How bad is the Roy vs Sheik matchup?

[Winston]

I've been wondering this since seeing the new Sethlon videos from WCSL.

The dtilt/crouch cancel/side b spacing style he used in the set vs P seemed pretty effective vs sheik. Obviously Sethlon is really good and P probably didn't know how to fight vs a good Roy, but still. The matchup didn't seem that bad.

Enlighten me.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

3 words. sheik too good.

 

[rudeezy]

dtilt shouldnt work when you spam it THAT much



should it? :O

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Um. Well. Sheik chain grabs Roy... needles **** his recovery... Roy is really easy to combo and kill... Sheik combos Roy really well... Sheik is faster than Roy and Roy can't really space Sheik out that well... Roy doesn't edge guard Sheik particularly well..

I dunno, it's pretty freaking bad. I actually have no idea how Sethlon beat a Sheik, Imma hafta check this out.

 

[exarch]

Actually, Roy can space sheik out well. Sheik has a hard time approaching Roy. Roy outprioritizes sheik (most of the time). Roy's edgeguard on sheik is pretty B.A. Annnd Roy has some legitimate combos on her.

The CG is pretty bad (though I don't know what %s it goes for). At 0 I DI away and standing tech and have never been CGed by a sheik at 0). Normally I get grabbed at 0, they miss the first CG and don't try it again. But even sheiks who know about the CG don't typically do it to me (like how some sheiks don't do it to other low tiers, since it's a bad enough matchup already.) Also if sheik goes far enough out off the stage Roy's done. But otherwise it's not worse than other characters edgeguarding Roy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9lCW3klldU
That's the only match of me against a sheik (Derf is also a very good player incidentally). You can see I manage to do effectively the same thing as Sethlon, frustrate the approach with dtilts and DED's, poke and prod and tack on damage until she's in kill percents. I just fsmash and nair more.

I think it's Roy's best matchup in the top 5 characters. But I'm not on-point enough against Fox these days, sheik gives me time enough to think about what's going on. Fox you have to be ready for.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

lol cept exarch and sethlon are two of hte best roys :/

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

People are forgetting that P isn't really on Sethlon's level....

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I dunno, seems like if Sheik can approach Marth, she should be able to screw Roy up pretty well. How do you edge guard Sheik? Edge hog, roll up and fsmash doesn't seem like it'd work because you'd have to go over there to get any sort of knockback, by which time she's probably recovered from landing lag...

I still have a hard time thinking of Sethlon as anyone but that guy who plays Falco in Brawl.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

lol i actually only think of sethlon as that roy guy

 

[KirbyKaze]

When P played Sethlon, Sethlon sat underneath a platform crouched and then chilled comfortably.

P would drop Fair and then get comboed for D-tilt --> Flare Blade or D-tilt --> Fair or whatever.

The counter to that is simply dropping with some needles (preferrably more than 1; 2-3 is sufficient) and then doing "Grab" and the "Grab to Grab" combo, which conveniently combos into itself.

I don't know too much about this matchup but I can't see Roy being too different from Peach.

 

[Europhoria]

I think this is like 80/20

 

[Winston]

People are forgetting that P isn't really on Sethlon's level....

This is pretty much what I expected people to say. But really, Sethlon's set with MANGO was close as well, with him taking a game convincingly. (Though it is true that neither of them really abused needles.)

Thanks exarch for the in-depth answer. Though there seem to be plenty of dissenting opinions.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think more and more with people sitting underneath platforms in crouch it becomes more important to needle --> grab with a few charged needles (from platform, short hop, etc), but nobody does that enough.

*shrug*

Teczero told me if you charge 2-3 needles you don't even have to time it particularly carefully when you do it, which is also really good. And the shield stun of multiple needles will eat shield grabs and let you grab them if they try to do it, which is additionally good. And 2-3 needles is not nearly as obvious as a full set so it sounds like it would probably work.

I was just going to use it against Peaches mainly but if it beats Roy too, uhhh, yay? I guess?

I think the matchup is pretty much unwinnable in Sheik chain grabs properly and plays gay but not enough people do that. Most people try to go for perfect 0-death chain grabs when it's well beyond their ability to do so and then get discouraged when they really should just rack them to like 15 or something and then do it because of how much easier it becomes. And, really, racking 15-20% is so hard with Sheik.

edit: Exarch, Sethlon, I'll play either of you (or, preferrably, both) if I see you at something in the near future. I can't get to CT but if I see you at something random then I'd be happy to discuss the matchup over (semi-serious) friendlies.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yay! always yay!

hi kirby!

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Ha... Sheik trying not to play gay... that's like Marth trying not to use his sword.

Or something.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I will openly admit that I chain grab, needle camp, shield camp, DD camp, waveshield camp, Fair camp, platform camp, Bair camp, and spam massive unpunishable priority vs low tiers as Sheik. And I am proud to do it.

 

[jugfingers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGc8RRBIHOU

this bad.




no I really don't know anything about this matchup but I thought I'd post this anyways.

 

[Rain(ame)]

I honestly see it in Sheik's favor, but Roy can punish Sheik in the air, as well. That is...if the Sheik is dumb enough to leave themselves THAT open. I wouldn't say unwinnable....but darn near impossible. ESPECIALLY against Tec0. God his Sheik is gay.


Correction- his sheik is "overly courteous" ^_^

Edit: That...was MUCH worse than what he did to My Roy.

 

[exarch]

I will openly admit that I chain grab, needle camp, shield camp, DD camp, waveshield camp, Fair camp, platform camp, Bair camp, and spam massive unpunishable priority vs low tiers as Sheik. And I am proud to do it.

That's cool. Are you coming to GA with Kage and them for TO4? I do want to play you in the matchup.

I honestly see it in Sheik's favor, but Roy can punish Sheik in the air, as well. That is...if the Sheik is dumb enough to leave themselves THAT open. I wouldn't say unwinnable....but darn near impossible. ESPECIALLY against Tec0. God his Sheik is gay.


Correction- his sheik is "overly courteous" ^_^

Edit: That...was MUCH worse than what he did to My Roy.

Well it honestly is in sheik's favor, but I think it's better for Roy than many people give it credit for.
And yeah, that Roy looked like one of those players who'd learned the techskill but not the application yet.

 

[Dogysamich]

edit: nevermind, apparently everybody has already seen it.

 

[puckgood]

That's like Marth trying not to use his sword.

Or something.

Erm... all chain grabs? With a throw at the end to get you off of the ledge, and then edgehog you? That's the only way I can think of Marth fighting without his sword. But... probably not.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Grabs and grab attack are all Marth has without his sword =P

 

[exarch]

Co_and_me used to watch people playing against Marths and yell "Watch out!! He's probably going to use his sword attack!"
Y'all just reminded me of him now, he was such a class act. ^_^

 

[Stratford]

P wasn't even respecting teh ph1r3 at all.