How characters should earn the special

[Chaos Samus]

me and my roomates were just talking about, this but i have a question: WhyTurn them off?

I mean so many other games have moves that you can turn off, why should this be any diffrent

 

[The 5th Police]

Its obvious how they will get there special by the smash symbol. I've heard some people say it should a bar that you build up like street fighter. However, it should just be an item that you can turn off instead of it being mandatory. That is just how I feel it should be.

 

[Bolshoi]

I think it would be best if it was when the crowd cheered for you. That way the cheers could actually have an affect on gameplay. Falco's cult following could build up the demonic energy as time passes =)

I just had an idea that could expand on this one. If you're doing well enough, and the crowd starts cheering, the smash symbol appears. Now, from this point, they could make it one of two ways.

1: Only the person who got the crowd riled can get the smash symbol. This could make it like a keep away type thing, where the other characters could stand on the symbol/try to prevent you from reaching it by any means neccessary.

2: The character that gets there first gets the symbol. This could make the fight very interesting. It could be either a mega flashy finisher, if the current leader gets it, or it could turn the tide of battle, putting the underdog ahead.

I think the 2nd one could make for some very interesting matches.

 

[Red Exodus]

We don't even know if there's even super smashes in this game, Wario Waft could be one of his abilities that works based on time (nothing like this was ever in any SSB) I doubt a bar will indicate when Wario is ready to blow but I have a feeling that the indicator will be visual and audio instead of a bar. I don't think Super Smashes would achieve Sakurai's vision of an easier SSB it will only make it harder.

 

[Chaos Samus]

Its obvious how they will get there special by the smash symbol. I've heard some people say it should a bar that you build up like street fighter. However, it should just be an item that you can turn off instead of it being mandatory. That is just how I feel it should be.

Yeah that what im talking about, Why do people want to turn them off? I mean i can go play street fighter, Guilty Gear X2(Thats a good fighting game too) or King of Fighters and not worry about turning them off why should we for ssbb, Not to mention if we do have wavedashing and other stuff you will most like be able WD then o your while coming out of it

 

[Red Exodus]

We want to turn them off because them are potentially major tide shifters, no one likes major tide shifters, like some legendary pokemon and bomb-ombs .

 

[Chaos Samus]

We want to turn them off because them are potentially major tide shifters, no one likes major tide shifters, like some legendary pokemon and bomb-ombs .

Yeah i know, but thats what supers are all about and they can turn the tide of any battle on any game, I Mean when i have Half health then get one SHIN-Shouryuken and die yeah that counts as a tide Shifter

 

[Red Exodus]

Exactly, so new players might become dependant on them, wth could create campers or whatever just to get the super smashes, they might not take any skill at all to acquire which could favor new players over ones who play SSBB (when it comes out) more.

 

[Bolshoi]

We don't even know if there's even super smashes in this game, Wario Waft could be one of his abilities that works based on time (nothing like this was ever in any SSB) I doubt a bar will indicate when Wario is ready to blow but I have a feeling that the indicator will be visual and audio instead of a bar. I don't think Super Smashes would achieve Sakurai's vision of an easier SSB it will only make it harder.

Wario Waft is a normal skill. I'm pretty sure it says that on the official site. Ya know, like a D+B attack or sumthin.

But they wouldn't have featured things as big as Mario's super fire ball, Link's Tri-Force attack, and Kirby's Cook, just to make the trailer more flashy. Things like that are featured to stir up hype and excitement. If they were taken out of the game, that would be very counter productive.

And I don't see how they could make the game harder. If nothing else, they could make it easier, at the very worst, different. And either way, they would make the battle fun

 

[Red Exodus]

It would make it harder (for new players) because better players will beat the crap out of new players and use the super smash against them, which will unbalance things more than normal (in terms of a good player vs a new one).

 

[Bolshoi]

..Better players will always beat the crap out of newer players. If someone who is very practiced in the art of Wavedashing, SHFFLing, L-canceling, and edge hogging goes up against someone who only plays casually, the expert is going to own the casual hands down, no problems at all. The only things the Smash icons will do is make it more flashy.

And if anyone can get the Smash icon, then the scale could tip either way. But no matter what, the skilled player will always obliterate the casual player.

 

[Red Exodus]

Exactly so it's not easier, it would be harder. Even without all of the advanced techs.

 

[MetalLuigi1209]

If the smash icon appears for both characters to use, the tier list may change completely. All the speedy characters would be at the top, like Capt. Falcon, and Marth, and slower characters would be towards the bottom, like Bowser and Zelda, since the special can easily change the course of a match.

 

[Red Exodus]

They won't change since MLG doesn't use items in their tournaments.

 

[Bolshoi]

Exactly so it's not easier, it would be harder. Even without all of the advanced techs.

I'm saying it won't be easier OR harder. Just more flashy. The better player will aways win. Always. New players will NEVER win, or even come close to winning against people who are practiced in advanced techniques. Even with the Super Smashes. It can quickly turn the tide in a close battle, but I think that adds a little more fun to it.

 

[nux23]

hat if they placed them hidden somewhere on the stage for the characters to find, maybe.. invisibl;e???

 

[FireBomb]

I always thought it'd be better if it acted like the barrel cannon. It barely shows up, and when it does, it disappears noticably faster than any other item. Imagine the chaos of everyone scrambling to it before it goes away, and the one who gets it has the pleasure of blasting everyone who failed to do so. So go for it and risk getting massive damage, or hide out somewhere until the smoke clears... that would make the most sense to me.

 

[wiivolution]

Well don't know or care whether it's an item or not I just hope it works well. Also I bet you if Sonic makes the cut his chaos control will be oh so sweet.Btw when has Nintendo led us astray? The very name translates to "Trust in Luck" so let's just meditate and train for the coming online greatness.

 

[Red Exodus]

Sonic doesn't use Chaos control, Shadow does. IF Sonic has a super smash it will probably involve the emeralds and him turning into Super Sonic, Sonic doesn't really have any other transformations or power ups per se.

 

[FroZombie]

I think it should be based on the crowd solely as that's the only thing that seems fair. However I think there should be different "states' in which it becomes a factor. Whenever the crowd cheers it should pop up a "condition" which has to be adhered to for you to use the smash move. It fades away with the crowd however so depending on the condition and the loudness of the crowd it can last for longer or for shorter. Some of the conditions could be as such:

"Underdog"
Smash item appears on stage HOWEVER it can only be acquired by a character if they were the last person to recieve a hit within a few moments of grabbing it - which means if two people are brawling over it, only the on that's on the run can use it.

Or

If one player has significantly lower health + lives than the other but has performed well enough to warrant praise, the "underdog" condition could be activated... HOWEVER this condition carries with it a price - should they fail the conditions requirements (like perform a fully charged smash or not be killed for a set period of time) then will in turn their OPPONENT will recieve the super move and their second chance will be spent.

I also think that this condition should have to be "accepted" by the underdog for it to occur at all.


"Overkill" or "Mercy Rule" condition (or a nicer term for it)

One player has outperformed the other so significantly both in amount of life remaining, technical score, that the crowd plays the "mercy rule". The mercy rule either causes the move to occur and end the match, or the other player gets a free super smash move to counter the landslide. This could also only be accepted in the first case by the stronger player, or by the weaker player - they'd have to "confirm" the rule in case they didn't want it.

"Bully"
One individual has used a number of "tricks" to gain a high score (an abundance of "item kills", spike moves, and such) and they get a free super smash. The crowd may or may not boo when it comes up. However accepting the "bully" condition comes at a price - you lose a life, or it may backfire resulting in the crowd cheering. Generally it should fail and just be there to annoy people .

"Sacrifice"
You recieve the opportunity to sacrifice a life to pull off a smash move - this will not end the match should you eliminate with the move but it can miss resulting in your failure - this should be activated and then you should have to fulfill a requirement for it to occur or not - should you be unable to do the "sacrifice" condition you'll lose a portion of life and afterwards the crowd will not cheer for you and thusly you will recieve no other smash moves till the end of the match. The requirement could be landing a fully charged smash move or possibly living a long while, or simply putting 50% damage down on an enemy in a specific time limit. It's sort of a match ender if you're good. It could be initiated by a number of conditions, like your life exceeding 300% or being on your last life in a team battle.

"Sudden Death"
In a 1 v 1 if the life of two individuals health exceeds 300% it is reset to zero and the characters are made near impossible to knock off. However it becomes a stamina battle henceforth - the first player to recieve 111% life will receive the bad end of a smash and it is unavoidable. Items are turned off during this condition and it is automatic - players do not need to confirm it as it is difficult enough to achieve in a real match.

"Chance"
In any match if a certain condition is met, a special condition like all players dieing within a certain timeslot, if all the players confirm it then a die is cast or a special number displayed and a random condition is instilled on a player. Special "Chances" could be like "sacrifice chance" or "penalty chance" which instill a specified condition.

It's a start, I think a lot of this is based too little on skill... will have to revamp later.

Speaking of "later".

 

[Moon Monkey]

they should earn special by fulling up a guage under the percentage of the chracter that is fulled up when you land hit but will go down or drasticly once you die and you can press the bottom arrow on the plus pad

 

[Ensee]

I think there should be gauges below each players number of stock that goes from a faded red (left) to a faded green (right) and say the gauge loads a little bit each time you attack your opponent. Whenever you attack enough to where the percentages add up to about 200%, then your gauge becomes full, meaning it will be all the way on the green (right) side fully loaded. It should then make a sound to tell you that it is like this, and blink or something to indicate it also. Then you should be able to do your special.

 

[M]

You shouldn't get it if you are in the lead. I think it would work best as a comeback move, like being able to use it once every life, however your damage must be above 250%. Well I'm not sure of how much damage, but it would be better to obtain the special that way

 

[MetalLuigi1209]

I still think that you should be able to turn it on/off. You wouldn't turn off the crowd's cheering, just make it so that they couldn't make the emblem appear. I would turn it on for fun matches that I play agianst my friends, but I would turn it off for serious matches, since it could be unfair, since chaos control is probably more powerful than being cooked in a pot.

 

[Blackshadow]

Same here, if the Super Smashes are unbalanced then I (and most likely the whole community) will only be playing with them in fun matches.

 

[Red Exodus]

There are only 2 reasons I would not like super smashs:

1) if the alter the speed of the match (if the super is a cutscene).
2) if the shift the tide of the match too easily (if they KO you at low %s)

If they don't do that I'd be fine with them.

 

[Blackshadow]

^ Agreed, I would rather Super Smashes either

(a) Make your damage go up to a high percent (not neccessarily a KO)

(b) Kill you at mid-high percent

Or

(c) Both of the above (broken tier i.e Fox SUPER DUPER MEGA WAVESHINE TO MEGANOVA ZOMG WHEN WILL THE HELLFIRE STOP move)

 

[Red Exodus]

Yay! Fox wins! Lol Fox SUPER DUPER MEGA WAVESHINE TO MEGANOVA ZOMG WHEN WILL THE HELLFIRE STOP move for Brawl!

 

[virtualgamecafe]

i dont think the brawl attack should hurt the user but also should not stop gameplay but i think the gauge is too much like shreck super-slam and that game was crappy but anyways the ball needs 2 apear at random and it should be allowed to be changed in the options mode also u need 2 make a poll (unless this is 1 )

 

[Blackshadow]

@ Red Exodus: If only I had more sig space to put that in

@ virtual game cafe: Shrek SuperSlam was an obvious Melee ripoff, so if anything the Shrek game OWES Smash something (though I wouldnt want gauge either, too similar to other fighters).

 

[Red Exodus]

Lol I would too but I'm the Juggernaut B****!

 

[Zealot2120]

The thing about Smash is it's chaos. Great players of smash are those who are able to master the chaos. Making the Super Smash a reward for doing a certain combo or getting a certain lead, or making it a underdog helper, you destroy the entropy of Smash.

In this system, it becomes something you can expect. "If I do this, I'll get to do the Super Smash.". It just doesn't work. There need to be no constants to the game. You don't know what other characters will do, you don't know how they will react to your attacks. The problem with Super Smash is it seems as there is no where to block it, and it is super strong. It's an absolute; you do the super smash and you get a powerful advantage. Other players cannot react to it.

The super smash as a reward destorys the uncertainty. However, as an item, it enourages entropy. Mid-match, the orb falls from the sky, and the players all race to get it, as they would a poke ball.

 

[xRedDeathx]

what would be nice is that if there was a meter (invisible) that filled while u where doing damage or getting it instead. the meter would decrease during time periods of inactivity this seems like a likely thing to do, as smash is about frantic battles. (or atleast smash in free for all, but in 1v1s its not always the right option).

there could also be certain "multiplier" like bonuses that increase the speed at which u get smash power. like dealing 50% damage in 3 seconds or something.

i also liked that idea of that flame that build up around ur characters percentage. it would look AWESOME.

however, i still think that it will be the smash orb idea, as shown in the first trailer.

 

[247Marthathon]

i think the whole special idea is terrible, it didnt work with mario tennis and will be even worse for brawl. i think that the best way to do it would to make it like a mortal combat finisher move. a person should only be able to have a special done on them if they are over 100% or maybe even more.

 

[Red Exodus]

If it was 999% it would be better, I have survived matches with over 600% before I would hate to be killed by some cheap super smash just because my damage is high.

 

[Kashakunaki]

Why is everyone sticking to the meter idea so religiously?

Here's my two cents. It should be both percentage based and item based or one or the other. Item based in the way it has already been presented. However, percentage based would allow a person to use their super move at a certain percent. Also, a character's stats would determine when they could or couldn't use their super. For example, Bowser would theortically be heavier and stronger than Mario, so Bowser would have to be at a higher percent before he could use his super than Mario. A light, weak character may only need to survive until around 180% while a heavier character, again Bowser, would have to survive to something more like 230%-ish. Also, either way, this would obviously be able to turned off.

Now, pointing out a few previous arguements, mainly Zealots. Smash is indeed about chaos and is indeed very fast paced. Also, you may ask, "Why give the person at the disadvantage an easily exploitable ability and chance to even, or even turn, the tides?" I have a response to both of those.

Would not a percentage based Super Smash encourage one to knock their opponent out of the arena faster? After all, Smash is technically a giant King of the Hill match. Any sane player or player that cares about winning wouldn't want their opponent to get their Super Smash, so why let them if you can stop it? What about toying with people, you say? That's always a fun and taunting game that displays one's superiority over the other. A percentage based Super Smash would ruin that, you say? I would have to disagree. As a matter of fact, I'd say the opposite. It makes it better. The opponent is in your control, you can do what you please with them. Toy around with them. What's that? Just 10%? until you can do a Super Smash? WRONG!!! *kills* Very taunting and mockinng.

Just take the idea into consideration. Oh, also. My idea with the percentage based Super Smashs is you also have to be on the ground to execute them. You can't be in the process of dieing and be like, "lawlz 1 iz t0t4l h4x!1!!+shift!!11!1

 

[hondazoom]

To me it's a pretty slippery slope............

Im not sure if i like the "item" thing, because then people could just wait around for one, OR you could be owning the match, then you opponent just happens to be right underneath the brawl badge(or w/e it's called).

It would be nice if you could earn a special through a 50% combo or something, but this would put some characters at a disadvantage, so it's impractical.

Only thing that "seems" like it would work, is if someone earned their special by connecting a fully-charged smash move, this would make it fair to everyone. It would be especially nice if you could use this method for competitive matches, and if you have a match just for fun, you could just let brawl moves be earned by items again. Switching between the two would be nice.

but what do I know.......

 

[kithkin]

well judging by the video, it seems to be an item. i cant be certain in any case.

but i am certain it will be banned from tournaments so.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

Balancing the match would be a great idea! If you're losing by two lives or something.

 

[Joner]

Super Moves would probably break the game terribly, so I just want it to be an item you can turn on/off...
EDIT
If the players' skills are equal, one could just get a grip and concentrate more to come back to the match. If the skill ain't equal... Well, then it just ain't equal and there is no reason that it should be used to "balance" it out. It's like using automated handicap in Smash Melee...