Houston Thread - No HOBOs and no WHOBOs. What do we do now??????????????????????????????????????????

[BioDG]

I guess the biggest question is...do we really need as many stages as we have or is JP's set enough to have the same effect?

 

[kailo34ce]

ban everything but c tier

 

[z00ted]

I guess the biggest question is...do we really need as many stages as we have or is JP's set enough to have the same effect?

It will definitely NOT give the same effect.

It will literally change everything we know about our current metagame.
Metaknight will be nerfed, but not enough to no longer be considered broken by any means.
His dominance in tournament will still be as strong as ever.

Diddy, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Snake, Falco etc will all receive incredible buffs.

The only thing a Japanese ruleset does is cater to higher tiered characters.
It nullifies the lower half of high tier and the mid tier down side of the cast by eliminating their chance at a viable counterpick.

 

[kailo34ce]

the game isnt very balanced

 

[Fliphopper]

www.smashbrothersdjs.com

All my mixes are there. Not sure if you're a fan of Dance/ top 40/ hiphop music.

 

[kailo34ce]

www.smashbrothersdjs.com

All my mixes are there. Not sure if you're a fan of Dance/ top 40/ hiphop music.

i ban everything but japanese music. they focus more on the fundamentals of music

 

[Player-4]

That doesn't happen to ANYONE anymore. People don't even get stuck under the stage anymore.

If its about game balance and player skill we should ban these stages AND mk.

To say that doesn't happen anymore is an incredibly naive thing to say. Just because it doesn't happen often doesn't meant it doesn't happen. Knowledge of the stage still doesn't prevent "**** from happening".

MK is already banned so I don't understand your last statement.

 

[Tesh]

People are arguing to unban MK and ban many stages instead.

And I am prepared to say that among competent competitive players, that just doesn't happen in serious matches. There is basically a very small line where the stage pushes you into the upper blast zone. Tripping causes many more problem than that ever could. Game 1 Nietono vs Otori is a great example of that.

 

[Player-4]

People are arguing to unban MK and ban many stages instead.

And I am prepared to say that among competent competitive players, that just doesn't happen in serious matches. There is basically a very small line where the stage pushes you into the upper blast zone. Tripping causes many more problem than that ever could. Game 1 Nietono vs Otori is a great example of that.

Tripping you can't control outside of hacking the game, stage selection you can. And please tell Gnes he's not a competent player, I've seen Frigate screw him over countless times in both doubles and singles.

 

[Tesh]

OHKOing you

screw him over

Not sure what you are talking about this time.

 

[kailo34ce]

i really wanted to see 10 mks in a crew battle

 

[CY]

the japanese are back baby.

THOM IS BACK TOO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McuH...xt=C390d990UDOEgsToPDskKvXZxa_0S3FBvk6yVaptEB

 

[Drillmaster]

He's trolling we need an effing ride I hate everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Now u know the pain *****h

I love the Japanese ruleset

OH LOOK, ANOTHER THAT AGREES

Everything stage based revolves around MK.
If Nairo had won APEX, none of this would have even been taken into consideration.

Ban MK, all this ruleset talk magically disappears.
Screw Japan. They don't deal with his over-centralization in even one tenth of the measure USA does. They have like four high level Metaknights, we have like at least forty.

Unity Ruleset is fine and has been based off of a four year pool of information.
That's the proper way in creating a ruleset, not just mimicking everything we see.

America's metagame and Japan's are two completely different creatures.
They have been trying something and have stuck with it. We have been experimenting with multiple things and we are choosing to experiment with Metaknight being banned due to the evidence we have collected.

I'm not ditching all of my hard work and dedication in learning stages because of the Japanese and all the bandwagon bad players that feel as though it is our duty to seek revenge in only one tournament.

The immaturity of the smash community is amazing.

We haven't even thoroughly tested MK banned events yet, and people are already provoking stage changes to keep him legal.

One character influences all of our decisions regarding the ruleset.
Ban him.

*****h stfu, actual response to this is in my aim log lmao

I've always been a fan of the Japanese rule set since I learned of it.

OH I'M SEEING A PATTERN.

Smash brothers has always advocated knowledge through counterpicks.
You have the upper hand on your opponent because you understand something more thoroughly after your loss.

This **** is getting way out of hand, and it's starting to piss me off.
I'm all for change, but this is too much and way too fast.

Tripping you can't control outside of hacking the game, stage selection you can. And please tell Gnes he's not a competent player, I've seen Frigate screw him over countless times in both doubles and singles.

Frigate is gayer than people think.

i really wanted to see 10 mks in a crew battle

mk is not that good in crew battles son.

 

[Drillmaster]

that chick with "stfu" on her hand actually sucked my **** mad deep.

 

[Zano]

I main marth, so a ruleset with only neutrals would be sex.

I suck either way tho, so whatevs, I just wanna ****ing play this game without all these complications : /

 

[Player-4]

Not sure what you are talking about this time.

Uh what?

10whats

 

[Drillmaster]

-gone- this *****hs' political views:


Illmatic. left the group Cain Train. 7:16 PM

sorry he got bodied ill

 

[Sync.]

Sorry guys but I agree with Ill on this one. I think we're doing the right thing by banning MK. Just because we are the only area that bans him doesn't mean we're incorrect and I don't understand the resurgence of the anti-ban people... didn't MK STILL take half of the top 8 of Apex 2012 and didn't MK WIN Apex 2012 in both events?

Reducing the main stages complained about when MK was around didn't really change anything... it just helped grounded characters do better (albeit Nietono is an amazing player the stagelist did help Olimar succed at this tournament).

 

[Gea]

Fliphop actually posting his knowledge.

For me I'm a fan of the stage set. When stages like RC, Brinstar, Frigate are used for counterpick and what not, it is used just for that a counterpick. We try too hard to lets say "win" that we fall back on the stages that will give the opponent a harder time to succeed. Isn't the stage set for the Japanese players are like 3 neutrals and 2 counter picks?

We aren't learning our characters to the fullest if we're using stages that benefit our characters the most. Do I learn anything about improving my character on Halberd when I know I will die xx% faster in the ceiling or worry about getting sharked when the stage is moving? No. All I know is to avoid up smashes/tilts earlier than normal and stay at the platform when MK, Pit, or whoever is underneath the stage.

Eh iono. SUPER NEUTRALS BABY

K then you should want to only play on counterpick stages since you play Diddy. The japanese stage list benefits Diddy greatly. Problem with this argument is that it discounts having to learn the "neutrals" as well. Is fighting Snake/MK on FD anything like on BF? No, platforms make it a totally different game. People just spend more time playing on those stages.

The thing is having a really conservative stage list isn't going to magically get rid of people's problems with how Brawl is. MK is still MK who can plank, D3 can still CG people (maybe even easier now that he has no threat of brinstar or the like), etc. It just helps a few characters at the expense of less choice.

Also if you're gonna take Japan's stage list you may as well take their entire ruleset. 10 minute matches, no money involved. Playing for money encourages things like planking, which certainly isn't about bettering your character.

 

[Tesh]

maybe planking bettered too much

 

[RT]

Just got my 3DS back...lost all of my Mii, Find Mii, Puzzle Pieces, and FC list. Also, FC changed. I'm a little sad...

Anyways, new one is 4038-6677-8162. Please re-add me...I'll add everyone else in a bit.

 

[Sync.]

I miss you RT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Xyro77]

The fd/bf/sv japanese ruleset favor diddy/snake/mk/ICs HEAVILY(now go back a few posts and see who SUPPORTS the ruleset aka diddy/mk/snake/IC mains i bet) . This ruleset slows growth of the rest of the cast and will in the long term shorten the growth of the actual GAME(brawl is already shallow enough). Smash is about COUNTER PICKING and by eliminating perfectly fine stages it only hurts not helps.

people who go into a match with the sole purpose of stall/scrooge/air camp....ect will do it whether its 8min or 800min. so the japanese 10min timer only guarantees that a tournament will last longer than normal.

 

[RT]

Add me, poopface.

 

[Tesh]

The fd/bf/sv japanese ruleset favor diddy/snake/mk/ICs HEAVILY(now go back a few posts and see who SUPPORTS the ruleset aka diddy/mk/snake/IC mains i bet) . This ruleset slows growth of the rest of the cast and will in the long term shorten the growth of the actual GAME(brawl is already shallow enough). Smash is about COUNTER PICKING and by eliminating perfectly fine stages it only hurts not helps.

people who go into a match with the sole purpose of stall/scrooge/air camp....ect will do it whether its 8min or 800min. so the japanese 10min timer only guarantees that a tournament will last longer than normal.

^ Campers gonna camp.

I'm reminded of vVv Zero planking for like 2 minutes when he was 4 stocks down in doubles.

 

[DiskaSM]

Xyro and Illmatic are totally correct.

Heck, I main Snake, but I think just 3 stages would be incredibly boring and dumb.

This game is already unbalanced as is. We don't need MK to be back (or back, even stronger than before). We don't need the lower half of the cast to have no counterpick to ICs or Diddy or Snake. While RC and brinstar are just dumb and shouldn't be considered competitive, I think we should keep the Apex stagelist with our other counterpicks, keep MK out (gosh, he dominated Apex too, why do we need more of this), and *maybe* ban all infinites.

Let the metagame progress. I'm tired of YEARS of MK ditto grand finals, winner's finals, and loser's finals. Not to mention MK in almost every team.

Edit: Just to clear any confusion, I feel like apex was better off without RC and Brinstar, and those should stay out. Apex stagelist was perfect.

 

[sheikamaru]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 11 (10 members and 1 guests)
xKilikx, Zano Shiran, KRDsonic, Smoom77, Xyro77+, Sync.+, Rockettrainer+, Gea, DiskaSM, Player-4+

 

[Player-4]

The fd/bf/sv japanese ruleset favor diddy/snake/mk/ICs HEAVILY(now go back a few posts and see who SUPPORTS the ruleset aka diddy/mk/snake/IC mains i bet) . This ruleset slows growth of the rest of the cast and will in the long term shorten the growth of the actual GAME(brawl is already shallow enough). Smash is about COUNTER PICKING and by eliminating perfectly fine stages it only hurts not helps.

people who go into a match with the sole purpose of stall/scrooge/air camp....ect will do it whether its 8min or 800min. so the japanese 10min timer only guarantees that a tournament will last longer than normal.

You nor anyone in America has run a 10 minute timer tourney. You're theory crafting, not speaking through experience.

 

[Drillmaster]

The fd/bf/sv japanese ruleset favor diddy/snake/mk/ICs HEAVILY(now go back a few posts and see who SUPPORTS the ruleset aka diddy/mk/snake/IC mains i bet) . This ruleset slows growth of the rest of the cast and will in the long term shorten the growth of the actual GAME(brawl is already shallow enough). Smash is about COUNTER PICKING and by eliminating perfectly fine stages it only hurts not helps.

people who go into a match with the sole purpose of stall/scrooge/air camp....ect will do it whether its 8min or 800min. so the japanese 10min timer only guarantees that a tournament will last longer than normal.

 

[Xyro77]

You nor anyone in America has run a 10 minute timer tourney. You're theory crafting, not speaking through experience.

incorrect. im coming from 7 years of TO experience(ive done 5/6/7/8 min timers) and basic math calculation. It is a mathematical FACT that the lower the timer the overall event will finish faster. If just a single person plays a match that goes to 8min 1 sec, its a mathematical FACT the event lasted one sec more than it would have had 8min been the MAX a timer can be set at. Now apply this to people like VVVzero or dmg or m2k or whoever you want that enjoys running timers. Its now not 8min 1sec, its now 9min or maybe even the full 10.

 

[Gea]

You nor anyone in America has run a 10 minute timer tourney. You're theory crafting, not speaking through experience.

Even if one match went over 8 minutes it would run longer. Are you willing to take a bet that it wouldn't? Now significantly... I don't know. But jesus when finals can take up close to an hour a set already. Brawl is SLOW as far as fighting games go.

However it's up to the TOs, but I would be really scared of doing 10 minutes in a larger setting like Apex just because no matter what you do a few matches will hit time, intentional or not.

Also, isn't it theory-crafting to say that people will get better if only neutrals are played? Japan's success in America is not necessarily tied to their stage list. You may prefer their stage list for other reasons... but I see people citing Japan's success in conjunction with the stage list.

Not that the ruleset even directly affects me. I just think it's silly that the kneejerk reaction to Apex is to start banning stages.

 

[Sync.]

Also, if you look at Japan's tier list... you can see a lot of our higher tiered characters are a lot lower on the tier lists there because they don't have the stages to help develop their metagames. Remember, they have their metagame and we have ours. PJ destroyed Brood at Apex (in friendlies) and he was told by the Japanese that they were taken off guard because they don't have a good Toon Link over there because that character's metagame can't develop with their ruleset (timer and stages but timer especially).

 

[kailo34ce]

just ban every character that isnt in the top 5 that way we can all spend time using the best characters, and only play on 3 stages that way every match is relevant, then before long we will have an army of monsters, its the only choice

 

[Drillmaster]

it's harder to time out with 10 minutes, not like ledge grab limit is increasing, more time for opponent to catch lead, there will still be timeouts but they will be discouraged, this is the whole logic behind this lol, I don't ever c a trney runnin late because of a 10 minute timmer lmao, the only reason a trney runs late is because of *****hs not showing up taking mad long, going get food, being like "I'm not ready", go to bathroom right when they're called etc...

Japan's metagame is superior to ours, time to swallow our pride and learn from them.

 

[Xyro77]

just ban every character that isnt in the top 5 that way we can all spend time using the best characters, and only play on 3 stages that way every match is relevant, then before long we will have an army of monsters, its the only choice

tbh, thats extremely boring and shouldnt happen to brawl just yet(even though its the natural way of fighters). its happened in melee which is fine cause the game is 10 years old.

 

[Drillmaster]

I say we ban every low tier, no one uses them anyway, they're just a waste on the chracter select.

 

[Player-4]

Even if one match went over 8 minutes it would run longer. Are you willing to take a bet that it wouldn't? Now significantly... I don't know. But jesus when finals can take up close to an hour a set already. Brawl is SLOW as far as fighting games go.

However it's up to the TOs, but I would be really scared of doing 10 minutes in a larger setting like Apex just because no matter what you do a few matches will hit time, intentional or not.

Also, isn't it theory-crafting to say that people will get better if only neutrals are played? Japan's success in America is not necessarily tied to their stage list. You may prefer their stage list for other reasons... but I see people citing Japan's success in conjunction with the stage list.

Not that the ruleset even directly affects me. I just think it's silly that the kneejerk reaction to Apex is to start banning stages.

When did I say people would get better with a conservative stage selection? I only said it would be more balanced.

 

[Drillmaster]

Japan got good as **** apparently

 

[Xyro77]

it's harder to time out with 10 minutes, not like ledge grab limit is increasing, more time for opponent to catch lead, there will still be timeouts but they will be discouraged, this is the whole logic behind this lol, I don't ever c a trney runnin late because of a 10 minute timmer lmao, the only reason a trney runs late is because of *****hs not showing up taking mad long, going get food, being like "I'm not ready", go to bathroom right when they're called etc...

Japan's metagame is superior to ours, time to swallow our pride and learn from them.

ledge play is the only method thats discouraged. air camping/scrooging/platform camping will STILL happen and even increase in happening because ledge play is discouraged.

its been proven for nearly 4 years that no matter what rules u make to make this game "better," mk or "gay" players will(and have) find a way to continue playing gay.

 

[kailo34ce]

tbh, thats extremely boring and shouldnt happen to brawl just yet(even though its the natural way of fighters). its happened in melee which is fine cause the game is 10 years old.

if you look at the character spread in melee its wider than brawl. brawl has yet to spread. maybe it will when mk gets banned. and it was a joke anyway. its just stage ban logic. it doesnt even actually happen in fighters its just a facade that comes from games usually having 1 dominant player. like how melee is so old and 7 people have won nationals ever. the same guy wins the EC regionals for sf4 and jwong uses s/s/c and yipes used m/s/p which is borderline close to games going into 5 chars. its just a facade. also dont act like brawl isnt probably the worst when you are one of the strongest pro banners


edit: ill admit it on one case: third strike, but the first two versions werent even that bad