that would be a different story... but again, that isn't the case.

See I would agree with you if and only if her having two characters on the screen didn't allow her more room to adjust than most of the cast.

As it stands there is no chink and the only wins most of us get on her could have easily become losses if the rosa player would have zigged instead of zagged. To beat rosa you have to force her to mess up and mess up often, and with luma existing with his current mechanics sometimes when she does mess up she still isn't able to be properly punished for her mistakes because he is there to cover the punish for her. Every game with rosalina is her game to lose as it stands.

 

[Warlock*G]

See I would agree with you if and only if her having two characters on the screen didn't allow her more room to adjust than most of the cast.

As it stands there is no chink and the only wins most of us get on her could have easily become losses if the rosa player would have zigged instead of zagged. To beat rosa you have to force her to mess up and mess up often, and with luma existing with his current mechanics sometimes when she does mess up she still isn't able to be properly punished for her mistakes because he is there to cover the punish for her. Every game with rosalina is her game to lose as it stands.

"As it stands", huh? Then there is only one thing to do: wait and see. Time will tell.

 

[Kinslayer]

"As it stands", huh? Then there is only one thing to do: wait and see. Time will tell.

Yes, you're right we will have to wait for the wii U version and give it some time. However, with the mechanics she has and the precision the GameCube controller will provide her I doubt we will have to wait long.

 

[ChikoLad]

See I would agree with you if and only if her having two characters on the screen didn't allow her more room to adjust than most of the cast.

Just shove Luma off the stage.

Christ, it isn't that hard to do.

Also, ZSS and Lucario seem like possible counters to Rosalina, if you ask me. ZSS absolutely cripples Luma with the Stun Gun (and can even get Rosalina with it if Luma is in front of her), she has that invincibility jump in her Down B that nobody has a really effective counter for yet (again, better example of something that might be broken), and she has long range Smash attacks that can go straight through Luma and possibly hit Rosalina.

If Lucario is at high damage, his Aura grants his attacks insane range and recovery ability, and his attacks will be really strong in both damage and knockback. Even if Rosalina gets him to 100% without taking any damage, Lucario can easily turn things around. At that stage, half of his attacks cover half of FD.

 

[S_B]

I'm actually quite happy that Rosalina has been doing very well, though I guess there can be a problem when you have to fight against her.

It sounds like she might be first on the list to be "balanced", though...

 

[Kinslayer]

Just shove Luma off the stage.

Christ, it isn't that hard to do.

Also, ZSS and Lucario seem like possible counters to Rosalina, if you ask me. ZSS absolutely cripples Luma with the Stun Gun (and can even get Rosalina with it if Luma is in front of her), she has that invincibility jump in her Down B that nobody has a really effective counter for yet (again, better example of something that might be broken), and she has long range Smash attacks that can go straight through Luma and possibly hit Rosalina.

If Lucario is at high damage, his Aura grants his attacks insane range and recovery ability, and his attacks will be really strong in both damage and knockback. Even if Rosalina gets him to 100% without taking any damage, Lucario can easily turn things around. At that stage, half of his attacks cover half of FD.

Quit trying to deflect the fact that rosalina is insane onto other characters/ moves. Yes, you can knock luma's off their stage quite easily, but hardly ever and I mean ever is it for free. Unless luma is completely away from rosa (which he hardly isn't except in very particular situations) you will be putting yourself in a spot to be punished. If rosa shields while you tear into luma he has blocked your attack and can now punish you or if you hit luma off at al slight distance she can punish the recovery of the move you used to hit luma off. Also giving up a lum and isn't a huge disadvantage because now you know what we are going to do. Luma is gonna time to face rush rosa. Now that you know that you can prepare a defense to deal witht he offensive options or just simply attempt to run away for8 short ass seconds until one respawns.

Again, you're a rosa main and I can tell by the way you are posting you're not caring about the metagame you're caring about the character and protecting your interest rather than that of the community.

Also to zss down b moves like Marth's neutral air shuts her options out of the hop down.

 

[Shiliski]

I have an opinion and anyone who disagrees with me is obviously biased.

Yeah it's not like we have experience with the character or anything.

 

[Kinslayer]

Yeah it's not like we have experience with the character or anything.

Do you not comprehend what bias is?

You have experience playing as her and you have success playing as her meaning you will try to make her vulnerabilities appear larger than they are in an attempt to sway people and not have her banned or altered.

You can't look at this from the perspective that the people who don't play as rosalina but play against rosalina can. It's a reasons hen so ne of the most talked about characters in every match up board sometimes people post separate match up boards just for her.

 

[ChikoLad]

Quit trying to deflect the fact that rosalina is insane onto other characters/ moves. Yes, you can knock luma's off their stage quite easily, but hardly ever and I mean ever is it for free. Unless luma is completely away from rosa (which he hardly isn't except in very particular situations) you will be putting yourself in a spot to be punished. If rosa shields while you tear into luma he has blocked your attack and can now punish you or if you hit luma off at al slight distance she can punish the recovery of the move you used to hit luma off. Also giving up a lum and isn't a huge disadvantage because now you know what we are going to do. Luma is gonna time to face rush rosa. Now that you know that you can prepare a defense to deal witht he offensive options or just simply attempt to run away for8 short *** seconds until one respawns.

Again, you're a rosa main and I can tell by the way you are posting you're not caring about the metagame you're caring about the character and protecting your interest rather than that of the community.

Also to zss down b moves like Marth's neutral air shuts her options out of the hop down.

Dude.

I literally could not give two ****s about whether or not Rosalina gets banned. I live in Ireland, so the going ons of the FGC in the US is not my problem, your tournaments and what not are all just entertainment for me to watch. There is no competitive Smash community in Ireland, so I have nothing to worry about.

If Rosalina was banned, I'd probably put "BOW DOWN TO YOUR TOP TIER GODDESS" in my sig or something.

I have no angle in this so therefore, what I'm saying here is not biased.

Unless luma is completely away from rosa (which he hardly isn't except in very particular situations)

Now I don't even think we are talking about the same fighter here.

 

[Kinslayer]

Dude.

I literally could not give two ****s about whether or not Rosalina gets banned. I live in Ireland, so the going ons of the FGC in the US is not my problem, your tournaments and what not are all just entertainment for me to watch. There is no competitive Smash community in Ireland, so I have nothing to worry about.

If Rosalina was banned, I'd probably put "BOW DOWN TO YOUR TOP TIER GODDESS" in my sig or something.

I have no angle in this so therefore, what I'm saying here is not biased.



Now I don't even think we are talking about the same fighter here.

luma doesn't spend tons of time away from rosa. There are situations and match ups in which that is advantageous, but those aren't as prominent and not as benefitial as having him next to you or at mid range from you.

Having him next to you or at mid range grants you auto combos, large hitboxes, 2 hit auto combos on smashes/tilts, and punishes for people hitting luma amongst other things of course. I can grab a dabuzz videos and show you what I mean.

You still do have a dog in this fight. You may not enter tournaments but you still play and have sucess with then character. Having her altered is a possibility and yes it would still effect you over in Ireland.

 

[BBC7]

Separate Luma from Rosalina and then see who's OP. It's not like Luma has any shield like Nana does, go ham on that twinkle little star.

 

[ChikoLad]

Whoever said I was opposed to Rosalina being changed by principle? I have said time and time again that there is a terrible bug with Rosalina that allows her to completely break the matchup against in her favour, and that it needs to be fixed.

And I let Luma loose all of the time, one of the best things about Luma is that by letting him wander, he can control space. There are many tricks you can do with that.

Plus, gotta love those ping-pong combos.

 

[Kinslayer]

Separate Luma from Rosalina and then see who's OP. It's not like Luma has any shield like Nana does, go ham on that twinkle little star.

Then get hit by rosalina for "going ham on the star" there has to be a nice amounts of distance between them for that to work. Is what no one seems to understand.

Whoever said I was opposed to Rosalina being changed by principle? I have said time and time again that there is a terrible bug with Rosalina that allows her to completely break the matchup against in her favour, and that it needs to be fixed.

And I let Luma loose all of the time, one of the best things about Luma is that by letting him wander, he can control space. There are many tricks you can do with that.

Plus, gotta love those ping-pong combos.

Yeahhhhh lumabreaks combos and stuff wayyyy too often in this set.

Also watch this set luma hardly ever leaves Rosa's side unless hit or shot out and called back to try sandwich combos/ dual sided pressure.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeahhhhh lumabreaks combos and stuff wayyyy too often in this set.

Your video has fallen into the cosmic void beneath Rosalina's gown, it seems.

 

[Kinslayer]

I am on an iPad and for some reasons it wouldn't let me copy paste links so I typed it in manually and messed up.lol

It's fixed now though.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It sounds like she might be first on the list to be "balanced", though...

Rosalina doesn't really need any nerfs though, since most of her KO potential relies on the Luma. Get the Luma out of the way, and Rosalina would have a harder time approaching safely. Also, her down aerial is too weak to strike fear on anyone.

 

[warionumbah2]

Noticing a trend for tournaments im subscribed to Clash Tournaments and some other channel that hosts japan tournaments and the most used character in 1 v 1 tournaments are Sheik and RosaLuma.

I'm praying that this trend is occurring because of the metagame still being young or maybe due to the controls since the Wii U version will do characters justice such as Sonic,C Falcon,Marth,Fox ect .

 

[Kinslayer]

Rosalina doesn't really need any nerfs though, since most of her KO potential relies on the Luma. Get the Luma out of the way, and Rosalina would have a harder time approaching safely. Also, her down aerial is too weak to strike fear on anyone.

Disagree man she has a lot of solo ko potential and a lot of solos gimp potential as well. Also, rosa doesn't want to approach when she doesn't have luma so her ability to approach isn't really an issue.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Rosalina doesn't really need any nerfs though, since most of her KO potential relies on the Luma. Get the Luma out of the way, and Rosalina would have a harder time approaching safely. Also, her down aerial is too weak to strike fear on anyone.

She has a harder time approaching without Luma, but her options are still plentiful. She isn't helpless by any standard.

I think the best patch to start off with (IF necessary, and assuming more are necessary, which may very well not be the case) would be to increase Luma's respawn time.

 

[Kinslayer]

She has a harder time approaching without Luma, but her options are still plentiful. She isn't helpless by any standard.

I think the best patch to start off with (IF necessary, and assuming more are necessary, which may very well not be the case) would be to increase Luma's respawn time.

That or I'd rather luma not being able to attack while she is in hitstun.

 

[Phenomiracle]

That or I'd rather luma not being able to attack while she is in hitstun.

Yeah, that's just...plain disgusting, really. No reason at all whatsoever for that to be possible.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, that's just...plain disgusting, really. No reason at all whatsoever for that to be possible.

Yet Little Mac having insane super armour despite also having insane dodging ability and a OHKO move that goes through shields is OK? And said super armour makes it really easy for him to build up his power meter due to it allowing him to take and a deal a hit at the same time?

At least Luma can be separated from Rosalina to prevent him from being used in cunning ways, can't seperate Mac from his super armour and it takes absolutely no thought to use and is the result of many "...oh, I won?" moments for Mac players.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Yet Little Mac having insane super armour despite also having insane dodging ability and a OHKO move that goes through shields is OK? And said super armour makes it really easy for him to build up his power meter due to it allowing him to take and a deal a hit at the same time?

At least Luma can be separated from Rosalina to prevent him from being used in cunning ways, can't seperate Mac from his super armour and it takes absolutely no thought to use and is the result of many "...oh, I won?" moments for Mac players.

Bruh.

Are you seriously going to make me defend Little Mac.

As much as I resent his Super Armor for screwing me over a few times, I'm fairly alright with him having it, considering how much of a chump he is in the air. My ground strategy against him is almost entirely comprised of grab combos. Direct challenges is something I just don't do. I have more of a problem with his ground smashes being so ridiculously strong than I do with them having Super Armor (For an Fsmash that hits 20% uncharged, it has wayyy too small of a startup).

Comparing Little Mac's Super Armor to Rosaluma's ability to attack while in hitstun is apples to oranges. Again, though, I'd prefer Luma's respawn time to be simply increased.

 

[ChikoLad]

Bruh.

Are you seriously going to make me defend Little Mac.

As much as I resent his Super Armor for screwing me over a few times, I'm fairly alright with him having it, considering how much of a chump he is in the air. My ground strategy against him is almost entirely comprised of grab combos. Direct challenges is something I just don't do. I have more of a problem with his ground smashes being so ridiculously strong than I do with them having Super Armor (For an Fsmash that hits 20% uncharged, it has wayyy too small of a startup).

Comparing Little Mac's Super Armor to Rosaluma's ability to attack while in hitstun is apples to oranges. Again, though, I'd prefer Luma's respawn time to be simply increased.

No, this isn't about his Super Armour in general, more about what it means in hindsight and how it's not just weak moves, but stuff as strong as Kirby's hammer.

 

[Kinslayer]

No, this isn't about his Super Armour in general, more about what it means in hindsight and how it's not just weak moves, but stuff as strong as Kirby's hammer.

I'd say take his super armor away on his foward smash on the forward variant and the uppercut. That would make him have to think about his footsie game a bit.
Just an FYI I main Marth and Mac.

However, this isn't as good as rosalina being able to hit while in hitstun

 

[Psionic]

I have stopped using Ness but I have trouble seeing how a Ness could possibly beat a Rosalina. I think that's one problem with her balancing, others might argue that a Sheik or other something could beat Rosalina, but as far as characters Rosalina shuts down... she shuts them down HARD. And I've even found Ness to be a really good character.

a good way to ko a rosalina with ness is luring them outside of the stage, close to the ledge, far from the bottom blast zone, and then pk rocketing towards the edge. it gives you a recovery and knocks the everloving **** out of rosalina

 

[Zenpie]

I main RosaLuma but for the same reason I usually use Catwoman in Injustice instead of Superman is the same reason I usually use Dark Pit in Smash 4. You. God. Damn. Whiny. Babies.
Instead of crying about the character and crying for nerfs you should get better and practice against her. I have been able to beat good Rosalina's with Pit and Dark Pit. Now while I admit maybe it's because I use her and know the ins and outs of Rosalina, I have no issues beating her. Patience is key. Be patient and take what little safe % you can get. It pays off.
And you all have to understand that this is not a 1 on 1 fighting game. It's from 1-4 players (now 1 to 8 for WiiU). There are different types of characters, some that dominate in one on one and some that are prevalent in FFA. Some characters might be great for team battle. I understand that all of us care a lot more about being better 1 on 1 but this game is so much deeper than that. Casual play, competitive play, 1v1 play, 2v2 play and FFA play. Just keep that in mind when discussing characters I guess. I'm really good with Samus in FFA but can't use her 1v1.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Comparing Luma breaking hitstun to Little Mac's armor?

I can easily explain why one is a problematic mechanic and the other isn't.

A) Little Mac is known to be, let's say, unpunishable during a Smash. Either grab or roll.
B) If you HIT Little Mac at any other point in time he can not prevent you from following up.
C) KO Punch is great but it's not really broken. You can get it off if you're smart but the fact that it diminishes and can only be used for so long is what balances it, plussss it's pretty easy to read if you're linear.

It's a very different situation when someone armors through your attack as opposed to directly punishing you for landing an attack.

 

[ChikoLad]

A) Little Mac is known to be, let's say, unpunishable during a Smash. Either grab or roll.

Rosalina is known to be, let's say, unpunishable, while Luma is nearby. Either grab and immediately throw (pummel can also hit Luma), or separate Luma first.

B) If you HIT Little Mac at any other point in time he can not prevent you from following up.

If you hit Rosalina at any other time than when Luma is beside her, she cannot prevent you from following up.

C) KO Punch is great but it's not really broken. You can get it off if you're smart but the fact that it diminishes and can only be used for so long is what balances it, plussss it's pretty easy to read if you're linear.

Luma is great but he's not really broken. Smart Rosalina players will put him to work, but the fact he can be knocked off easily and moving him finely requires Rosalina to commit to attacks herself (leaving her open should Luma be surmounted) is what balances it.

It's a very different situation when someone armors through your attack as opposed to directly punishing you for landing an attack.

It's not, the former is merely a sub category of the latter.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I'm saying that comparing them is a really bad idea when someone cites it as a problematic mechanic and has their reasons for it lol. They're not even identical in execution, situation, or function. It aims to distract from the complaint or inquiry and doesn't really create any discussion, just seems like finger pointing at some other character with a gimmick as if to justify another one.

The answer you gave me is much more applicable than just saying "Little Mac has armor tho"