How could Sakurai and his team NOT realized how glaring WFT's flaws are?

[Shinuto]

no range, so many moves with start up lag and end lag with no payoff. Maybe I just suck ass as my main but I've been losing all day to every spammer, roll spammer, noob online I've fought. you cant punish out of shield because her dash grab will actually move past the opponent and miss entirely and her moves just have no range whatsoever to properly punish others whiffed or shielded moves. I wanna be good with her, I really do, but I just seem to LOSE to EVERYTHING my opponents dish out.

 

[Bobert]

She'll probably end up being buffed in the near future.

 

[Shinuto]

She'll probably end up being buffed in the near future.

somehow I doubt it, but I REALLY hope so...not a big buff, I dont want her to be overpowered I just...I just wan equal playing field, everything just feels so uphill/cliff with her.

 

[Bobert]

somehow I doubt it, but I REALLY hope so...not a big buff, I dont want her to be overpowered I just...I just wan equal playing field, everything just feels so uphill/cliff with her.

They need to atleast buff her speed and reduce the end lag on her Bair to make up for her lack of range and an approach option. She's going to need a big buff probably to just be mid tier.

 

[RedBeanPorridge]

I do agree that WFT is a very flawed character, however she does have some tools that let you have some fun with her. I used to ridicule every WFT player I knew because of such blaring flaws. That was until I tried her out myself because of the current conquest going on; I found her to be a treat to play as. She has really crappy range in general. But poking at your opponents with her side B is hilariously satisfying. Her ground attacks, namely her smashes, are painfully laggy. But she has some decent aerials at her disposal to make up for this to a degree (the amount of satisfaction I get from KOing people with her upair).

I guess at the end of the day, WFT is a character who, due to her flaws, takes a lot of patience to play and get used to. I'll say it now, if you don't have the patience to deal with these flaws, then she's not the fighter for-a-you.

 

[Shinuto]

I do agree that WFT is a very flawed character, however she does have some tools that let you have some fun with her. I used to ridicule every WFT player I knew because of such blaring flaws. That was until I tried her out myself because of the current conquest going on; I found her to be a treat to play as. She has really crappy range in general. But poking at your opponents with her side B is hilariously satisfying. Her ground attacks, namely her smashes, are painfully laggy. But she has some decent aerials at her disposal to make up for this to a degree (the amount of satisfaction I get from KOing people with her upair).

I guess at the end of the day, WFT is a character who, due to her flaws, takes a lot of patience to play and get used to. I'll say it now, if you don't have the patience to deal with these flaws, then she's not the fighter for-a-you.

oh i wont give up ilove her too much as a character to stop using her....but really what the hell was with the developers to make a character with such crap range NO power ( ateast for how laggy they are?)

 

[SpScarecrow]

I feel like her smash attacks are more about reads than anything. I also dont see players use deep breathing enough. Gives you more damage and knockback. Full sun salutation is an easy 20% and her smashes ko at about 10 to 15% earlier. Header does 10% with deep breathing. Take advantage of the lack of matchup knowledge.

 

[ぱみゅ]

^most of that.

Plus, Slow smashes is something many, many characters have, deal with it.
And maybe range was not an issue because 1, she has two projectiles, and 2, game was thought with items on, so range was probably unheard of on Sora's offices.

I do think WFT still has a lot more potential we are yet to discover.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

It's the craftsman not the tool.

Instead of complaining in a rather inarticulate manner, maybe you should be in the lab figuring her out, finding work arounds for the flaws. You need to be more of a go getter. Like someome said before me, be patient or go play Bowser or something.

I don't mean to sound rude, simply blunt.

 

[crisspy727]

To be honest it just sounds like people need to work on their fundamentals first instead of complaining about her.

 

[Shinuto]

To be honest it just sounds like people need to work on their fundamentals first instead of complaining about her.

yeah probably

 

[Shinuto]

^most of that.

Plus, Slow smashes is something many, many characters have, deal with it.
And maybe range was not an issue because 1, she has two projectiles, and 2, game was thought with items on, so range was probably unheard of on Sora's offices.

I do think WFT still has a lot more potential we are yet to discover.

yeah but most of them are overwhelmingly powerful to compensate.

 

[ChivalRuse]

To be honest it just sounds like people need to work on their fundamentals first instead of complaining about her.

The game just came out. We can't expect WFT's metagame to stay the same years from now. Just play the game and improve!

 

[crisspy727]

The game just came out. We can't expect WFT's metagame to stay the same years from now. Just play the game and improve!

Oh i understand that but based on what he is saying it's more of a fundamental problem than WFT problems.I'm trying so hard to work on her but I'm gonna be honest we should just pick up a secondary for people who creates a wall in front of us for example Ness. If not pick a good counterpick to fix those problems like Halberd is a great stage for her since you could run around and play around with that platform also the low ceiling could net in a early Usmash kill.

 

[Shinuto]

Oh i understand that but based on what he is saying it's more of a fundamental problem than WFT problems.I'm trying so hard to work on her but I'm gonna be honest we should just pick up a secondary for people who creates a wall in front of us for example Ness. If not pick a good counterpick to fix those problems like Halberd is a great stage for her since you could run around and play around with that platform also the low ceiling could net in a early Usmash kill.

I really think she should gain an aerial that hits within that 135 degree deadspace betweeen her f air and d air.

 

[xx99]

I really think she should gain an aerial that hits within that 135 degree deadspace betweeen her f air and d air.

Does nair not fit that bill?

 

[Shinuto]

Does nair not fit that bill?

not really

 

[xx99]

You're right that she'd benefit from a f-air that hits in front of her (or 45º between in front of her and below her) like most characters have. That said, her current f-air hits in front of her at a pretty unusual that's useful for anti-air and recovering from the ledge. As far as that missing aerial coverage goes, (fast fall) n-air covers a bit of it and RAR f-air is a good option from the ground.

 

[Ganreizu]

I feel like smash 4 is more about reads than anything.

Fixed lol

 

[crisspy727]

You're right that she'd benefit from a f-air that hits in front of her (or 45º between in front of her and below her) like most characters have. That said, her current f-air hits in front of her at a pretty unusual that's useful for anti-air and recovering from the ledge. As far as that missing aerial coverage goes, (fast fall) n-air covers a bit of it and RAR f-air is a good option from the ground.

I'm also curious about RAR F-air does it actually help because every time i performed it I end up getting punished due to small hitstun at lower %.

 

[SuaveChaser]

She is a pretty good character but the issues are strong there times i get punished for doing stuff right with her.

 

[Shinuto]

She is a pretty good character but the issues are strong there times i get punished for doing stuff right with her.

like what/

 

[SpScarecrow]

Nair is awesome for those who dont DI and just fall. Shff bair....one of her aerial approaches is hindered by lag. Sakurai doesnt want us to get fit

 

[Shinuto]

Nair is awesome for those who dont DI and just fall. Shff bair....one of her aerial approaches is hindered by lag. Sakurai doesnt want us to get fit

I just understand how they could've designed her character and thought "yeah this is fine" and dont even try to say oh it was designed for with items and free for alls cause she sucks in those too compared to everyone else.


the "dont even" is NOT directed at you Scarecrow just you know, in general.

 

[madworlder]

I think that if you want the 135 angle covered, you should be jumping backwards. I'm pretty sure this character should almost always be jumping backwards.

The character's biggest flaw is the short and narrow grab range. That's really all there is worth complaining about, I think. If you're whiffing your whiff punishes, you need to work on knowing whether f-smash or d-smash is going to hit. If you aren't punishing rolls, you should use jab, f-tilt, and d-smash more.

You've got two great projectiles, good kill moves with Deep Breathing, and good (albeit situational) air normals. Don't undersell or blame the character.

 

[Shinuto]

I think that if you want the 135 angle covered, you should be jumping backwards. I'm pretty sure this character should almost always be jumping backwards.

The character's biggest flaw is the short and narrow grab range. That's really all there is worth complaining about, I think. If you're whiffing your whiff punishes, you need to work on knowing whether f-smash or d-smash is going to hit. If you aren't punishing rolls, you should use jab, f-tilt, and d-smash more.

You've got two great projectiles, good kill moves with Deep Breathing, and good (albeit situational) air normals. Don't undersell or blame the character.

I've never seen anyone say jumping backawards on here, so I dont think thats a good tactic.

 

[madworlder]

What I posted was ambiguous. You should be jumping torward the opponent with your back facing them as to b-air them. You don't have to if you don't want, I guess.

 

[Shinuto]

What I posted was ambiguous. You should be jumping torward the opponent with your back facing them as to b-air them. You don't have to if you don't want, I guess.

that has horirrible lag! you...you have no idea how bad that move is if you're honeslty suggesting that

 

[madworlder]

You wanted to cover the 135 angle, I gave you a way to do it. You still have the option of hitting them with reverse F-air and all of your other aerial attacks while jumping back turned.

 

[Shinuto]

You wanted to cover the 135 angle, I gave you a way to do it. You still have the option of hitting them with reverse F-air and all of your other aerial attacks while jumping back turned.

these all suck agianst shield....and I cant punish anything cause every hit to my shield pushes me away 50 feet and then they just roll away....can SOMEONE please just give me their ID cause apprently all you people seem to be good WFTs and I just suck ass.


I've literally been using every single piece of advice said here and NOTHING works I still get trashed by asshole falcons amd links like their SS Tier players I need a demonstration, someone to PROVE to me in a fight that I'm wrong about all this and that I just suck..at least then I know for sure Im at fault.

 

[madworlder]

Against shield, back turned jump is great, you can empty jump and get pivot grab easy when you hit the ground. Also, the reverse hit of f-air does a lot of shield damage.

 

[Shinuto]

Against shield, back turned jump is great, you can empty jump and get pivot grab easy when you hit the ground. Also, the reverse hit of f-air does a lot of shield damage.

the only thing a reverse fair has gotten me is the occasional spike or a free grab or attack from my opponent.

 

[SpScarecrow]

Roll cancel shield grab works wonders. Has anyone tried pivot downsmash? I can do it pretty consistently and im playing on 3ds for now but applying it is rough cause of the lag. Fsmash can beat rolls cause of the back hit box and Dsmash is great because of its horizontal launch. I wish we had a guaranteed throw combo option.

 

[SpScarecrow]

the only thing a reverse fair has gotten me is the occasional spike or a free grab or attack from my opponent.

I've had more success with sh dair. I always get the fair spike on stage. Sorry for the double post

 

[Shinuto]

Roll cancel shield grab works wonders. Has anyone tried pivot downsmash? I can do it pretty consistently and im playing on 3ds for now but applying it is rough cause of the lag. Fsmash can beat rolls cause of the back hit box and Dsmash is great because of its horizontal launch. I wish we had a guaranteed throw combo option.

how the **** do you do roll cancel grab?

 

[SpScarecrow]

The moment you roll instantly press grab. Think plinking from other fighting games. If you're doing it right it'll look like dash grab but you'll get the spark of a fast fall.

 

[Shinuto]

The moment you roll instantly press grab. Think plinking from other fighting games. If you're doing it right it'll look like dash grab but you'll get the spark of a fast fall.

i just end up roling

 

[SpScarecrow]

Try holding shield then pressing forward and grab at the same time

 

[Niala]

that has horirrible lag! you...you have no idea how bad that move is if you're honeslty suggesting that

RAR Bair is actually really powerful, there's a video in the critique thread with WFT vs. Sheik where the player uses it frequently and to great effect.

You wanted to cover the 135 angle, I gave you a way to do it. You still have the option of hitting them with reverse F-air and all of your other aerial attacks while jumping back turned.

The problem with that angle is that saying "whenever you're in the air just face away from them" isn't exactly feasible. The fact of the matter is that whenever you're in the air there's a massive deadspot where she has no way to threaten an approach, and that angle is one a lot of characters like to approach at. Working around that isn't as simple as just saying "well just jump backwards."

Take Diddy Kong for example. WFT's Bair can outrange everything he does in the air, but what if he just DThrows her? She ends up facing him and her only option against a follow-up (assuming of course these are higher percents where the DThrow isn't a true combo,) is a timely air dodge. It's not an issue of spacing or how you can proactively cover her aerially, but how you can react in order to cover a space where she's dead in the water.

 

[Meek Moths]

i dont main wft but play her solely for fun and i still rek most players on 4g, just get gut