How could Sakurai and his team NOT realized how glaring WFT's flaws are?

[PUK]

Bigger hitbox on Ftilt, fsmash, grab, and uptilt, and maybe jab1

 

[koolkid789]

I hope that there is either less lag on u-tilt or more hit stun on f-tilt so that she can reliably combo into her aerials from the ground. Also, if down throw didn't suck, that would be nice.

 

[mat7772]

Honestly she isn't as bad as what people think. She just has some very quirky hitboxes that take a bit of practice using at first, but after using this character for around a month (this was like, january), you get used to it and realise what fantastic potential she has.
Appropriate buffs would be
-Utilt has less ending lag, but in return does a tiny bit more knock back so you cant do utilt utilt utilt utilt utilt utilt utilt like mario, but you could start a combo with it.
-Make her grab not whiff on shorter opponents.

Notice how I didn't mention much? I honestly feel like this game is pretty balanced as it is.

 

[PK_Wonder]

^As many have said, WFT is just unconventional, with wonky hitboxes, and this requires a steeper learning curve. She has a generally good set of tools and attributes, it's just spacing and timing her at a different flow from most other characters. Unlike many characters (and this is why I don't main her, although I adore her) I feel like WFT is a character you need to be more monogamous with. Playing other characters and going back to her can mess you up just because of how quirky she is. If you don't main her, she requires a lot more warmup before you get into groove.

 

[Luxent]

I've been playing her a LOT more, and now that I'm used to her, I think if anything here would be my critiques:

• More range on D-Smash. (maybe more % too)
• Give F-Air a directly horizonal hitbox in addition to the diagonal one. (or give her one with a wider range of motion... something that slashes down (like shulk's F-air) instead of "popping out" diagonally of her body.)
• All grab and F-Smash to hit short characters. She even SQUATS a bit for ther grabbing animation.... so like COME ON.


As for other ~notions~
•I dont really care for deep breathing.
I rarely use USmash.
• Bair, UAir, Nair are pretty flawless, and I use them all constantly.)

 

[speedguy20]

The sourspot on dair actually works similar to other dairs and will send them at an upwards diagonal angle.

To be honest I'm praying for buffs for Lucina more than changes to any other character, and really just hoping these "balance tweaks" are fixes to absurd things like matching hitboxes to animations.

Yea Lucina is kind of.....bad. I'm not sure how they can buff her (maybe less landing lag on moves?)

so what should be done to WFT?

WFT should have way better hitboxes of her grab, and Usmash. Increase sweetspot on Dair, and make her Deep Breathing either have less cooldown after the first time you use it, or allow it to stack to like 4.

 

[NirvanaNexus]

A buff in slightly more invincibility frames for UpSmash would make people fear coming down on her. I'd like to see that. I'm not sure how I feel about the cooldown for Deep Breathing. She can already deal up to 70%+ damage from one combo in seconds and if she's able to keep it on 80% of the match, she's be really deadly and strong. Nair is a extremely powerful tool she has and she's also a zoner. I say we gotta just keep working more on our traits we do have right now.
-multiple hitboxes
-low profile crouch evasion & pokes
-zoning to bring them to us
-usage of her many meteors

Getting them off stage makes them have to respect her edgeguard atleast or it's an early death. Header's spike is nearly instead and it's easier to land it by just turning the opposite way. Still, kinda sucks that the only thing she seems to have gotten was a speed buff on Deep Breathing's walking speed.

 

[⑨ball]

A buff in slightly more invincibility frames for UpSmash would make people fear coming down on her. I'd like to see that. I'm not sure how I feel about the cooldown for Deep Breathing. She can already deal up to 70%+ damage from one combo in seconds and if she's able to keep it on 80% of the match, she's be really deadly and strong. Nair is a extremely powerful tool she has and she's also a zoner. I say we gotta just keep working more on our traits we do have right now.
-multiple hitboxes
-low profile crouch evasion & pokes
-zoning to bring them to us
-usage of her many meteors

Getting them off stage makes them have to respect her edgeguard atleast or it's an early death. Header's spike is nearly instead and it's easier to land it by just turning the opposite way. Still, kinda sucks that the only thing she seems to have gotten was a speed buff on Deep Breathing's walking speed.

I'd mentioned this to @ Indigo Jeans waaaaaay way back when we were still trying to figure out everything, but I wasn't sure and had no way to reliably test it.

Is this confirmed or have I just been crazy all this time?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I got a capture card recently so along with basically finishing our frame data I'm going to see if I can settle this once and for all

 

[AdaptiveTrigger]

Playing Wii Fit Trainer feels like you're playing Shaq Fu sometimes...lol.

 

[Daxter]

I was playing as Wii Fit earlier today and I had serious trouble with Little Mac. Many attacks still pass clean over his head! Down Tilt and Down Smash will hit, but if they miss (and they will due to his amazing dodges) you're wide open. Playing camping with Sun Salutation seems like the only way to go, but little ones pass over his head too! Grabs pass over too, in a more hit-and-miss thing, so the whole "edge of the stage" trick won't work either.

If you can pop him airborne somehow things go much better, but getting to that point is tricky. Still, small characters still give WFT some problems, even after the buffs.

 

[Champ Gold]

All of Trainer's problems can be fixed if she just have better hit boxes and didn't have to rely on being up close and personal so much. We that and her tilts are not pretty meh aside from her F-Tilt which you might as well make it strong as Mac's since his have high knockback.


Also her back air and F-Smash is probably few of her best moves though.

 

[Zeekfox]

Either better hitboxes, or less lag after moves. As a player with really crappy internet (stable, but laggy), I find it really hard to play online, so I'll often practice against the AI. Yeah, the AI is no substitute for learning to play against real people, it does show you what opponents with good reflexes can potentially do.

Playing WFT vs AI Mario is a nightmare. You can't zone out Mario because he'll spam Fireballs at you and cape back most projectiles you throw. And if you jump the fireballs, none of your aireals will beat out Mario's up smash, nor are they safe on block because of the landing lag. So you're left with few options other than attempting to whiff punish, which is tough to do with WFT's moveset. And should you do anything in neutral that isn't a punish, you often get wrecked by having worse normals than Mario.

Admittedly, I might end up a bit more successful against a real player though, because I feel like WFT has some decent mixups on airborne opponents, either on or off stage. Unfortunately, the AI loves to air dodge accurately, so I can't force it to guess whether I'll wait for an f-tilt on landing or short hop f-air if they land near me, nor can I effectively meteor smash them.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Either better hitboxes, or less lag after moves. As a player with really crappy internet (stable, but laggy), I find it really hard to play online, so I'll often practice against the AI. Yeah, the AI is no substitute for learning to play against real people, it does show you what opponents with good reflexes can potentially do.

Playing WFT vs AI Mario is a nightmare. You can't zone out Mario because he'll spam Fireballs at you and cape back most projectiles you throw. And if you jump the fireballs, none of your aireals will beat out Mario's up smash, nor are they safe on block because of the landing lag. So you're left with few options other than attempting to whiff punish, which is tough to do with WFT's moveset. And should you do anything in neutral that isn't a punish, you often get wrecked by having worse normals than Mario.

Admittedly, I might end up a bit more successful against a real player though, because I feel like WFT has some decent mixups on airborne opponents, either on or off stage. Unfortunately, the AI loves to air dodge accurately, so I can't force it to guess whether I'll wait for an f-tilt on landing or short hop f-air if they land near me, nor can I effectively meteor smash them.

what lvl do you set your CPU opponents to? if 9, then you're practicing offense wrong.

 

[Zeekfox]

what lvl do you set your CPU opponents to? if 9, then you're practicing offense wrong.

What level are you supposed to set them at, then?

And I'm mostly practicing defense and punishing. Because level 9 AI's react so quickly and accurately, it helps me work on punishing unsafe things rather than just throwing out attacks and hoping they land.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

What level are you supposed to set them at, then?

And I'm mostly practicing defense and punishing. Because level 9 AI's react so quickly and accurately, it helps me work on punishing unsafe things rather than just throwing out attacks and hoping they land.

Lvl 9s are good for practicing punishing things OOS and capitalizing on mistakes you see (I think, I haven't been practicing defense yet).
However, practicing offense with CPU lvl 9s are DEFINITLY not a good way to practice strings, combos, 50/50s am whatnot since they act like worthy opponents and since that is their purpose, you won't be able to work on offense as much since they won't let you (and they make humanly impossible actions like airdodging the moment you press button). Lvl 3 CPUs are the way to go as they are a little responsive, but not enough to where you have to legit fight instead of charge in and work on your character's combo tree.

 

[Zeekfox]

Well I also play against CPU's at higher levels so I can work on not throwing out unsafe attacks myself. For Glory isn't so great about teaching players not to just throw unsafe smashes because of the online lag. But on the other side of the coin, CPU's will powershield and punish, which most real players cannot do. I have gotten better at cleaning up my game and not throwing so many bad smashes with WFT via CPU practice, though I need more real player practice to help work on what's safe on just regular shielding.

But anyway, I was still getting to the WFT vs Mario matchup. I was able to beat a number of CPU opponents at level 9 rather handily, but AI Mario was kicking my butt. Now while that doesn't mean so much in terms of strategy, it still means something in terms of Mario's normals being so much better, where he often wins exchanges and gets punishes that WFT cannot reciprocate.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

My question is, do you make sure to fight lower level CPUs as well (4,3,2,1)? It's just as if not more important

 

[Zeekfox]

My question is, do you make sure to fight lower level CPUs as well (4,3,2,1)? It's just as if not more important

Haha, I set 'em low the other day so I could play on Miiverse and be able to read the stuff in the background. Probably doesn't count, but hey.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Haha, I set 'em low the other day so I could play on Miiverse and be able to read the stuff in the background. Probably doesn't count, but hey.

And this is the point I'm trying to make; you'll never really learn your character's combo tree and will just make stray hits if you don't work on the lower levels. Those are actually more important than lvl 9