How could Sakurai and his team NOT realized how glaring WFT's flaws are?

[Shinuto]

wh

I agree smashes has atrocious frames and their damage is pity compared to their high knockbacks. WHY??
I think wii fit trainer's damage output is overrated or lets say too much sun salutation heavy! It gets staled very quickly.. Aerials does good damage but thats compansated with their lag or range so there is nothing special. Her punishing game is also sun salutation reliant. I cant punish rolls effectively with wft as other characters. And, deep breathing is underwhelming. Getting a nice kill with ftilt or back throw is nice but thats so occasional and all other effects are negligible.

what would you suggest?

 

[gByron]

wh

what would you suggest?

Fsmash or dsmash should be quicker. Its essential for reads punishes and kills. Ftilt alone is not enough for ground kills and gets staled. Gimping and projectiles are very good but most of the time I kill with very high percentages. Deep breathing should be buffed. More duration or further effects.. because they designed her like deep breathing is always active. Otherwise she is kinda underwhelming. Its just me

 

[dahuterschuter]

I've come to realize that Sakman didn't care much for balancing.

 

[A-money2121]

I've decided to make this list of improvements that I think would make Wii Fit Trainer a rather more easy to use and competitive character.

Standard attack: I think this is fine as it is.

Tilt: I think this is fine as is as well. It can hit your opponent from either side which is impressive.

Dash attack: Give it a new attack. The current one has end lag, which is long enough for someone to punish you.

Up tilt: Pretty good as is. It can juggle characters, similar to Mario's up tilt.

Down tilt: Slightly less end lag.

Grab: The grab range is simply awful. Increase her grab range.

Throws: Her throws are fine. Give one of them KO potential.

N-air: I've got mixed feelings about this one. I suppose it's fine as it is.

F-air: Give her another f-air attack. One with a better hit box - one that would attack your opponent in front of you instead of above, - and less end lag.

U-air: Fine as it is.

B-air: Better hit box.

D-air: Better hit box.

N-special: Give it slightly less start up and ending lag

D-special: Perhaps also allow deep breathing to increase speed, jump, and defense (unless it already does, and I don't know about it).

S-special: Make aiming the ball easier.

U-special: Fine as it is.

U-smash: Give it a better hit box, so that u-smash would be reliable on ground opponents (it can only hit characters above you).

S-smash: Fine as it is.

D-smash: Slightly less end lag.

 

[PUK]

His/her Fair is really good, most of the time you can place yourself in the right spot and it has a good AC window, and if you want to hit forward you can Nair (oh it combos with itself until mid percent and does ton of damage) or reverse back air (it kills). Ftilt is awesome, i use more and more reverse Ftilt on halberd or anything with a low ceiling, it's just ugly. And reverse i don't have the landing crouch issue and this is fine.
Sideb control is not hard: the further you are the sooner you push b.
The grab range is not the biggest issue: it's just f6, and that suck because every notable jab of the game beat it.
B air is a short sex kick. And d air can stage spike, as even the non meteor hitbox delivers huge KB

 

[⑨ball]

Fsmash or dsmash should be quicker. Its essential for reads punishes and kills. Ftilt alone is not enough for ground kills and gets staled. Gimping and projectiles are very good but most of the time I kill with very high percentages. Deep breathing should be buffed. More duration or further effects.. because they designed her like deep breathing is always active. Otherwise she is kinda underwhelming. Its just me

Fsmash is actually pretty average as far as how fast it comes out. Speed is not necessary for reads at all, which should be obvious when some of the slowest moves in their category are some of the most commonly seen reads (Villager's Tree, Ike's Usmash, Mario's fair). It could be argued to be necessary for punishes, but only in comparison to what you're trying to punish. Most of the time a move's power will be proportionate to it's recovery time, meaning you shouldn't be trying to punish things like jab on shield with dsmash. Kills definitely not, as was pointed out with reads.

Ftilt is not her only kill move and isn't even her fastest one. Even the fastest characters can have issues killing. Sheik is actually pretty notorious for this. WFT certainly has options to kill fairly early and without committing too hard. If you find you're getting too high in percentage, take a closer look at your matches and see where you can improve. I've had my off matches where I couldn't kill until 140+ myself, but my average is probably around 90-100 if not lower from gimps and good reads.

The grab range is not the biggest issue: it's just f6, and that suck because every notable jab of the game beat it.

Frame 6 is the fastest grabs get in smash 4 according to the data we've collected so far. The issues with her grab as far as I can see are the small and high set hitbubble--which makes her whiff tiny animations and her shield stance not being well suited for her neutral stance/grab animation--which makes her whiff on shield attacks characters like megaman would have grabbed.

There's also her thin frame in a sense, which means she has to be closer to grab than characters with larger frames(read every other character in the game lol), but also means she's harder to grab for the same reason(outside of shield anyway).

 

[PUK]

Did not know that.

 

[Luxent]

I
D-special: Perhaps also allow deep breathing to increase speed, jump, and defense (unless it already does, and I don't know about it).

I hate the D-Special because (A) It only increases each hit by 1-2 %, and (B) Wii Fit Trainer is quick tricky to do combos with. Even if you manage to get a combo of 5-6 hits, it only amounts to an additional 10% or so. The damage given really should increase to like 4-5% per hit.

Comparing it to Shulk with Buster.
Shulk's FSmash goes from 21 to 29.
S-tilt goes from 14 to 20
Up tilt goes from 8 to 12.
D tilt foes from 8 to 11.

Not to mention I personally never notice a difference in WTF's knockback with deep breathing.
It just goes to show underwhelming WFT is.... which is tragic. ;(

 

[⑨ball]

I hate the D-Special because (A) It only increases each hit by 1-2 %, and (B) Wii Fit Trainer is quick tricky to do combos with. Even if you manage to get a combo of 5-6 hits, it only amounts to an additional 10% or so. The damage given really should increase to like 4-5% per hit.

Comparing it to Shulk with Buster.
Shulk's FSmash goes from 21 to 29.
S-tilt goes from 14 to 20
Up tilt goes from 8 to 12.
D tilt foes from 8 to 11.

Not to mention I personally never notice a difference in WTF's knockback with deep breathing.
It just goes to show underwhelming WFT is.... which is tragic. ;(

a)
DB increases damage by x1.16 meaning the additional percentage you add on is based on the damage you originally deal out. It also reduces damage taken by x0.9 and accordingly increases knockback(as a result of the damage).

Meanwhile Shulk's buster deals x1.4 and increases damage taken by x1.13 while also cutting his knockback significantly.

b)
Practice then? WFT's combos are pretty simple as are her strings.

Comparing DB to Buster is pretty silly anyway and doesn't take into account their character types. It only makes sense that a heavy character like Shulk that's reliant on spacing with high commitment moves should do more damage for his singular hit based playstyle while the combo oriented character would do less. This is how asynchronous balancing works.

For example Shulk landing a hard punish Fsmash with Buster is 29%. A hard punish with WFT without DB in a 5 hit combo(nair,nair, uair) is 38%(no staling). It's pretty clear which character a damage buff is more sensible for.

If you're not noticing a difference in knockback you're probably not paying attention. DB's knockback increase is typically the equivalent of an additional 15-20% with moves like usmash that normally kill around 90-95% killing around 70-75%.

 

[Fancykong]

Not to mention I personally never notice a difference in WTF's knockback with deep breathing.
It just goes to show underwhelming WFT is.... which is tragic. ;(

Hey, when you're fighting heavy characters or ones that can make huge comebacks (like Lucario), you'll want every extra bit of knockback that you can get.

 

[NirvanaNexus]

Not to mention I personally never notice a difference in WTF's knockback with deep breathing.
It just goes to show underwhelming WFT is.... which is tragic. ;(

There is a knockback difference, but you don't notice from DI or if you outright kill them. I bookmark many characters I like to use from japanese players on Vine and they really put in alot of work into the characters.
+ DownB can be used to get up on the ledge faster too in the recent videos.

WiiFit's Knockback distances on Ganondorf (Can't post links since I just made this account, yea I'm a lurker lol)

https: //vine.co/v/OxtYzdKIA3i
1. F-smash without Breathing or Rage.
2. F-smash + Breathing without Rage.
3. F-smash + Breathing + Rage.

There are many thing people don't take into consideration with WiiFit, but I kinda like that it's an underused character. I don't expect any changes on the character when MewTwo comes, but I hope for just simple changes like a wider hitbox on Forward Tilt for short characters and grab range. WiiFit's crouch is crazy and I've been surviving up to 200% on some matches. I study this player and the Falco/WiiFit main guy as well. He found that she can slide during her crouch by simply reversing your dash and just crouch. So she can preform sliding tilts or whatever you want to do. Again, I just hate that her attacks whiff on short people. That's the most annoying thing about the character for me, but love and main her.

She's a meteor monster and I mostly win with spikes from the header or just tilts XD

 

[Shinuto]

There is a knockback difference, but you don't notice from DI or if you outright kill them. I bookmark many characters I like to use from japanese players on Vine and they really put in alot of work into the characters.
+ DownB can be used to get up on the ledge faster too in the recent videos.

WiiFit's Knockback distances on Ganondorf (Can't post links since I just made this account, yea I'm a lurker lol)

https: //vine.co/v/OxtYzdKIA3i
1. F-smash without Breathing or Rage.
2. F-smash + Breathing without Rage.
3. F-smash + Breathing + Rage.

There are many thing people don't take into consideration with WiiFit, but I kinda like that it's an underused character. I don't expect any changes on the character when MewTwo comes, but I hope for just simple changes like a wider hitbox on Forward Tilt for short characters and grab range. WiiFit's crouch is crazy and I've been surviving up to 200% on some matches. I study this player and the Falco/WiiFit main guy as well. He found that she can slide during her crouch by simply reversing your dash and just crouch. So she can preform sliding tilts or whatever you want to do. Again, I just hate that her attacks whiff on short people. That's the most annoying thing about the character for me, but love and main her.

She's a meteor monster and I mostly win with spikes from the header or just tilts XD

oh defintely short characters piss me off...especially that broken Villager who can just wall everything with knockback slingshot and dumb spam rockets.

 

[⑨ball]

There is a knockback difference, but you don't notice from DI or if you outright kill them. I bookmark many characters I like to use from japanese players on Vine and they really put in alot of work into the characters.
+ DownB can be used to get up on the ledge faster too in the recent videos.

Yeah the Japanese WFT metagame is advancing at pretty much the same pace. They've got the same general amount of players so tech for her tends to develop pretty slowly compared to characters like Diddy.

https: //vine.co/v/OxtYzdKIA3

Do you know what this player's name/tag is? I'd like to credit him if i link to his videos in the future.

There are many thing people don't take into consideration with WiiFit, but I kinda like that it's an underused character. I don't expect any changes on the character when MewTwo comes, but I hope for just simple changes like a wider hitbox on Forward Tilt for short characters and grab range.

It's possible we might get something. WFT has been one of the few characters that's been changed consistently every patch. I doubt they'd do something as helpful as resizing her hitbubbles or the hurtbubbles on certain character's animations, but it's not completely out of the question to hope.

Guaranteed Greninja and Little Mac nerfs on the way. Little Mac's UpB now travels downwards, Greninja's shuriken now damages him on charge. #balanced

WiiFit's crouch is crazy and I've been surviving up to 200% on some matches. I study this player and the Falco/WiiFit main guy as well. He found that she can slide during her crouch by simply reversing your dash and just crouch. So she can preform sliding tilts or whatever you want to do. Again, I just hate that her attacks whiff on short people. That's the most annoying thing about the character for me, but love and main her.

She's a meteor monster and I mostly win with spikes from the header or just tilts XD

Yeah, crouch canceling is still a thing, and is pretty good for WFT who wants to be crouched against approaches anyway. Can you Link the other player?

That sliding thing works with a lot of characters but is best with WFT, Yoshi, Wario, and Greninja (debatably in that order imo). A few others can use it, but their active times on the neutral state from turning around isn't as long(ex;Luigi, Mario, Rosalina), or they have bad turnaround animations making it near useless(Fire emblem cast ): ).

I don't mind the whiffing on intent. Like if i'm playing G&W or Kirby, and they intentionally duck to limit my options, I'm fine with that, but it's really silly that this also applies to recovering animations and I'd love to see something done about that not just for WFT but the cast.

 

[Shinuto]

w

Yeah the Japanese WFT metagame is advancing at pretty much the same pace. They've got the same general amount of players so tech for her tends to develop pretty slowly compared to characters like Diddy.



Do you know what this player's name/tag is? I'd like to credit him if i link to his videos in the future.



It's possible we might get something. WFT has been one of the few characters that's been changed consistently every patch. I doubt they'd do something as helpful as resizing her hitbubbles or the hurtbubbles on certain character's animations, but it's not completely out of the question to hope.

Guaranteed Greninja and Little Mac nerfs on the way. Little Mac's UpB now travels downwards, Greninja's shuriken now damages him on charge. #balanced


Yeah, crouch canceling is still a thing, and is pretty good for WFT who wants to be crouched against approaches anyway. Can you Link the other player?

That sliding thing works with a lot of characters but is best with WFT, Yoshi, Wario, and Greninja (debatably in that order imo). A few others can use it, but their active times on the neutral state from turning around isn't as long(ex;Luigi, Mario, Rosalina), or they have bad turnaround animations making it near useless(Fire emblem cast ): ).

I don't mind the whiffing on intent. Like if i'm playing G&W or Kirby, and they intentionally duck to limit my options, I'm fine with that, but it's really silly that this also applies to recovering animations and I'd love to see something done about that not just for WFT but the cast.[/quotwe]
wait 9 ball we never became friends so i could fight your wft

 

[NirvanaNexus]

Do you know what this player's name/tag is? I'd like to credit him if i link to his videos in the future.

It's possible we might get something. WFT has been one of the few characters that's been changed consistently every patch. I doubt they'd do something as helpful as resizing her hitbubbles or the hurtbubbles on certain character's animations, but it's not completely out of the question to hope.

Guaranteed Greninja and Little Mac nerfs on the way. Little Mac's UpB now travels downwards, Greninja's shuriken now damages him on charge. #balanced

Yeah, crouch canceling is still a thing, and is pretty good for WFT who wants to be crouched against approaches anyway. Can you Link the other player?

That sliding thing works with a lot of characters but is best with WFT, Yoshi, Wario, and Greninja (debatably in that order imo). A few others can use it, but their active times on the neutral state from turning around isn't as long(ex;Luigi, Mario, Rosalina), or they have bad turnaround animations making it near useless(Fire emblem cast ): ).
I don't mind the whiffing on intent. Like if i'm playing G&W or Kirby, and they intentionally duck to limit my options, I'm fine with that, but it's really silly that this also applies to recovering animations and I'd love to see something done about that not just for WFT but the cast.

アデリィ (Aderyi)
//vine.co/u/1164265105836355584
This is the one who is strictly WiiFitTrainer. Just woke up today and seen he's created a stage to showcase how to control a canceled header's Trajectory and where it flies. I'll link his success of edge guards and jab bury KOs in case people didnt know you can link it into Nair/uptilt kills. He has also shown better recovery options for many of the vast. I'll post the WiiFit specific thing though and I'll go back some weeks for the main ones I think you need to see used by him. I JUST recently saw his video of up smash's invincibility frames while posting this so I'm added that here. Hopefully I'm not breaking rules with these links and I added their names and vine links to credit them.

-WiiFit Header Cancel Trajectory control
//vine.co/v/OLZO32bXhiX
//vine.co/v/OLqggtF059L
-WiiFit downed animation hitbox vs Lucina's (Attacks whiff WFT, but hits Lucina. WFT's hitbox dodges even downed lol)
//vine.co/v/O3Hb95K3j3I
//vine.co/v/O3HbueWebmq
-WiiFit Invincibility Up Smash vs Mario F Smash (Slow Mo)
//vine.co/v/O3BXZuBQAWB
-WiiFit powerful 61% Nair > Header (It's old, but people fighting WFT seem to forgot how strong this is against aggressive players. AKA Falcons and Little Macs)
//vine.co/v/OYEFYIntdz6
-WiiFit powerful 74% Breathing Nair > Header (This is why I feel Breathing shouldn't be increased like Shulk's Buster. It's easy to do this compared to Shulk.)
//vine.co/v/OVPapml5A79 (
-WiiFit Fair vs ledge stale villager (Works on anyone pretty much, regrab ledge = free meteor)
//vine.co/v/OYrAEK0gemY
-WiiFit Bury > Nair > UpSmash kos
//vine.co/v/OYqQr9HzEuh
//vine.co/v/OEqOPK1gTmI
-WiiFit Bury > Uptilt > UpSmash kos
//vine.co/v/OxTKzAOgETQ
-WiiFit Bury Bait > Nair > UpAir Ko
//vine.co/v/OVruVpmZ1vu
-WiiFit Defensive Header > gimp > Header spike ko (Exactly how she can turn a losing battle into a win in seconds.)
//vine.co/v/OYZYL6tFz5U
//vine.co/v/OYZV7m0Xx3T
//vine.co/v/OQllugrwiYn
-WiiFit Down B ledge recovery speed vs Normal get up (Gotta jump + downB to do this.)
//vine.co/v/O9QxgTpAnV9
-WiiFit Rage Breathing knockback vs 60% Sheik (Hope this helps show Breathing's influence on how fast it potentially can kill.)
//vine.co/v/OUbTMt5eWha

It gives you more time to follow up with your aerials since it has them spinning. DI kinda helps avoid the followups normally, but I haven't seen anyone DI out of my aerials if I have breathing on.

おじぃ (Oji~i)
//vine.co/u/1128003368770584576
Here is the Falco/WiiFitTrainer player. I believe he recently started using the character as a 2nd for his Falco. I started using Reflector more due to him showing it for jab locking combos from platforms and gimping. He even shows off his death moments, which are funny. I'll just post his WiiFit to stay on topic, but you can view his falco from his page if you want.

-Wiifit platform Uptilt> Fair foot > Fsmash ko
//vine.co/v/OQn352i50BZ
-WiiFit slide distance + tilt usage
//vine.co/v/OQvW7MenTnK
-Wiifit Anti Sheik Recovery with Header edgeguard.
//vine.co/v/O2QzF5Z9wi5
-WiiFit slide into Ftilt KO
//vine.co/v/OEetPjQ9vKU
-WiiFit DownB Ledge recovery > Grab (It instantly gets up on the stage for offense or defense, A Ganondorf does something similar too on my other bookmark.)
//vine.co/v/OEYBvQDD3ta

These two have been experimenting with WFT the most so far out of the vine players I've found of Smash. I didn't post everything, but mainly wanted to show how they counter some things and what strategies they have been successful with against other players.

 

[moofpi]

The Header has always been one of her most interesting aspects to me. From early videos it looked like she could do so much with it, but in practice it is rather limiting/underwhelming (to my expectations). Here are some changes to her header move I thought she would have had and probably should have had.

• A little more time from canceling a header to perform a move to launch the ball in the desired direction before it disappears. -This is one reason I love the Huge Header so much, it has all the utility that I believed the default to have from the beginning (though naturally more so).
• When canceling the header, I believe it should retain a weak hit box that can gimp similar to Sonic's spring or a Z-dropped turnip/buzzsaw. Instead it literally becomes neutral and useless unless struck by you or more likely your enemy at you.
• Finally, and this ties into the two previous points, I do not think Wii Fit Trainer should go into free fall when canceling the header. This gives her more time to perform a move, or at least the desired move, almost immediately on the ball. This would give her a projectile more unpredictable as Mega Man's buzzsaw. Then again it would probably be more fair for her to go into free fall if she was able to gimp with the canceled ball, seeing as she would probably be standing on or above the ledge when she cancels it and it wouldn't be cool if she could immediately chase down while you're being gimped.

Besides that I just have the usual qualms, such as her deep breathing healing more. Less than 10%, probably 7%. Sun Salutation can heal 4%. Also fixed hit bubbles, most notably Up Smash. If she's not able to hit shorties with her Fsmash/Ftilt, then at least increase the hit bubbles on Dsmash/Dtilt.

 

[Falco_Phantasm]

Well she does have something that help her (although not major):
-Jab buries opponents
-Down Air is like C.P's
-Most smashes have super armor
-Her/his down throw can link into to some decent stuff
-Neutral air is freaking amazing

 

[⑨ball]

@ Shinuto Your quote got a little messed up but I think I got what you were trying to say and I know. Things have just been more hectic than I thought. A lot of time and money that I wanted to use for gaming has gone towards home renovation and business expansion. A bit regrettable, but I haven't forget you or any one else and I'll be going up against everyone I can when things settle down.

Well she does have something that help her (although not major):
-Jab buries opponents
-Down Air is like C.P's
-Most smashes have super armor
-Her/his down throw can link into to some decent stuff
-Neutral air is freaking amazing

>dair is actually slower and weaker than Falcon's
>none of her smashes have super armor
>dthrow isn't a guaranteed link into anything ever

-snip-

Thanks, NN~
I'll be sure to credit them when I make my update rounds as I'll most likely be adding in their videos . I plan on keeping an eye on them both to see if they come across anything new as well.

 

[Niala]

I'd also like to add that WFT's Dair also has a much worse hitbox than Falcon's. She has to be pretty dead on (sort of like USmash) in order to hit the spike. If you hit slightly to the left or right you'll get the soft hit instead. Falcon's is kinda crazy in that if the opponent is anywhere below you, they'll probably get spiked anyway.

Also, I've been thinking about it, and I'm pretty sure WFT would be a contender for the best character in the game if she actually could follow-up on her dthrow. Can you imagine 0% every stock getting a grab and using dthrow>nair>nair>header? I feel like that would be crazy, that's like 60% or something thereabouts immediately. It's interesting to me that one little change has the power to really send a character over the edge.

 

[moofpi]

I totally agree on the Dair. Falcon and Dorf get it easily, but her's is only slightly easier than Falco's to land. I play Zard too and I Dair all day, but trying to land 2/3 of WFT's meteors is a workout.

Also buff Fair, I think the back foot should be able to shield stab.

 

[Niala]

The reverse fair shield stab was really nice to have access too, and especially now that I've practiced her a lot more I'm sure I'd be able to apply it better than I was able to before. I admit it was clearly a mistake, but a mistake that I miss.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Too bad its difficult to hit her dair spike

 

[⑨ball]

It's not that hard~

It's just that in comparison to a lot of other spikes it's a bit lacking. Which is pretty much fine since she has two alternative spikes with header probably being one of the best in the game.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Yeah her header spike is great

 

[Shinuto]

God I hope in 1.06 they do some buffs to WFT.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

I'm really hoping that too. Possibly fix her hitboxes as well as her grab range.

 

[gByron]

As a new patch is announced the first thing I think about is that they will buff deep breathing. WFTs discussed this forever but in what way they would actually consider to buff WFT or would they just skip her?

 

[ぱみゅ]

No way man, Deep Breathing is fine. Buff her grounded stuff like Usmash or dtil,.

 

[Niala]

All I want for Christmas is a DThrow buff.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

how bout being able to hit smaller characters with her forward smash

 

[PUK]

She's not alone in this case actually. And most small char Will be hit if not in landing or crouching animation.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

She's not alone in this case actually. And most small char Will be hit if not in landing or crouching animation.

Well she's throwing her foot forward too during it, just give that a hitbox and we're good

 

[Pazx]

All you guys talking about buffs and we have a WFT who doesn't drop games in our region. I'm terrified.

 

[⑨ball]

All you guys talking about buffs and we have a WFT who doesn't drop games in our region. I'm terrified.

Waveguider's pretty dope. I'm pretty sure he'd do much better if he didn't have to worry about getting janked out by inexplicably tiny hitboxes.

 

[PUK]

WFT is hard to use. Perfect spacing without Marth reward seems not that good.
But if we look at his frame data, the damage, the kill options, the recovery, the mobility, and matchup repartition WFT is clearly in Top 15.

 

[speedguy20]

At least WFT's dair doesn't have a chance to send people upwards like Marth/Lucina's. Besides WFT has a really good zoning game

 

[⑨ball]

At least WFT's dair doesn't have a chance to send people upwards like Marth/Lucina's. Besides WFT has a really good zoning game

The sourspot on dair actually works similar to other dairs and will send them at an upwards diagonal angle.

To be honest I'm praying for buffs for Lucina more than changes to any other character, and really just hoping these "balance tweaks" are fixes to absurd things like matching hitboxes to animations.

 

[Shinuto]

The sourspot on dair actually works similar to other dairs and will send them at an upwards diagonal angle.

To be honest I'm praying for buffs for Lucina more than changes to any other character, and really just hoping these "balance tweaks" are fixes to absurd things like matching hitboxes to animations.

how so it is so absurd.... I mean like any examples that dont fit the hitboxes?

 

[⑨ball]

There's too many for me to name but some really obvious ones you can check easily to see are:

• Mario's cape. It's turn around properties are tied to the swinging of the cape but it's reflect properties start much earlier for some reason.
• Kirby's recovering animation and recovering animations in general. This is actually lower than his crouch making mistakes much safer than deliberate attempts to dodge which is pretty stupid.
• Metaknight is pretty much the poster child for this and he has multiple moves that not only come in contact with the opponent, but some that can go completely through to the other side and not have active hitboxes there.
• Diddy's fair. Has a small disjoint on it, meaning he can do things like blowup bob-ombs and take no damage despite being a brawler type character who's hit and hurt boxes are meant to overlap.

These are specific examples but they're not the only ones of their type, just the easiest to see/test.

 

[Shinuto]

There's too many for me to name but some really obvious ones you can check easily to see are:

• Mario's cape. It's turn around properties are tied to the swinging of the cape but it's reflect properties start much earlier for some reason.
• Kirby's recovering animation and recovering animations in general. This is actually lower than his crouch making mistakes much safer than deliberate attempts to dodge which is pretty stupid.
• Metaknight is pretty much the poster child for this and he has multiple moves that not only come in contact with the opponent, but some that can go completely through to the other side and not have active hitboxes there.
• Diddy's fair. Has a small disjoint on it, meaning he can do things like blowup bob-ombs and take no damage despite being a brawler type character who's hit and hurt boxes are meant to overlap.

These are specific examples but they're not the only ones of their type, just the easiest to see/test.

so what should be done to WFT?