Q&A Hint Block: Yoshi Question and Answer Thread

[Nikes]

Oh yeah about using double jump to turn around, I think it can make Bair > Fair into a combo, which most characters can't do (Marth is the only exception that comes to mind).
Anyway I'm wondering what to do when I'm a stock behind. Going rushdown makes it really easy to get kills, but it's a lot harder to do that when your opponent can play defensive all they want. Should I just play the same as I would against a defensive player?

I think that's a thing, it's hard to do but I remember getting it recently on someone, killed them at around 60% or 70% iirc. Feels good.

Regarding coming back from behind, it kind of depends on the player and character you're versing. Like if they're hyper aggressive that's an easy shield>downB but if they're ultra defensive, then that's a lot harder. :/ It's especially hard when people say "Don't fish for the kill, let it come to you" when you're versing someone like a Fox or a Diddy or a Sheik and the %'s just getting out of control...you have to figure out how to catch them off guard while playing the normal game, I think.
Not a fun situation for Yoshi to be in
Also keep egg lay in mind as it works great when rushing people down, even if it doesn't directly lead to a kill it still unsettles them somewhat.

 

[Pixel_]

How do you wavebounce Egg Lay using the cstick and the shoulder button as special? I remember reading it somewhere but I don't feel like looking for it

 

[Egg.]

How do you wavebounce Egg Lay using the cstick and the shoulder button as special? I remember reading it somewhere but I don't feel like looking for it

Hold the control stick forwards, then press the C-stick backwards and special at the same time. The timing is a bit strict, I personally prefer to just manually input wavebounces.

 

[Pixel_]

Hold the control stick forwards, then press the C-stick backwards and special at the same time. The timing is a bit strict, I personally prefer to just manually input wavebounces.

Cstick set to Smash or Attack? Smash isn't working for me.

 

[DJlive]

Cstick set to Smash or Attack? Smash isn't working for me.

Any shoulder button to special (unless you want to claw)
C-stick to attack

To do forward wavebounce (forward, retreat)
1. Move forward and hold
2. Simultaneously move C-stick backward and press shoulder button

To do backward wavebounce (retreat, forward)
1. Move backward and...
Either
2a. Hold backward move C-stick forward and simultaneously press shoulder button or
2b. Simultaneously move forward, move C-stick backward and press shoulder button.

Timing is strict. Move C-stick first, attack comes out. Press special first, egg roll comes out. Fail to move control stick or C-stick, might just end in normal egg lay.

 

[JustSomeScrub]

I was watching Zero's video about characters he thinks have potential. He mentioned Yoshi has the most amount of advanced tech in the game.

But I don't see what he's referring to. B-reverses are something tons of characters can do.

Other than this what useful ATs does Yoshi have?

 

[Sinister Slush]

Not much tbh, Zero just talking with very little meaning to his words.

 

[DJlive]

Maybe, Yoshi doesn't have tech that's specific to him... Except
Egg toss slide
Double jump crouch slide
Jab crouch combos
Straight up eggs

But he benefits with many advanced tech
Perfect pivot/uturn utilt/jab
B-reverse/C-bounce egg lay
Jab smash
Sloped down b travel
Oos Nair
Jump cancel smashes

remind me if there are any more tech you want to include

 

[Pixel_]

Maybe, Yoshi doesn't have tech that's specific to him... Except
Egg toss slide
Double jump crouch slide
Jab crouch combos
Straight up eggs

But he benefits with many advanced tech
Perfect pivot/uturn utilt/jab
B-reverse/C-bounce egg lay
Jab smash
Sloped down b travel
Oos Nair
Jump cancel smashes

remind me if there are any more tech you want to include

Wait what's DJ crouch slide

(also don't forget the millions of Egg Roll tech)

 

[JustSomeScrub]

Wait what's DJ crouch slide

(also don't forget the millions of Egg Roll tech)

I'd like to know as well. Also what's an Egg toss slide?

The general stuff mentioned I know about as it's not Yoshi specific.

 

[Pixel_]

I'd like to know as well. Also what's an Egg toss slide?

The general stuff mentioned I know about as it's not Yoshi specific.

Pretty sure ETS is when you jump cancel Up B (when you're running it makes you slide, hence the name). I'm guessing Jab crouch refers to crouching between jabs (which mysmashcorner put in his video) and using eggs is practically a technique in some cases because of the frame traps and stuff. Never heard of DJ crouch slide though.
Anyway why would ZeRo say that Yoshi is super technical when that's not the case? Did he think Yoshi's techs from earlier games carried over? Did he think that Yoshi does best relying on wavebouncing? I mean, I'm pretty sure I knows his stuff, and I don't get why he would throw something in like that.

 

[Codaption]

Fullhop Dair as an approach option? Of course, delaying the input so that it autocancels on the earliest possible frame.

It'd lose pretty hard to disjointed anti-airs but beyond that I feel like it could have a similar application as Cloud's. I've begun to use it once or twice and so far I haven't been punished for it.

Oh yeah about using double jump to turn around, I think it can make Bair > Fair into a combo, which most characters can't do (Marth is the only exception that comes to mind).
Anyway I'm wondering what to do when I'm a stock behind. Going rushdown makes it really easy to get kills, but it's a lot harder to do that when your opponent can play defensive all they want. Should I just play the same as I would against a defensive player?

I highly doubt it'd be true (feel free to prove me wrong, can't test atm), but certainly it'd be a nice mixup. I've also been considering Bair-> Uair at lowish percents, which also isn't even resembling true, but the meager disjoint on Uair should give it at least a semblance of safety. It doesn't really seem very useful, though; definitely not something to use for its own sake, more of a "in case we use bair here" kind of thing. Same with autocancel Bair-> Ftilt on platforms.

 

[Delta-cod]

Fullhop Dair as an approach option? Of course, delaying the input so that it autocancels on the earliest possible frame.

I've thought about it before. It loses HARD to any attack, really, due to start up. But if you can condition your opponent to be shielding through repeated Fair/Nair use or something, it's not a terrible mixup.

 

[Codaption]

There's also fullhop fastfall Dair, which is essentially the same except that you don't have to wait to use the move. Which would make it a little harder to react to and therefore scarier to challenge beyond being read.

 

[DJlive]

Wait what's DJ crouch slide

(also don't forget the millions of Egg Roll tech)

Yeah egg roll tech too

This I got from Sky. When you double jump fast fall, you get slide if you quarter circle left or right from fast fall to the ground. This is a true neutral position so you can tilt or jab out of it. Other options like nair, usmash and etc work as well.

 

[Pixel_]

Yeah egg roll tech too

This I got from Sky. When you double jump fast fall, you get slide if you quarter circle left or right from fast fall to the ground. This is a true neutral position so you can tilt or jab out of it. Other options like nair, usmash and etc work as well.

I tried it just now, and I don't know if I did it right, but honestly I think Pivot Landing is more useful and doesn't need a double jump.
EDIT: https://youtu.be/pgSYA8QrviE

 

[DJlive]

I tried it just now, and I don't know if I did it right, but honestly I think Pivot Landing is more useful and doesn't need a double jump.
EDIT: https://youtu.be/pgSYA8QrviE

It's effectively an extension of that. Application is after recovery to space yourself properly.

 

[Funkermonster]

I don't practice either character (although I am messing with a pocket Yoshi a lil bit for lolz), but out of pure curiousity: What do you guys think of the MU? Does Yoshi have any wins against any of the other top or high tier chars? My friend who is the best Sonic in my region says Yoshi is a losing MU for him.

But I've never heard this from anyone else and in my region where we have a lot of Yoshis, a LOT of people complain about Yoshi in general (though judging from what I've seen in a few of your threads here, it probably doesn't surprise you). My instincts find this a bit tough to believe, so I wanted to hear your thoughts on it.

Again, just genuinely curious.

 

[DJlive]

Sonics find Yoshi annoying because utilt and jab break spin dash. Plus Sonics don't like projectiles so egg works when you know when to use it.

The match up is pretty even tbh. You have to play lamer than Sonic in this mu.

 

[Codaption]

Most people find Yoshi tough to deal with at first just because he has a lot of stuff that can mess with players that lack experience against him. Once you know the matchup better, Yoshi's a bit easier to deal with, especially since he loses so hard to powershielding (and just shielding in general, really).

That said, Yoshi has the tools to take on the entire cast, as even his worst matchups are doable with the right knowledge (and continue to become moreso as our meta develops further). A lot of times it really does come down to who has better matchup experience on either side and, ultimately, who the better player is.

 

[Pixel_]

Is Battlefield actually good for Yoshi? I know that he has some interesting stuff (lol egg roll) but I noticed that his ledge options are kinda sad. Maybe I'm just used to doing ledge jump stuff, but roll/getup feel too predictable, and ledge drop > egg toss doesn't work when you've already used an egg. This is the same with Lylat and Dreamland, so am I just using ledge jump too much or what?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Is Battlefield actually good for Yoshi? I know that he has some interesting stuff (lol egg roll) but I noticed that his ledge options are kinda sad. Maybe I'm just used to doing ledge jump stuff, but roll/getup feel too predictable, and ledge drop > egg toss doesn't work when you've already used an egg. This is the same with Lylat and Dreamland, so am I just using ledge jump too much or what?

I always ban BF because platforms block our eggs and ground-pound. Also, good luck ever landing again.

That said, I know other Yoshis who love this stage because we survive forever. I don't agree with drawing a game out where you're effectively accomplishing nothing, but somewhere there must be some merit to actually wanting to play here.

 

[Pixel_]

I always ban BF because platforms block our eggs and ground-pound. Also, good luck ever landing again.

That said, I know other Yoshis who love this stage because we survive forever. I don't agree with drawing a game out where you're effectively accomplishing nothing, but somewhere there must be some merit to actually wanting to play here.

Survive longer? Does Battlefield have big blastzones?

 

[DJlive]

Yeah, that's my problem with battlefield, using eggs. Honestly, I think our best stage is either Smashville or Lylat

 

[Pixel_]

I've missed a Down B because of Lylat's tilts, but seems like a pretty good stage otherwise (and jump > down b onstage is pretty fun)

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Survive longer? Does Battlefield have big blastzones?

Yeah, the blastzones are a bit wider there. I can pretty frequently survive to 220%, but like I said, it doesn't matter if I can't get to stage to actually do anything with it.

Yeah, that's my problem with battlefield, using eggs. Honestly, I think our best stage is either Smashville or Lylat

I consider T&C our best stage. We can take advantage of a constantly changing stage because we're so adaptable, and it has a lower ceiling so ground pound setups will kill more often. SV and Lylat are also good... though careful with Lylat, the platforms can give us problems there too. Depends on the matchup - generally, I try to avoid this stage if I know the opponent favors it, like Bowser or DK. We can beat Rosie and Sheik here, though.

 

[DJlive]

I disagree with this. Using a lower ceiling stage isn't a benefit when others can use it better to their benefit. I won't bring ZSS, Mario, Donkey Kong, GW, Luigi, Bowser and etc to this stage knowing they can kill me at earlier percents than my around 70% down b.

That said, SV for me is our best stage because Jab dsmash is extremely reliable on this stage due to the short sides. Same with shield break fsmash. Or even edgeguard nair.

 

[Pixel_]

actually can I make a new stage discussion thread
edit: done, you guys should go over there to argue: http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshis-island-stage-discussion-thread.438263/

 

[Codaption]

Since they haven't taken it there yet, I'm go ha add my two cents to this conversation.

Those two cents being, Battlefield is wonderful for Yoshi. When we catch the opponent on a platform, we can mess them up six ways from Sunday. Fullhop Fair shield pressure practically for free, full platform coverage with Usmash, improved laddering (Utilt also pokes through platforms), easier recoveries and landings...

Oh and uh. Uthrow-> Dair -> Uair. Which you can get if you grab them under the top platform, kills at around 50, works on almost everyone and is nigh-guarenteed since the window to tech is practically nonexistant early on. That exists too.

So yeah, Battlefield's a pretty nice ride for us. Egg being less reliable there isn't an issue, because we're less reliant on them there (and it's not as if they're all that great in every matchup, anyway).

 

[KenboCalrissian]

I disagree with this. Using a lower ceiling stage isn't a benefit when others can use it better to their benefit. I won't bring ZSS, Mario, Donkey Kong, GW, Luigi, Bowser and etc to this stage knowing they can kill me at earlier percents than my around 70% down b.

That said, SV for me is our best stage because Jab dsmash is extremely reliable on this stage due to the short sides. Same with shield break fsmash. Or even edgeguard nair.

Absolutely. Kind of what I was saying about Lylat, I just also should have said it about T&C. Matchup trumps and should dictate stage pick always, though I consider it a great stage for us aside from the exceptions you mentioned.

Those two cents being, Battlefield is wonderful for Yoshi....easier recoveries and landings...

Could you give some tips on how to recover on Battlefield? I find myself tumbling above stage a stupid amount of time here, not to mention getting zoned out. If the opponent has stage control, they can cover literally every landing opportunity you have uncontested, especially if it's Rosa, Cloud, Mario, or Sonic.

 

[Scootch]

Do we have a Discord chat?

 

[Sinister Slush]

https://discordapp.com/invite/0i9JOJ7J8iBa5eHX

 

[DJlive]

Could you give some tips on how to recover on Battlefield? I find myself tumbling above stage a stupid amount of time here, not to mention getting zoned out. If the opponent has stage control, they can cover literally every landing opportunity you have uncontested, especially if it's Rosa, Cloud, Mario, or Sonic.

Battlefield gives you tons of options. You can do b reverse or wavebounce egg lay to mixup place of landing, fast fall and egg toss to mixup speed of landing. You can go on platforms and instashield. Yes there's pressure but just find openings and recover safely.

 

[Josedamac]

I keep losing my double jump with egg toss. what are some good ways to negate this

 

[Pixel_]

I keep losing my double jump with egg toss. what are some good ways to negate this

Please, PLEASE turn off tap jump. If you're using sideways wiimote I suggest switching controllers. If you really don't want to turn it off, you'll have to tilt the joystick slightly upwards, not enough for a jump but enough for the up input. You can try doing utilts for practice.

 

[Digdug]

Hey guys

I recently picked up yoshi and I have no idea why haha. I'm even planning on dropping greninja for him. I really like what I got out of him in training mode and I played 6 hours straight on for glory with him. There seems to be one thing I am struggling with and that is edge guarding. I tried looking it up on these forums but this website runs really poorly on my phone. I'm having issues covering get up options. If someone could link me where I could reading about edge guarding with yoshi or reply here it would be so helpful.

Thanks dig dug =)

 

[Pixel_]

Hey guys

I recently picked up yoshi and I have no idea why haha. I'm even planning on dropping greninja for him. I really like what I got out of him in training mode and I played 6 hours straight on for glory with him. There seems to be one thing I am struggling with and that is edge guarding. I tried looking it up on these forums but this website runs really poorly on my phone. I'm having issues covering get up options. If someone could link me where I could reading about edge guarding with yoshi or reply here it would be so helpful.

Thanks dig dug =)

I answered that over here: http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-on-stage-ledge-options.438106/
Basically you either spam eggs from roll distance, then react to whatever they do, or Dtilt spam right outside of ledge attack range. These are the safest options I know, most other options are either risky or lets them get away too easily.

 

[Scootch]

I really like what I got out of him in training mode and I played 6 hours straight on for glory with him.

You should really consider going on Smash Ladder instead of FG. The players there are a lot better than they are on FG, and usually the players are nice and will give you tips if you ask for some.

 

[DJlive]

Lol, Pixel that's not just his edgeguard options.

You can anticipate him using his DJ and catching it by throwing dair hitboxes to soft-spike the opponent (change your direction opposite to opponent di so it won't connect the last hit). This is my favorite because people normally have bad up bs.

You can jump back and fair spike as a 2 frame punish, or to cover a long recovery like tethers and Ness/Lucas pk rocket.

You can dtilt as a 2 frame punish.

You can ff from the edge and nair right away. Your goal depends on opponent recovery. If you got nair while the opponent is to the left, it will go to the left for the stage spike, if to the right, so they can't recover.

You can anticipate their recovery then shift momentum of bair to either get a stage spike or kill if their in kill percents.

 

[Pixel_]

Lol, Pixel that's not just his edgeguard options.

You can anticipate him using his DJ and catching it by throwing dair hitboxes to soft-spike the opponent (change your direction opposite to opponent di so it won't connect the last hit). This is my favorite because people normally have bad up bs.

You can jump back and fair spike as a 2 frame punish, or to cover a long recovery like tethers and Ness/Lucas pk rocket.

You can dtilt as a 2 frame punish.

You can ff from the edge and nair right away. Your goal depends on opponent recovery. If you got nair while the opponent is to the left, it will go to the left for the stage spike, if to the right, so they can't recover.

You can anticipate their recovery then shift momentum of bair to either get a stage spike or kill if their in kill percents.

I was going more for onstage edgeguards, but yes those are good options