Bryonato
Green Hat
Scroll up. Look at the video SinB posted. I know I keep saying this, but at the moment that really is the best example we have of a great Ness.
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How are you using Magnet?
- Thread starter The_NZA
- Start date
Nkguy01
Smash Apprentice
Ok, I'm not sure if this has been covered or not, and unfortunatley, I do not have a way to record a video. Concerning 2.5b, Ness, after having wall-tech-jumped, gains momentum (or sort of bounce the way lucas can with his magnet in brawl after a pk fire) after activating the psi magnet after the wall tech.
If you can try it, do it, and report back. It's pretty cool.
Also, am I too flashy, or does anyone use the magnet to waveland and stuff. What I've found is that ness can pivot magnet jump and reverse waveland off of a platform. It's pretty fun to do and can create a mindgame or two.
If you can try it, do it, and report back. It's pretty cool.
Also, am I too flashy, or does anyone use the magnet to waveland and stuff. What I've found is that ness can pivot magnet jump and reverse waveland off of a platform. It's pretty fun to do and can create a mindgame or two.
GMaster171
Smash Ace
That first thing is interesting, never even tried using it out of ledge tech before, I'm usually trying to PKT in a weird way if I'm being edgeguarded haha. I'll try it when I get a chance, seems like it would help as you can reverse your direction with it.
About wavelanding. It might just be me, but I tend to DD/WD at the very edge of their range to bait something, being in the air isnt very fun for me, staying low, and keeping DJ as long as you can might be a little better than platform mindgames.
About wavelanding. It might just be me, but I tend to DD/WD at the very edge of their range to bait something, being in the air isnt very fun for me, staying low, and keeping DJ as long as you can might be a little better than platform mindgames.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Interesting Theory Craft HO!
Can you wall tech, get momentum from down B, then B-reversal to zip back on-stage?
Can you wall tech, get momentum from down B, then B-reversal to zip back on-stage?
Brain-explode, what's a pivot magnet jump and what's a reverse waveland? haha
Staying grounded! YES THANK YOU!!!
That ground game...
THAT GROUND GAME!!!
GMaster171
Smash Ace
Heh np, I don't play him as much as I do without learning stuff.
The Psi Magnet was all I wanted to use when I saw it had a hitbox, it looked like a lot of fun options Ness could play with. I ended up changing my main to Ness after playing Earthbound for the first time on the SNES! (well, first "real" time)
After using him for a while I realized the Psi Magnet wasn't that great (too slow, not enough hit stun, and basically what others have commented about it) and will probably be dropping him - at least until the Psi Magnet (and a few other moves) are tweaked a bit so they're not so wonky.
Just yesterday I played Wolf for the first time to check out what his shine does in comparison to the Psi Magnet and liked that a lot more. It's a good OoS option, fast, good stun time, and plenty of options to follow it up with... basically everything Ness can't do with his Psi Magnet. It got me wondering, what would be wrong with having a hitbox like Fox or Falco, or even Wolf's? That's a question not wanting an answer, it's there to get you thinking about playing Ness with that kind of potential - I for one think it'd be more fun.
After using him for a while I realized the Psi Magnet wasn't that great (too slow, not enough hit stun, and basically what others have commented about it) and will probably be dropping him - at least until the Psi Magnet (and a few other moves) are tweaked a bit so they're not so wonky.
Just yesterday I played Wolf for the first time to check out what his shine does in comparison to the Psi Magnet and liked that a lot more. It's a good OoS option, fast, good stun time, and plenty of options to follow it up with... basically everything Ness can't do with his Psi Magnet. It got me wondering, what would be wrong with having a hitbox like Fox or Falco, or even Wolf's? That's a question not wanting an answer, it's there to get you thinking about playing Ness with that kind of potential - I for one think it'd be more fun.
Bryonato
Green Hat
I mentioned this once in IE's stream and he basically said there's no way in hell Ness will ever get a true shine. I just wish it was 2 or 3 frames faster.
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
It should just be tailored for its purpose whereas right now we all are distilling purposes out of it (making it half useful for various applications, like weird momentum shifting). If its meant to be a aerial momentum shifter, let them toy with it better to outfit it with that purpose. If it's meant to be an aerial combo starter, improve its speed and hitbox. I'm fine with either but I really wish they ****ed with some variables to see if it can really be used to make aerial momentum for Ness super weird in the right hands.
I wouldn't call it useless right now...it just doesn't strongly understand it's identity in his play.
I wouldn't call it useless right now...it just doesn't strongly understand it's identity in his play.
GMaster171
Smash Ace
All I wish is that it would be given the ability to DJ cancel the absorb stun. It doesn't even really work for its intended purpose because you cant.
I find myself within the ranks of those many disappointed players. It just appears to me to be a shame that the developers are seen as representing the competitive community yet may be stubbornly holding to their singular opinion of the character.
There's no harm in offering a change of character to see what works, the build gets updated frequently.
However they want to do it, it's their project. As for me, I think I'll wait until someone tweaks the code and everyone uses that persons' build instead.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Unfortunately project m does not get updated often. 2.1 was out for a year before 2.5 came out. 2.5 is likely to stay out for a similar period of time. Also, adding shines to character does not make them better. Fox, Wolf, and Falco aren't amazing characters because they have shines, they are amazing because they are faster and have moves that come out quicker and stronger than other characters. Also, i'm not convinced that ness needs a shine. His character is not centered on agressive shield pressure. Additionally, his shine is tailored to his aerial game, which is easily ness' best attribute. He uses it to shift momentum in the air so he can use his aerials more effectively. I feel that, if Ness were given a shine, he would not find a whole lot of uses for it because of the makeup of his character. As for you not playing Project M, that's your loss, becuase nobody in the world is going to make a better Smash game ever.
Bryonato
Green Hat
To be fair, I feel like having a shine is one of the reasons the spacies are so good. It's one of their best attributes. While I don't think Ness needs a shine (that would be a little overkill) his magnet does need a tweak. I think NZA hit the nail on the head with his identity post.
210stuna
Smash Lord
I feel his magnet more easier to use in 2.6.
His down special is also over kill.
His down special is also over kill.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Thing is though the only thing they did to magnet was nerf it in that you are stuck in absorb lag now for a brief period of time.
210stuna
Smash Lord
Doesn't that "absorb lag" electrocute the foe though, causing damage?
EDIT: And it can be jump canceled into a wavedash attack right after. That's what I do anyways.
EDIT: And it can be jump canceled into a wavedash attack right after. That's what I do anyways.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Why does it matter if it does damage when you're going to be absorbing projectiles from across the stage?
I think you misunderstood me. If you absorb a projectile you're stuck in a stagnant state where you can't roll/spot dodge/jump or anything. I'm not talking about magnet when you just throw it out.
I think you misunderstood me. If you absorb a projectile you're stuck in a stagnant state where you can't roll/spot dodge/jump or anything. I'm not talking about magnet when you just throw it out.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Yeah the absorb lag sucks. That might be an engine thing though. Does it still lag you out if you are in the air?
Just went to xandu weekly and went straight Ness. I didn't play in the tournament, but I got some good experience in. Shiek is annoying but Zelda is easy as cake. I feel like most of the heavy matchups are in Ness' favor actually.
Just went to xandu weekly and went straight Ness. I didn't play in the tournament, but I got some good experience in. Shiek is annoying but Zelda is easy as cake. I feel like most of the heavy matchups are in Ness' favor actually.
GMaster171
Smash Ace
Its not an engine thing as the lag was added in 2.6 (in 2.5 he was able to jump/roll/spotdodge out of the lag while on the ground).
Shiek is definitely one of, if not, the worst matchups for Ness. She stuffs our neutral, approach and recovery with ease, and gets loads of guaranteed stuff off of grabs. I would put her and Marth in that category where if you arent experienced you might want to switch.
Shiek is definitely one of, if not, the worst matchups for Ness. She stuffs our neutral, approach and recovery with ease, and gets loads of guaranteed stuff off of grabs. I would put her and Marth in that category where if you arent experienced you might want to switch.
210stuna
Smash Lord
In that sense you're right.
I hardly use it that way though, because of the lag.
I use it offensively like I posted before, or to change my timing coming back down from being knocked out to throw the enemy's timing off.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Oh same here. I almost never use it for it's "intended" purpose.
Any of you guys catch my latest smash stream? Felt real good about my Ness all night hahaha. My favorite part was magnet -> airwalk -> tippered fsmash
Yeah Sheik ****s all over us. Marth I feel a little better about as I get more matchup experience though. I rather like the weight he sits at for comboing.
Any of you guys catch my latest smash stream? Felt real good about my Ness all night hahaha. My favorite part was magnet -> airwalk -> tippered fsmash
GMaster171
Smash Ace
I never get to catch your stream live T.T
Unless... I stay up till 4... but...
Unless... I stay up till 4... but...
Bryonato
Green Hat
but this one started at like 6pm my time. WHERE'S YOUR EXCUSE NOW???
GMaster171
Smash Ace
I got the email about the stream at 11:30 PM my time, and I had just got my PS3 fixed...
sorry
sorry
Bryonato
Green Hat
Ha don't worry about it GM it's fine. And sorry NZA I have 0 matchup experience with her.
Anywho I believe if you go to your account settings on Twitch you can change that.
Anywho I believe if you go to your account settings on Twitch you can change that.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
I'm probably not an authority, but i felt like all I had to do was avoid the Din's fires, which was easier because Ness has a lot of aerial mobility, and then get a PK fire of on her. She would either get hit, in which case I would go in for the dthrow into cool stuff, or she would do Naryu's love, in which case I would wait for the endlag and grab her anyway. Sometimes I would throw another PK fire at her just to be safe. When she was at kill% I would just back-throw. Also, I was really aggressive with my off-stage gimps. I would go really hard with dair as soon as I got her off the stage, it didn't matter what %. I got the timing down to where I could hit diars before she even teleported. When i didn't feel safe going out for the dair I would just PK Flash her to death, which works great because she is so floaty. Basically the MU was me outcamping her with PK fires and going in for some timely dairs and PK Flashes. I hope this helps!
210stuna
Smash Lord
Proof Ness can become a beast in the right hands.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Does Ness have any dthrow followups on Zelda? I would think she is way too floaty
Bryonato
Green Hat
So basically no haha
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Fair seemed to work pretty well for me. DJC makes it come out fast enough to catch her. Even when I didn't DJC the huge hitbox would usually get her if I followed her closely. She's floaty, but it's not like she's Jiggs. Maybe the Zelda I was playing was dumpy...
Edit: I would definitely say my Ness is not a beast. I'm pretty gumpy at the moment. However, I felt like I could really nail this Zelda I played quite a few matches against. Shiek, on the other hand, was a total drag.
Bryonato
Green Hat
Sounds like they didn't DI but I'm not going to make any judgement since I didn't see the match.
Nguz95
Smash Lord
Perhaps. Even when she definitely did DI I felt like I could get her with fair. If I missed it was because she double jumped, which meant I was still in an advantageous position. Her teleport is slow enough that she can't escape without getting nailed by a uair or something. She definitely could not land fairs of death out of a dthrow if that's what you are worried about.
Veishi336
Smash Journeyman
Has anyone tried to use the Magnet as somewhat like fox's shine spike off stage? Ive tried it a few times and it somewhat worked but it works better at higher percents. I know the shine and magnet dont have the same props but still it was working out pretty well.
210stuna
Smash Lord
I still feel as neutral A does a better job at gimping someone/killing them off stage. Down A is usually the way to go honestly, but if it's too much of a risk, and they are already at a higher percent, than neutral A is the way to go.
If they are at higher percentage, and you're feeling lucky. You can usually get in a few hits with the magnet and follow up with a down A or back A.
Veishi336
Smash Journeyman
well i do see the advantages of using Nair as a gimp and i agree that it is a better option but i guess for safe reasons you could use the magnet. like if an opponent is completely under you off stage and beneath the ledge, it could work if they are at a high percent.
Bryonato
Green Hat
I've done this maybe once or twice, mainly because (as mentioned) I usually default to Nair since I love that move to butts
BlackDr.Mario
Smash Cadet
I play Ness as my secondary (not hard to guess my main since 3.0 update lol) but I found this Ness player who's amazing named Calabrel. Here's a video of him I watch to study from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAqTT0H_eRs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i figured out you can jc shine with the psi magnet in a similar way fox does it, but much easier
fox can shine during his jump animation so his timing is very tight
it is likely ness can do this too, but if you hold the psi for a little bit longer, ness will quickly float down and his feet will touch the ground anyway, so you can jump cancel PSI again without using your double jump. this is faster than waveshining. it's a decent way to both create and escape pressure, since the hitbox is pretty large
fox can shine during his jump animation so his timing is very tight
it is likely ness can do this too, but if you hold the psi for a little bit longer, ness will quickly float down and his feet will touch the ground anyway, so you can jump cancel PSI again without using your double jump. this is faster than waveshining. it's a decent way to both create and escape pressure, since the hitbox is pretty large