Honor among Smashers

[Union of Darkness]

I have a question I'd like to pose to all the smashers out there, competitive or otherwise.

I've never played in a tournament but I've always wondered about the principles some smashers have. Earlier today I was playing against a Marth and he locked me against the hill on Pokemon Stadium 2 Earth terrain with his d-tilt and promptly KO'd me with an up-smash when my percentage was high enough.

I thought to myself "are people really satisfied with achieving victory in such a cheap manner?" I suppose they are if stages are banned because of tactics like these.

So my question to the community is do you have any principles within the game that you follow? Do you believe in giving your opponent a certain amount of leeway? Or is it strictly "win by any means necessary?"

Personally, I try to abide by the age old "treat others as you would want to be treated." I try to avoid edgehogging and locking opponents against walls. To a competitive player that might sound ludicrous, but I can't take pride in victory when I win by, say, chaingrabbed my opponent into oblivion or camping for an entire match like a coward.

Give me your thoughts.

 

[Mic_128]

"Treat others as you want to be treated" is not a good way to look at smash. Does that mean you'll suicide so they can suicide for you?

If you want to win, you do whatever is in your power to win.

 

[Aleol]

Honor is a dead notion, now replaced with greed and bigotry. Nobody cares how they win, they care That they win. Assuming otherwise is simply naive. It's hardly satisfiying

Personally, I've tried to be as honorable as I can, but really, nowadays it's a dead concept. In fighting games it's not applicable. You play to win

 

[B.U.S.]

I play to have fun, satisfying matches without limiting myself in the process.

I'm not in a rush to land infinites and the like, but if they happen, they happen.

As a general rule, I respect my opponents.

Edit: It seems I'm among few.

 

[Flayl]

Only people that would do that in a friendly match are *******s. For training and tournament purposes though, all is fair.

edit: just read that you think edgehogging is cheap. For the record, I'm only talking about wall infinites and such.

 

[Duckys]

Lol, don't know how you can be 'honorable' in a game >_<. But ye you should respect your opponents when playing but not playing aggressive etc against your opponent will get you no where, its always good to be cheap because being cheap can end up in a win i'm sure most of the top Brawl players play aggresive and do cheap moves but yet still respect their opponent.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=34747

Better than the Sirlin article, though someone will probably post that too.

tl;dr version: Honor is bull****. If you want to play "honorably" than play something you can't compete in.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

You want to talk about true "honor?" If you're the one with honor, you should feel insulted if your opponent doesn't edgehog you, or doesn't punish you for something you brought upon yourself, like going against a wall in the first place. Would you be happy if you just did an Up-B and were free falling to an opponent directly below you, but he decided not to up smash you because he felt it wasn't the right thing to do?

The most "honorable" thing for two players to do is to play their hardest against each other without holding anything back. Anything else, at least to me, is looking down on the loser. Which isn't honor in the least.

 

[Union of Darkness]

You want to talk about true "honor?" If you're the one with honor, you should feel insulted if your opponent doesn't edgehog you, or doesn't punish you for something you brought upon yourself, like going against a wall in the first place. Would you be happy if you just did an Up-B and were free falling to an opponent directly below you, but he decided not to up smash you because he felt it wasn't the right thing to do?

The most "honorable" thing for two players to do is to play their hardest against each other without holding anything back. Anything else, at least to me, is looking down on the loser. Which isn't honor in the least.

I didn't think of it that way. Obviously there can't be exceptions to what's called cheap and what isn't.

As I thought, my way of thinking only holds me back.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I have a question I'd like to pose to all the smashers out there, competitive or otherwise.

I've never played in a tournament but I've always wondered about the principles some smashers have. Earlier today I was playing against a Marth and he locked me against the hill on Pokemon Stadium 2 Earth terrain with his d-tilt and promptly KO'd me with an up-smash when my percentage was high enough.

I thought to myself "are people really satisfied with achieving victory in such a cheap manner?" I suppose they are if stages are banned because of tactics like these.

So my question to the community is do you have any principles within the game that you follow? Do you believe in giving your opponent a certain amount of leeway? Or is it strictly "win by any means necessary?"

Personally, I try to abide by the age old "treat others as you would want to be treated." I try to avoid edgehogging and locking opponents against walls. To a competitive player that might sound ludicrous, but I can't take pride in victory when I win by, say, chaingrabbed my opponent into oblivion or camping for an entire match like a coward.

Give me your thoughts.

Honor is not using outside influences (like modded controllers, or unplugging a person's controller) to win the game.


Beyond that, the game has written rules, essentially what is programmed in. Then we have tournament rules, really, what more do we need?

The fact is, by imposing these arbitrary rules, you're only limiting your ability to compete, I have no issue with using a d-tilt lock, and I expect you to do the same given the opportunity, because the game allows it and it's not a broken maneuver (in the competitive sense).



By hobbling yourself with these arbitrary honor rules, you're merely making yourself a weaker player, and therefore, making a game against you less satisfying. If you win, the message to your opponent becomes, "I didn't even use my full power against you". If you lose, the message is, "if I use my full power, I could've won".

That's really not fair to your opponent. Play, no-holds barred, using as many in-game advantages as you can get. That's what makes the game interesting. Without that, you merely insult your foe or rob him/her of his/her joy in victory.


Play to win.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=34747

Better than the Sirlin article, though someone will probably post that too.

tl;dr version: Honor is bull****. If you want to play "honorably" than play something you can't compete in.

That would be me.

Regardless, honor isn't bs, honor is adhering to the written rules of the game, such as not unplugging your opponent's controller. But, within the game world, there are a scant few rules of honor that must be adhered to (tournament rules namely), and none of which are held solely in one competitor's mind.

I didn't think of it that way. Obviously there can't be exceptions to what's called cheap and what isn't.

As I thought, my way of thinking only holds me back.

Congrats, recognition of the weakness of the mentality is what gets you past scrub stage.

Believe me, things are a lot more interesting this way.

 

[Edds]

expect something like in friendlys not at tourneys.

if a mate of mine suicides by a bad recovery (sideB instead of upB). i usually suicide myself afterwards. but i wouldnt do this at a tourney

 

[KosukeKGA]

Hey guys, play with honor!

Stop being cheap *******s who use glitches. God, I hate that **** and don't know how to adapt to it so I just blame others for my inferiority.

What the hell is playing to win? More like, playing to be a ****ing asswipe.

GAWD

 

[Shinkagehadou]

I play with honor, I let my opponent get back in the ring, if my opponent stops moving for whatever reason or goofs off I let themAnd I'm 100% percent against cliffhanging . Tournament or not I play with honor.

 

[matricide]

i personally think that being too friendly lik not edgehogging in friendlies doesn't help anyone to get better. Using dirty techniques are what make the game fun and create a laugh of tension which makes your opponent want to be better. Its the spamming and infinites which ruin a game. edgehogs and glitches are the only real way to practice timing, practicability, and uses in a real match, which is impossible to do on computers most of the time cuz they will random footstool at inhuman range and perfection or powershield everything.

It serves no purpose to let friends return cuz your nice, this is where certain characters shine (in edgeguard and hogging) while is others weakness.

For instance, these are the only way somebody is going to kill a good oli, or he'll get to 280 percent because he recovers so well cuz of his weight.

My line at gayness is extreme turtling like in melee, a double missile spamming samus versus a marth on final destination which rolls away as you get closer.


Friendlies are where you fine tune your efforts, and if you go soft, you adnd your opponent aren't helping each other get better at the game and enjoy pllaying new people. It sucks when this line is uttered "dude, im done, that guy is too good " It sucks when you have to say that.

The only time i would ever go easy is when im obviously better than the other person, but normally i would just be extra risky and sometimes kill myself to save them with a fastfalled uair or something. or you can work on your teching by letting your percent go and work on di too, or dodging and stuff. or better yet try new characters.

 

[Zero]

In most cases, unwritten rules are created to give one party an advantage. It is such with "honourable" actions in games, especially competitive games where the main aim is to beat the absolute brains out of someone. In games such as these, you do what you can do to win, with no restrictions. Not doing so and expecting the same behaviour is naive.

 

[Vyse]

What SamuraiPanda said.

 

[Corigames]

My honor extends out of the game. Don't get me wrong, I'll trash talk you before, after, and even during the match. However, just before the match starts and just after it has ended, there are a GGs, Good Luck, and a hand shake. If you can't do that, then you are worthless. The most honor I can give you in a match is playing to my fullest ability.

 

[Patsie]

****, some people are mad wound up about this issue.

Friendlies: The goal of friendlies, for me at least, is to have fun. Learning and winning are secondary and tertiary concerns, respectively. As such, I normally gauge what my friend is cool with -- if he really gets upset at edgehogging, then I won't do it. I don't think it's a cheap tactic, but if it really brings down the fun of playing the game together, it's smarter for me to just play without it. If I get too pissed at someone camping me in a friendly, I'll let them know, and they usually stop. It's mutual, since we both would rather play without being upset the whole time. It's just more fun.

Competitive: I think the key here is understanding that anything goes. Personally, I know that I probably won't get money when I enter a tournament, but I try to get better when I play. The main thing is to win, for me, but that doesn't mean I'll do anything and everything. I won't use infinites because, on a personal level, I feel like I'm not allowing my opponent a chance to play the game. I understand, however, that they can be used against me, and I need to be prepared for that.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

This issue is one of my biggest gripes with the gaming community (not only in smash but in all competitive video game scenes).

Obviously my standpoint is going to be biased because I am firmly against competitive smash. Personally, I think it is a waste of time and it effectively strips the soul from the game. "Playing to win," when it comes to Smash (or any video game for that matter) is an incredibly pathetic viewpoint (and I must repeat that this is my opinion. I doubt I'll have the majority viewpoint, especially in this venue of competitive smashers, but I will nonetheless voice what I have to say. I expect to be generalized as a "scrub," "noob" or simply a jerk, but that's to be expected when someone speaks out against common thinking).

Competition is a good thing, but only if expressed in a healthy way. I am a competitive person (I am an amateur boxer). When I box, I play to win, and there are many positive outcomes in having that mindset. But things are different for me when it comes to Super Smash Bros. Smash is obviously not meant to be competitive; ever notice how 90% of its content is tournament illegal. When I smash, my main objective is to be having fun; a video game is nothing more than cheap, pointless entertainment. There's nothing wrong with that, but it shouldn't be taken beyond face value.

Playing to win is only important if that victory is meaningful. If you honestly believe that winning in a Smash tournament has any meaningful impact on your life, then your a pretty pathetic person.

I've heard the argument that it's just a hobby, no different than collecting, or knitting, or writing. But when you write, collect, or knit, you don't play to win, do you? Also, most hobbies have beneficial outcomes. When you collect something, you have timeless pieces that might have significance in the future. When you knit, you've created something of your own that has its uses, and when you write you've created your own creative piece. But smashing? People take it out of context and contort it until it fits what they want to do with it until it loses its appeal.

In my short time in the competitive scene, I've come to severely dislike the community and attitudes of the players. In my experience (and I must STRESS that this is in my own experience and not a direct attack on any of the people here), competitive smashers are ball-ess, spirit-less people; suckers of Satan's ****, each and every one of them. (Sorry for the animosity, but huge kudo's if you get the reference).

These qualities go beyond the gaming community; they can be compared and contrasted with all communities of the Earth. But, in competitive gamers I see such a lack of creativity and personal thought. For example, a large number of competitive smashers main Snake or MK solely for the reason that they are "broken," and they desire to win so badly, rather than considering a character based on playstyle or connection (with a character. I.e., a hardcore pokemon fan who mains Pikachu or Pokemon Trainer). People accept mediocrity and banality (kudo's x2 if you get the reference) as the standard instead of striving to be something better.

How can people be so hard-***** about not using items and specific stages, yet do things like infinite a person against a wall until they KO them? If you care about winning so much, why not bring that competitiveness into an aspect of your life where it is a healthy quality, instead of a video game, something that is pointless beyond menial entertainment Again, this is my opinion, your aloud to live out your life the way you wish and you shouldn't regard what anyone else has to say about it. I'm just throwing out food for thought and voicing my opinion on the matter.

*Puts up flameshield*

 

[PCHU]

I do think that chaingrabbing is cheap to an extent, but I think it is a very useful tactic.
I win tons because of this.
I don't know what to say, really.
In tourneys, do they allow it?
I would come to one for a fair, skillful match.
But if they say you can chaingrab, and nobody has any complaints, I'm chaining this fool to his grave.

MY POST COUNT IS RIGHT AT SIX HUNDREEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

 

[M@v]

Samurai Panda I really liked how you put it.

Pending who I play with, there is some honor. For example, If im playing someone in an online match, and he kills himself while under like 20% and I know it was a stupid mistake, ill jump off and kill myself to make it even. Most of the times its no limits though. One match I played on Corneria had me fox vs a pikachu. For those who don't know pikachu can chaingrab fox up to 80%. Needless to say he started doing it. So i responded by trapping him in an infinite shine under the Tail of the great fox. In a tournament, if someone kills themself in a match, im not going to show any remorse, because its a tournament, and they should be extra careful anyway.

 

[Ørion]

I never chaingrab (but dont play as a character who has any lol) but IMO its perfectly fair to edgehog and edgeguard, those are just tactics. If i'm playing against someone who has a tether, i'm going to hug the edge.

 

[PentaSalia]

Such cheap tactics is why I stopped going to local smash tourneys.
I know the tactics are available to me, but I just feel wrong if I would win with such cowardly play.
Whether friendlies or tourney play, I never edgehog, or chaingrab into KO. I am just not one for so called "competitive" play....

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

accidental double post. (just use the other one)

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

I have a question I'd like to pose to all the smashers out there, competitive or otherwise.

I've never played in a tournament but I've always wondered about the principles some smashers have. Earlier today I was playing against a Marth and he locked me against the hill on Pokemon Stadium 2 Earth terrain with his d-tilt and promptly KO'd me with an up-smash when my percentage was high enough.

I thought to myself "are people really satisfied with achieving victory in such a cheap manner?" I suppose they are if stages are banned because of tactics like these.

So my question to the community is do you have any principles within the game that you follow? Do you believe in giving your opponent a certain amount of leeway? Or is it strictly "win by any means necessary?"

Personally, I try to abide by the age old "treat others as you would want to be treated." I try to avoid edgehogging and locking opponents against walls. To a competitive player that might sound ludicrous, but I can't take pride in victory when I win by, say, chaingrabbed my opponent into oblivion or camping for an entire match like a coward.

Give me your thoughts.

Your opponent has clearly shown you how he would like to be treated. Don't disappoint him.


And to Leprechaun_Drunk, you've been doing a lot of complaining about competitive smash lately, and to be frank I don't think you'll find many supporters here. People get enjoyment and satisfaction from competing in earnest against other people, and for some, that's enough reason in and of itself to continue doing so. How they do it is up to them entirely. What's "meaningful" and "worthwhile" and what's not isn't something for you to decide. Competing in a sport doesn't make you a better person than anyone on here.

As for your other comment, yes many people who write, knit, and even collect do "play to win". There are all sorts of contests out there for writing and knitting, and many collectors relish the opportunity to one up their companions when the opportunity arises. And all of those undesirable traits you listed can be applied to virtually any pursuit. Writers in particular display a lack of creativity on a daily basis.

So why come on here and complain about it? It's about as healthy, beneficial, and "meaningful" as the competitive smashing you seem to despise so thoroughly. So if it bothers you that much, I'd say take your own advice and go do something you consider meaningful instead of clogging the board with biased, hateful posts that no one really wants to see. Everyone will be better off for it. You included.

 

[Martial]

I was playing my friend's Snake as Dedede in a friendly a couple of weeks ago; he picks "Random" for the stage select, and Shadow Moses comes up. Now, obviously, if I get a single grab on him anywhere on the stage, he loses a stock. Incidentally, this would make for an incredibly boring match. My solution was to inform him of the infinite (in case he didn't know about it beforehand), and to simply back-throw him whenever I hit a wall with my chaingrabbery. Generally, I play to win; however, I really have no desire to play a friendly match that will consist only of infinites, because that is not only boring to do AND watch, but it really doesn't help me improve my game any. Long story short, **** honour. Just play to have fun. In most cases, winning is fun; when that ceases to be the case, then something needs to be changed. (As it turns out, I won the match anyways).

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

And to Leprechaun_Drunk, you've been doing a lot of complaining about competitive smash lately, and to be frank I don't think you'll find many supporters here. People get enjoyment and satisfaction from competing in earnest against other people, and for some, that's enough reason in and of itself to continue doing so. How they do it is up to them entirely. What's "meaningful" and "worthwhile" and what's not isn't something for you to decide. Competing in a sport doesn't make you a better person than anyone on here.

As for your other comment, yes many people who write, knit, and even collect do "play to win". There are all sorts of contests out there for writing and knitting, and many collectors relish the opportunity to one up their companions when the opportunity arises. And all of those undesirable traits you listed can be applied to virtually any pursuit. Writers in particular display a lack of creativity on a daily basis.

So why come on here and complain about it? It's about as healthy, beneficial, and "meaningful" as the competitive smashing you seem to despise so thoroughly. So if it bothers you that much, I'd say take your own advice and go do something you consider meaningful instead of clogging the board with biased, hateful posts that no one really wants to see. Everyone will be better off for it. You included.

Did you read my post? I clearly expressed that I don't believe I make the standards when it comes to what people should do with their time. I also stated that those undesirable traits where applicable to all communities of Earth, not to mention that I said I wanted to voice my opinion and that's why I was posting. At least when I post on the forums I use my own conceptual and reasoning thinking ability. I KNOW that my posts aren't popular because they go against the GENERAL CONSENSUS of most people on these forums, as I clearly pointed out in my post. As for writing, knitting or collecting to win, I think your point only enforces some of mine.

People don't even consider hearing other's out if their opinions on things are different...it's maddening. I'm not going to sugar-coat my opinions because they go against the norm. If your going to respond to my posts at least do me the courtesy to read them and (at least try to) thoroughly understand them, and THEN retort. I am totally open to considering new things, but thus far nobody has come up with an argument convincing enough to sway my standpoint.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

Did you read my post? I clearly expressed that I don't believe I make the standards when it comes to what people should do with their time. I also stated that those undesirable traits where applicable to all communities of Earth, not to mention that I said I wanted to voice my opinion and that's why I was posting. At least when I post on the forums I use my own conceptual and reasoning thinking ability. I KNOW that my posts aren't popular because they go against the GENERAL CONSENSUS of most people on these forums, as I clearly pointed out in my post. As for writing, knitting or collecting to win, I think your point only enforces some of mine.

People don't even consider hearing other's out if their opinions on things are different...it's maddening. I'm not going to sugar-coat my opinions because they go against the norm. If your going to respond to my posts at least do me the courtesy to read them and (at least try to) thoroughly understand them, and THEN retort. I am totally open to considering new things, but thus far nobody has come up with an argument convincing enough to sway my standpoint.

If you don't believe your standards are absolute then why are you complaining? You can't have it both ways. You obviously think your way is superior or you don't. Pick one.

Your opinion in a nutshell (as I read it):

1) competitive smashing is a waste of time and you shouldn't do it because it has no long term benefit.

2) choosing characters because they are offer advantage and have a proven record is wrong.

1)
- Competitive smashing can be an opportunity to travel and make friends and see places you might not otherwise have been inclined to. You might even make a little money on the side.

- Smashing provides considerable more enjoyment than many other hobbies to some people.

- Every one of your hobbies doesn't have to be some monumental achievement. Doing something soley for your own entertainment and satisfaction doesn't make you pathetic or less of a person.

- Having a hobby with a long term benefit doesn't make you better than those who do not. No more than having a higher paying job makes you better than someone else.

- Meaningful is subjective. For many people enjoyment is a legit use of time. If it makes them happy then why complain?

- Many people do not find casual smash to be fun or appealing. Without the competitive spirit to drive it, the game is just doing the same attacks over and over, grabbing items, and taunting. Casual smashing= dead end. No improvement. No development. It gets old.


2)

- The appeal of competition is trying your best against another person striving to do the same, as well as devising the best possible strategy and execution to improve your game. Learning to use a top tier character is a way to ensure that nothing is dragging you down and that you're giving it 100%.

- Creative playstyle does not equal good or efficient playstyle. Trying to win with Captain Falcon because you like him is all well and good, but what if you can't? Whoops sorry you're allowed to play top tiers unless you meet some dumb criteria! Never mind that they have huge advantages over whoever you're playing! Go home now! People have the right to play who they want for whatever reasons they want. It's unfair to give people a handicap just because they happen to like some character that isn't good. A character is just a tool like a tennis racket or a baseball bat. The actual competing is where the fun is derived from, not from trying to be unique and using a bad character just for the sake of it. You should be paying more attention to the players themselves, not what character they are using.

- It's not our fault that the game is so obviously skewed towards certain characters. We have to work with what we are given.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Obviously my standpoint is going to be biased because I am firmly against competitive smash. Personally, I think it is a waste of time and it effectively strips the soul from the game. "Playing to win," when it comes to Smash (or any video game for that matter) is an incredibly pathetic viewpoint (and I must repeat that this is my opinion. I doubt I'll have the majority viewpoint, especially in this venue of competitive smashers, but I will nonetheless voice what I have to say. I expect to be generalized as a "scrub," "noob" or simply a jerk, but that's to be expected when someone speaks out against common thinking).

Competition is a good thing, but only if expressed in a healthy way. I am a competitive person (I am an amateur boxer). When I box, I play to win, and there are many positive outcomes in having that mindset. But things are different for me when it comes to Super Smash Bros. Smash is obviously not meant to be competitive; ever notice how 90% of its content is tournament illegal. When I smash, my main objective is to be having fun; a video game is nothing more than cheap, pointless entertainment. There's nothing wrong with that, but it shouldn't be taken beyond face value.

90%? Hyperbole much?

Regardless, so?

Even if the game is clearly not meant to be competitive, if utilizing the options available in the game allow it to be a competitive game, why not play it that way? It's meaningful in that the competitive scene is fun. If you enjoy smash as "cheap pointless entertainment", then have fun. Nobody is stopping you. But for people who enjoy playing it as a contest of skill like myself... playing that way is uninteresting and not worth our time.

I'm a martial artist myself, and you'll see that every sparring match I ever do, I'm always playing to win, looking for that tiny advantage that will allow me to take my victory more easily. Not only do I enjoy this type of match, it prepares me for tournaments where I'll be facing people with the same attitude. And even more importantly, it helps prepare for the possibility of being forced to use it on the street, because in a life or death situation, would you give up any possible advantage.

Playing to win is only important if that victory is meaningful. If you honestly believe that winning in a Smash tournament has any meaningful impact on your life, then your a pretty pathetic person.

What makes winning in boxing any more meaningful then winning at smash?




Exactly, because you like boxing competitively,

I've heard the argument that it's just a hobby, no different than collecting, or knitting, or writing. But when you write, collect, or knit, you don't play to win, do you? Also, most hobbies have beneficial outcomes. When you collect something, you have timeless pieces that might have significance in the future. When you knit, you've created something of your own that has its uses, and when you write you've created your own creative piece. But smashing? People take it out of context and contort it until it fits what they want to do with it until it loses its appeal.

There are competitive scenes for all of the above.

Furthermore, a hobby's usefulness is defined not by some outside outcome, it's defined by WHETHER YOU ENJOY IT.

The point of hobbies is to have fun, and whatever you do, you can't tell me that I don't enjoy breakdancing, or writing. That's all that matters.

In my short time in the competitive scene, I've come to severely dislike the community and attitudes of the players. In my experience (and I must STRESS that this is in my own experience and not a direct attack on any of the people here), competitive smashers are ball-ess, spirit-less people; suckers of Satan's ****, each and every one of them. (Sorry for the animosity, but huge kudo's if you get the reference).

Meet more competitive players...

These qualities go beyond the gaming community; they can be compared and contrasted with all communities of the Earth. But, in competitive gamers I see such a lack of creativity and personal thought. For example, a large number of competitive smashers main Snake or MK solely for the reason that they are "broken," and they desire to win so badly, rather than considering a character based on playstyle or connection (with a character. I.e., a hardcore pokemon fan who mains Pikachu or Pokemon Trainer). People accept mediocrity and banality (kudo's x2 if you get the reference) as the standard instead of striving to be something better.

Lol, yeah, everyone mains MK and Snake, that's exactly how it is[/sarcasm]

Notice how not one of the players so far who attacked this viewpoint are snake or mk mains?

Yeah, that should tell you something.

People are constantly looking for ways to improve with different characters, look at Yoshi's new ATs for example.

The smash community in general is very creative with coming up with new ways to improve their character and the metagame.

How can people be so hard-***** about not using items and specific stages, yet do things like infinite a person against a wall until they KO them? If you care about winning so much, why not bring that competitiveness into an aspect of your life where it is a healthy quality, instead of a video game, something that is pointless beyond menial entertainment Again, this is my opinion, your aloud to live out your life the way you wish and you shouldn't regard what anyone else has to say about it. I'm just throwing out food for thought and voicing my opinion on the matter.

Again, why is it unhealthy here? You've decided that it's completely unhealthy with no reasonable backing whatsoever.

 

[LP4Life666]

This issue is one of my biggest gripes with the gaming community (not only in smash but in all competitive video game scenes).

Obviously my standpoint is going to be biased because I am firmly against competitive smash. Personally, I think it is a waste of time and it effectively strips the soul from the game. "Playing to win," when it comes to Smash (or any video game for that matter) is an incredibly pathetic viewpoint (and I must repeat that this is my opinion. I doubt I'll have the majority viewpoint, especially in this venue of competitive smashers, but I will nonetheless voice what I have to say. I expect to be generalized as a "scrub," "noob" or simply a jerk, but that's to be expected when someone speaks out against common thinking).

Competition is a good thing, but only if expressed in a healthy way. I am a competitive person (I am an amateur boxer). When I box, I play to win, and there are many positive outcomes in having that mindset. But things are different for me when it comes to Super Smash Bros. Smash is obviously not meant to be competitive; ever notice how 90% of its content is tournament illegal. When I smash, my main objective is to be having fun; a video game is nothing more than cheap, pointless entertainment. There's nothing wrong with that, but it shouldn't be taken beyond face value.

Playing to win is only important if that victory is meaningful. If you honestly believe that winning in a Smash tournament has any meaningful impact on your life, then your a pretty pathetic person.

I've heard the argument that it's just a hobby, no different than collecting, or knitting, or writing. But when you write, collect, or knit, you don't play to win, do you? Also, most hobbies have beneficial outcomes. When you collect something, you have timeless pieces that might have significance in the future. When you knit, you've created something of your own that has its uses, and when you write you've created your own creative piece. But smashing? People take it out of context and contort it until it fits what they want to do with it until it loses its appeal.

In my short time in the competitive scene, I've come to severely dislike the community and attitudes of the players. In my experience (and I must STRESS that this is in my own experience and not a direct attack on any of the people here), competitive smashers are ball-ess, spirit-less people; suckers of Satan's ****, each and every one of them. (Sorry for the animosity, but huge kudo's if you get the reference).

These qualities go beyond the gaming community; they can be compared and contrasted with all communities of the Earth. But, in competitive gamers I see such a lack of creativity and personal thought. For example, a large number of competitive smashers main Snake or MK solely for the reason that they are "broken," and they desire to win so badly, rather than considering a character based on playstyle or connection (with a character. I.e., a hardcore pokemon fan who mains Pikachu or Pokemon Trainer). People accept mediocrity and banality (kudo's x2 if you get the reference) as the standard instead of striving to be something better.

How can people be so hard-***** about not using items and specific stages, yet do things like infinite a person against a wall until they KO them? If you care about winning so much, why not bring that competitiveness into an aspect of your life where it is a healthy quality, instead of a video game, something that is pointless beyond menial entertainment Again, this is my opinion, your aloud to live out your life the way you wish and you shouldn't regard what anyone else has to say about it. I'm just throwing out food for thought and voicing my opinion on the matter.

*Puts up flameshield*

I respect that you voiced your own opinion, even though you anticipated it to go down in flames. These boards should really follow your example more often. However, your view on the game is short-sighted, and I will do my best as to explain why.

The reason why you think 90% of all content is tournament illegal is because Brawl is such a massive game. There has to be some kind of regulations we can agree upon to have a match not depend entirely on which item drops next to you first. That being said, there has to be some sort of limitations on what items, stages, and other things to limit the amount of chance involved and more dependant on actual skill and knowledge of the game's mechanics. Nobody likes being killed because a Bob-omb spawned randomly on top of your F-smash.

Also, the reason why people would choose to be competitive over a game is because it's what they love doing. You can say the same about Baseball or Football, people even devote their lives to these sports because they enjoy them so much. Just because Brawl is a game doesn't mean people aren't passionate about it. If you don't believe me, theres entire boards based on this single game. (oh wait...)

There is one other thing that stuck out at me while reading your post...
"Playing to win is only important if that victory is meaningful. If you honestly believe that winning in a Smash tournament has any meaningful impact on your life, then your a pretty pathetic person."
It is not up for you to decide what is meaningful and what's not. It's strictly your opinion, and yours alone. Obviously winning a tournament at Brawl is not going to be our life's work, but for most of us, it does stand for something. If you're going to have this kind of attitude towards this community, I don't see why you've bothered to post here in the first place.

 

[Leprechaun_Drunk]

Your opinion in a nutshell (as I read it):

1) competitive smashing is a waste of time and you shouldn't do it because it has no long term benefit.

2) choosing characters because they are offer advantage and have a proven record is wrong.

...................

either you read it wrong or i'm being very abstract and not expressing my thoughts cohesively............

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

...................

either you read it wrong or i'm being very abstract and not expressing my thoughts cohesively............

Perhaps you could consolidate your thoughts into a few sentences? There is no point in discussing it until we have agreed on whatever it is you're trying to say.

 

[BrawlBro]

So my question to the community is do you have any principles within the game that you follow? Do you believe in giving your opponent a certain amount of leeway? Or is it strictly "win by any means necessary?"

Personally, I try to abide by the age old "treat others as you would want to be treated." I try to avoid edgehogging and locking opponents against walls. To a competitive player that might sound ludicrous, but I can't take pride in victory when I win by, say, chaingrabbed my opponent into oblivion or camping for an entire match like a coward.

Give me your thoughts.

Your right you DO sound ludicrous. Not edgehogging??. If thats the principle your going to play by you might as well accept your never going to win a tournament.

And I dont think stuff like that is "cheap" at all. Locks and chaingrabs are considered some of the more advanced aspects of the game, not cheap noob tricks.

 

[momochuu]

This thread needs moar essays.

On Topic: The only thing I find "dishonorable" is killing someone during their taunt. Other than that, play to win I guess.

 

[LP4Life666]

This thread needs moar essays.

On Topic: The only thing I find "dishonorable" is killing someone during their taunt. Other than that, play to win I guess.

Hey, nothing better to do while I'm at work. <.<

 

[Tim_The_Enchanter]

Friendly matches should be about having fun and enjoying the matches. However, in tournament training and tournaments, I expect to be infi-grabbed and locked and my opponents should expect the same from me. If your opponent was locking you constantly in friendlies, then just tell them to stop being a d-bag and play for fun, if it's a tournament, you better start tech-chasing those Side-Bs and thunder stormin.

 

[Blackbelt]

It's not cheap (or dishonorable) if it helps you win.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's not cheap (or dishonorable) if it helps you win.

no...

If it doesn't violate the rules of the game (basically the programming and tournament rules) it's not dishonorable.


I think that unplugging your opponent's controller will help you win, but it's certainly dishonorable.

 

[Wiz]

.....................

 

[IWontGetOverTheDam]

My friend and I were playing the other day on Shadow Moses Island. He was Dedede. Guess what happened. After the match, I said to him, "Wow, you didn't even really earn that win." He replied, "So? What does the screen say?" There is no "cheap" and "fair" in a game like Smash. There is only win and lose.