Houston Smash Ultimate Thread

[Maniak]

Friend requests sent out. Hope to be playing with some of you guys soon.

 

[Shaya]

Smash 4 could end up being the most balanced in the series (after Diddy, Sonic and Ness get nerfed), but it's at the expense of so much.
Characters are genuinely limited to specific play patterns that really aren't interesting; reactionless OP or not strong enough to be competitive without the variations (apparently) to improve it.
Some characters have amazing neutral games and can kill off a grab, they're going to dominate everyone and define the meta. Characters without the easy-life are going to be bad, I feel like the game is going to be "Top Tier, High Tier, Non-viable characters tier" where it's just the godwin grab-gamers with a sprinkle of even match ups in high tier and then everyone else just not being able to compete with the highly skewed risk/rewards Sakurai has given us in character balance.

Oh yeah, I'm flying into the US on the 7th of December. I'll be in Cali for who knows how long but I cannot forget the homely feel of the den of inequity back in Houston.

 

[PokemonyeWest]

BAN SONIC!!!

 

[Xyro77]

Shaya, that's exacy how I feel about smash 4. It's like these characters have a tool set and you are limited by the tool set. It feels like there is very little depth to them and thus little growth to sprout from them. What you said is right:

Top
High
The rest



If that is true, I highly doubt I'll be playing this for years. Too much was taken out from the game (compared to brawl, which also lost a lot from melee) and I don't wanna be forced to pick a character everyone else is using just to be viable at tournaments.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Lol then your description is not balanced. I feel like this game is balanced and more characters in this game have a chance than Melee or Brawl. It also doesn't feel limited. I feel like I have way more control in this game than Brawl. Idk how you guys are palying it, but I don't get the same feelings at all.

"and I don't wanna be forced to pick a character everyone else is using just to be viable at tournaments."

Wtf? Brawl dwindled down to MK/ICs and a select few. Melee is dwindled down to spacies, marth, sheik and a few others. This game will definitely have more.

 

[Espy Rose]

I was gonna say the same thing. Brawl gave you the same limitations that this game is doing. The only difference is that you get punished way harder in this game than in Brawl. Sorry you can't make 1,000 mistakes per stock now Xyro.

 

[z00ted]

been preaching since day 1

 

[Xyro77]

Razer, you feeling that you have more "control" has nothing to do with being or not being "limited." We are talking about 2 different things.

Also, that MK and IC comment you made is true but that's END GAME type stuff. I'm talking about the beginning of the game.




But yeah so

I'm not saying this game is worse than brawl but i feel it is extremely limited. It feels like if you don't play a character a certain way, you will fail. I feel there is very little room to be creative. I dislike that.

Example: Samus. In brawl you could spam, be offensive or stay on/near ledges and do a little of both. Yes, she is garbage no matter what but you could at least see the different styles and how each did well. Quik from Europe was less spammy, more physical and frame trappy. I was more spammy and focused on ledge play. But now? Ledges are nerfed, projectiles are nerfed and Shield poking is borderline nonexistent so now the only way to play Samus is physical based and deal with the negatives that come with it. She has ONE way to play. The depth/options are gone and is replaced with a basic one way style. Be it effective or not, it's a trend I am seeing in this game and the ones who do not suffer from this are the current top/high tiers. It REALLY makes me agree with Shaya when he says "Top....High...the rest."

Maybe I'm just wording this poorly

 

[UltimateRazer]

Wrong, that control I'm talking about gives me more options in how I want to play.

Lol you seem to be basing stuff off EC and WC then with Diddy/Rosa/Sheik. Have you seen TX? Beginning of the game is having Robin/Shulk/Charziard/Morton/Falcon with super diverse top 8 placings.

I think you're too hung up on how Samus has changed. I've seen multiple characters with different styles. What way do you have to play or you'll fail? I've seen Sheik camp like crazy and go in like crazy with both chances of working. Use the ledge to your advantage. Just because you can't plank doesn't mean it's shallow. Use it offensively. Depends on the projectile you're talking about. Do proper shield pressure, don't always need to go for the poke which is still there.

I see exactly how you're wording it and think you haven't played enough or you're just confined to a certain way of playing that doesn't work here.

 

[Teshie U]

Playstyles can be diverse.

Rush down characters like Sonic, Greninja and Sheik are naturally able to be pretty campy and evasive at any time.

All the good campy, shutdown characters have an aggressive side as well, with combos, setups, edgeguards.

All you did in brawl was missle cancel and camp the ledge so of course you are only focused on what you lost. I was the same with Sonic at first because he lost ASCSC, my favorite approach.

Pick a new character and learn the new game.

 

[Xyro77]

Wrong, that control I'm talking about gives me more options in how I want to play.

Then you are using the wrong word. "Control" is NOT the same a "limited"

Lol you seem to be basing stuff off EC and WC then with Diddy/Rosa/Sheik. Have you seen TX? Beginning of the game is having Robin/Shulk/Charziard/Morton/Falcon with super diverse top 8 placings.

Be real. Charizard was a last ditch effort on Trela's part. Denti had no idea what to do and Trela abused the hell out of that. its not like Trela went half way through the event with Charizard. Robin/Shulk/Morton/Falco are all high tier as of now and so they have some options/are not as limited.

I think you're too hung up on how Samus has changed. I've seen multiple characters with different styles.

Yes. The current high/top tiers have different styles because they have more options than "the rest." In Brawl, even the **** low/mid tiers had several styles. it helped create a sense of individualism. Thats not in Smash 4 from what ive seen.

What way do you have to play or you'll fail? I've seen Sheik camp like crazy and go in like crazy with both chances of working. Use the ledge to your advantage. Just because you can't plank doesn't mean it's shallow. Use it offensively. Depends on the projectile you're talking about. Do proper shield pressure, don't always need to go for the poke which is still there.

High/top tiers can do all this. the lower you go its not an option.

I see exactly how you're wording it and think you haven't played enough or you're just confined to a certain way of playing that doesn't work here.

ive played enough and yes its a certain way of play that doesnt work here....hence the "shallow" "simple" "basic" comments.

Playstyles can be diverse.

Rush down characters like Sonic, Greninja and Sheik are naturally able to be pretty campy and evasive at any time.

All the good campy, shutdown characters have an aggressive side as well, with combos, setups, edgeguards.

yes. as i said, top/high can do that.

All you did in brawl was missle cancel and camp the ledge so of course you are only focused on what you lost. I was the same with Sonic at first because he lost ASCSC, my favorite approach.

There is one difference. Sonic is legit BETTER in nearly every way. Samus is not.

Pick a new character and learn the new game.

I have a new character and yes i am trying to learn this watered down version of smash.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Holy fish I never said control = limited. I'm saying the more control in this game opens up your options and how you can play a character hence less limitations.

Trela also did well with Charziard at his WC thing taking Diddy to game 5. LOL Shulk and Morton are not even high tier like at all. And as far as I've seen, I'm literally like the only Falcon doing something atm.

Lol you don't even know who is low/mid right now. Besides Samus, I don't think you know what these low/mids can do. Did you see a GANON get top 5 at a stacked Japan tourney? Probably not.

You have not seen nor explored all the options in how characters can play.

 

[Xyro77]

Trela also did well with Charziard at his WC thing taking Diddy to game 5. LOL Shulk and Morton are not even high tier like at all. And as far as I've seen, I'm literally like the only Falcon doing something atm.

Lol you don't even know who is low/mid right now. Besides Samus, I don't think you know what these low/mids can do. Did you see a GANON get top 5 at a stacked Japan tourney? Probably not.

You have not seen nor explored all the options in how characters can play.

Oh ok, a ganon making top 5 totally discredits everything i said. lmao get out. interesting how you want me to pay attention to ganon results but totally ignore shulk (who is better than ganon in EVERY WAY) results done by Ally and Trela.

you are literally doing what the anti-bans did in brawl. ignore things when applied to your views but most def dont ignore things when applied to the enemy views. typical new gen stuff.


anyways, if you read my big statements over the past few days you will notice i say "for right now" or "currently" or something like that. You seem to be taking it as if i am categorizing this game as "basic/shallow/simple" from day 1 until day 10000000000000000000000. I know/hope things will change. its just right now the game is garbage.

Holy fish I never said control = limited. I'm saying the more control in this game opens up your options and how you can play a character hence less limitations.

contradict yourself in the same paragraph. if you didnt, then it is as i said when i said you are thinking something different that what i am saying. control doesnt give more options. "options" (frames/properties/multi-situation moves) come with the character and "control" is developed by the player.

 

[UltimateRazer]

No but it's an example that counters what you're saying. I personally haven't seen the results with Ally's Shulk. And even then that's only TWO.

No, I'm looking at more than you are apparently.

I'm saying all this because I think your concerns are premature so that's that.

Lol characters like Ganon have a set control. They go hand in hand. My tea cup avatar agrees. How's your eye?

 

[Xyro77]

No but it's an example that counters what you're saying. I personally haven't seen the results with Ally's Shulk. And even then that's only TWO.

No, I'm looking at more than you are apparently.

I'm saying all this because I think your concerns are premature so that's that.

Lol characters like Ganon have a set control. They go hand in hand. My tea cup avatar agrees. How's your eye?

Nothing you said is a counter. And if mine are premature then yours most def are if you think a Ganon in top 5 is worth mentioning or if you think a charizard going to game 5 with a diddy (who has no charizard exp) means anything in the grand scheme of Char or Diddy or smash 4.

again, control is left up to the player. options are built in. the character either has them or doesnt.

My eye is recovering well and should be totally healed by TGC 2 but ill def have a scar. it sucks.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Dude, let us see a picture of it right now.

 

[Xyro77]

 

[Xyro77]

if anybody wants to join my room. lets do it

 

[megaFoX]

xyro, you can join my game if you want.

 

[Shaya]

I got some good play time on WiiU now (it only just got released). Less sad than before, although I think the ceiling would have rose higher than the floor did.
I suppose in one's ability to react and respond better to grabs/space, etc, then those characters who were dominating with single actions you couldn't deal with actually are going "as expected" (it's crazy how different it feels to 3ds).

But yeah, I still think it's probably going to be a top/high/everyone else game without further balance patches. But I don't think we're far away from having something pretty good.
This could be the game where the best players are bringing out a different character every time and winning (ala isai in 64), skill in this seems to be more about fundamentals (because strengths/number of options between most characters are similar, it's just we're dealing with BS risk/reward early on in the meta) than character proficiency.

I'm a little sad that Villager looks like the type of character able to successfully win planking. Custom specials accentuates this really badly, and I almost feel like that character in and of itself is reason enough to have them banned *sigh*. Either way, need DMG or dphat or similar with iron wills and balls of steels to abuse that and see if it's truly successful.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Dude, you'll have a scar. Make a good war story and work it.

I see Diddy rose this weekend. He will be promptly murdered at TGC imo.

 

[Espy Rose]

For the record, my Sonic has been having a huge issue with adapting to the WiiU variant simply because my style is no longer the most efficient means for me. I'm having to relearn my character all over again.

It's a lot more fun than I thought, mostly because he's better.

 

[UltimateRazer]

Well my character was literally removed from the game. So I'm learning 2 new characters from scratch with a little 3rd and teams oriented character. It's fun

 

[Xyro77]

I'm just sad it's a brawl 2.0 but at least Palutena is fun. i hope she isnt terrible or picked alot


Also, i am updating the PR right now so that we can have updated/more accurate seeding. Ill show the top 15 instead of the top 10 this time since we have a lot more players reaching the requirements to be on PR.

 

[Xyro77]

also, how do i do spoiler tags on SWF these days?


edit: nvm lol

 

[z00ted]

savage lyfe

 

[Sync.]

Everything Razer said is definitely right! Love this game a lot of characters have untapped broken potential and variance to play styles is easy to achieve in this game wtf? Punishing is even better because this game. This game gives people more chances to make mistakes hehe >
Excited to see how TGC goes, gonna be sick and yes Diddy needs to be eradicated (DI down throw correctly, don't get hit by random bananas, learn match ups and counterpick that boi).

I got a new character for you Flip

 

[Xyro77]

edit: ignore this. i found it.

 

[Xyro77]

The Houston Tier List (v2.0) has been updated and is on the first post of this thread. All data used to calculate the HTL as well as the info on how the results are calculated are on the first post as well.

TGC 2 is next week and i will be using this PR to seed. If you have any questions, please ask.

 

[Fliphopper]

1. Trela has a 100.0% performance ratio based off of 2 tournaments
2.FlipHop has a 79.3% performance ratio based off of 3 tournaments
3. GrimTurtle has a 77.3% performance ratio based off of 4 tournaments

Razor TGC 2 will determine the fate of our ranks.

Xyro for TGC 2, Any chance singles will finish before 9PM?

Edit: Why is everybody up? I just got done DJing lol.

 

[Xyro77]

If people check out/obey the rules i have updated on the TGC 2 thread http://smashboards.com/threads/dec-...-2-free-food-free-venue-houston-texas.370613/ then yes it should end before 9pm. I need set-ups

 

[VashTehStampede]

Cant wait to throw my name up on this list, only gonna get better and better from here ~

 

[Player-4]

Push TCG to December 13th

 

[Xyro77]

Push TCG to December 13th

Can't. The event is 6 days away, man.

 

[Sync.]

Allan you should register all the early people as they come in. Will make that long line BS not take up time and we can also start on time. If people are late eff them and make them pay late fee with no seed. It's that easy

 

[Xyro77]

Already doing that. I'll be there at 9am

 

[Spinach Ops™]

NNID: Spinach.Ops
Facebook.com/arubiksinfectus

 

[Maniak]

I see smash 4 as the street fighter 4 of the series. Melee may be 3rd strike. Smash 4 will bring in the numbers and probably end up being the most popular even though melee/third strike is more technical. The beautiful graphics and easier learning curve will allow new players to feel more comfortable with the game and be able to get into it. While the veteran players will still have the fundamentals, mind games and reading of opponents down. At first people complained of sf4 being a watered down version but because of the ease in learning the basics to play, it now has the most entrance and is the most played sf game of the series. I think smash 4 will be great for the community. Can't wait for the future of smash.

 

[Sync.]

Maniak, what part of Houston do you live in? If you want some offline practice you can always hit me up for it. A lot of people play at my house on the regular so maybe you can come through and train man

 

[Maniak]

Maniak, what part of Houston do you live in? If you want some offline practice you can always hit me up for it. A lot of people play at my house on the regular so maybe you can come through and train man

Yes man I'm down. I live near 290 and the beltway Jersey Village area. LMK when and where Im just studying for finals this week.