Social Hideout of the Phantom Thieves - Joker Social

[Sigran101]

Sakurai has praised Persona 5's UI before, among just praising the game in general. https://personacentral.com/super-smash-bros-series-creator-discusses-persona-5s-ui/ So it would seem very likely that he's taken inspiration from it.

Looking at what he's said about the game, I bet Joker is on the list of characters he WANTS to add, along with Geno. The problem then would be whether or not it's realizable or justifiable.

 

[Robertman2]

Looking at what he's said about the game, I bet Joker is on the list of characters he WANTS to add, along with Geno. The problem then would be whether or not it's realizable or justifiable.

For realizable? There's already Sega content, so it probably wouldn't be too hard. Justifiable? The only justification Sakurai needs is that he wants it.

 

[DogManStar]

I feel like Joker as DLC is a real possibility. I hope they add more content in with DLC this time so we could get an AT or something maybe. Also, the music. I hope we get a nice selection of Persona series music if he's in.

I have my personal pipe dream ideas for Joker as DLC (AT for another Persona character or Persona/demon, Crow echo) but if he's in I'm mostly just expecting a stage and a good bit of music.

 

[CloudedSun]

I feel like Joker as DLC is a real possibility. I hope they add more content in with DLC this time so we could get an AT or something maybe. Also, the music. I hope we get a nice selection of Persona series music if he's in.

I have my personal pipe dream ideas for Joker as DLC (AT for another Persona character or Persona/demon, Crow echo) but if he's in I'm mostly just expecting a stage and a good bit of music.

It's hard not to expect Castlevania levels of music selection just for Persona 5 alone!

Blooming Villain, Keeper of Lust, Last Surprise, Wake Up Get Up Get Out There, Life Will Change... All fantastic collections of battle music.

 

[Double0Groove]

You can add me to this support list as well. Joker is currently my third most wanted 3rd party character right now, and I'm hoping he really makes the cut.

 

[Sigran101]

It's hard not to expect Castlevania levels of music selection just for Persona 5 alone!

Blooming Villain, Keeper of Lust, Last Surprise, Wake Up Get Up Get Out There, Life Will Change... All fantastic collections of battle music.

Don't forget Rivers in the Desert! Honestly, just thinking about Persona content in smash is making me giddy! I will have such a party if Joker gets in smash!

 

[NintenZ]

The Persona series soundtrack is insanely popular in Japan, I’m highly inclined to believe it would be popular with the sound team and could get a lot of tracks and arrangements as a result if it were to be represented in Smash.

 

[DogManStar]

The Persona series soundtrack is insanely popular in Japan, I’m highly inclined to believe it would be popular with the sound team and could get a lot of tracks and arrangements as a result if it were to be represented in Smash.

Agreed, I think we could see a lot of tracks, especially if the whole series is fair game. There are so many good options for Smash remixes, honestly. I feel like the great amount of content this series could potentially have for Smash would hopefully make Sakurai give it some more consideration to have a playable character.

 

[Sigran101]

So we know smash bros. exists in the world of persona 5 (with the title altered for copyright reasons) because Futaba references it. So if Joker gets in, then Futaba can play the game as someone from real life, at least in her world. So if he gets in, is he our first real life person in smash?

 

[Robertman2]

i don't think that's how it works


also ken griffith jr. was referenced in brawl

 

[Sigran101]

i don't think that's how it works


also ken griffith jr. was referenced in brawl

It was a joke.

 

[FamicomDisk]

So we know smash bros. exists in the world of persona 5 (with the title altered for copyright reasons) because Futaba references it. So if Joker gets in, then Futaba can play the game as someone from real life, at least in her world. So if he gets in, is he our first real life person in smash?

Joker's Final Smash is Futaba smashing the TV on the ground

 

[NintenZ]

Keep the dream going people:

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[Black Link521]

Oh that's so clean. It always makes me happy to see the support, especially from neat mockups like these.

 

[amageish]

Tangentially related to Persona 5 and Nintendo, but it's been confirmed that the worst Persona game with the worst localization Revelations: Persona is going to be pre-installed on the PlayStation Classic, in spite of all logic.

I don't know what this means, if anything, for the assoication between ATLUS/PlayStation versus ATLUS/Nintendo, but it's interesting that Sony is willing to consider that game a "classic" and include it over titles like Tomb Raider...

That said, if they do make a PlayStation 2 Classic, then I do expect it to have at least 5 ATLUS games (Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army, Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga, Persona 3, and Persona 4).

 

[Ultrashroomz]

So, how you guys feeling about Joker's (or any ATLUS rep honestly) chances as DLC?

 

[NintenZ]

So, how you guys feeling about Joker's (or any ATLUS rep honestly) chances as DLC?

I think he’s a possibility, the UI is very clearly based off of Persona 5’s and Sakurai is a huge fan of the series as a whole so I’d say there’s a chance.

 

[Flyboy]

So, how you guys feeling about Joker's (or any ATLUS rep honestly) chances as DLC?

I'm not sure. If DLC was planned around the project plan, he might not have been in the conversation. I can only hope but we may not be good until the hypothetical second wave.

 

[amageish]

So, how you guys feeling about Joker's (or any ATLUS rep honestly) chances as DLC?

To be honest? Not great.

I've seen conflicting reports about when DLC began being planned, but if it was still in 2015, then obviously Joker doesn't stand much of a chance and I don't know if any ATLUS character would either - ATLUS may have been on the mind because of the upcoming release of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, but that game flopped hard.

The UI definitely seems to be inspired by Persona 5 and even the concept of Spirits Mode seems to have echoes of the concept of Persona (figures who help you fight by enabling special powers), but I don't think if that really matters in terms of representation... And while Sakurai was very complimentary of Persona 5, he admitted he struggled to find the time to play it - while he did somehow find the time to play other long games like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and timesinks like Stardew Valley.

Personally, my hope was that we'd have some NPC representation of ATLUS in the base game, but I think it may only be coming in the form of TMS#FE spirits, as they've shown off a lot of spirits and I doubt they'd hide it if they had some from a large-ish third-party series like Megami Tensei.

That said, what do you think Ultrashroomz?

 

[Sigran101]

So, how you guys feeling about Joker's (or any ATLUS rep honestly) chances as DLC?

I think there's a decent chance. Only point against him is timing, but I'm sure there's at least some leeway on that for dlc. There's honestly a lot of good points in his favor though.

 

[Luigifan18]

Hey guys, new tweets from Sakurai came in.

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So, who are the lucky contestants? We'll just have to wait and see...

 

[Flyboy]

This feels like good news, which is insane to me. They will want Persona Q 2 to sell. Now's the perfect time.

 

[Sigran101]

Hey guys, new tweets from Sakurai came in.

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So, who are the lucky contestants? We'll just have to wait and see...

I feel like this bodes very well for Joker. I don't recall many other speculated third parties having upcoming Nintendo exclusive titles.

 

[Ultrashroomz]

That said, what do you think Ultrashroomz?

Kinda glad I waited to respond, now that Sakurai posted that tweet recently lol

Yea, idk, since Nintendo themselves chose the last 5 characters, my hopes for Joker dropped significantly.

The only third party characters I think Nintendo would care about are Banjo and Geno, and without the benefit of Sakurai's bias, I don't really see it happening now. :/

 

[Sigran101]

Kinda glad I waited to respond, now that Sakurai posted that tweet recently lol

Yea, idk, since Nintendo themselves chose the last 5 characters, my hopes for Joker dropped significantly.

The only third party characters I think Nintendo would care about are Banjo and Geno, and without the benefit of Sakurai's bias, I don't really see it happening now. :/

I feel the opposite. I don't see why Nintendo would care about Banjo and Geno who will likely never have a new game on a Nintendo console, while Joker is starring in a Nintendo exclusive game coming out next year. Him being in Smash would definitely help sell Q2, especially since most hardcore Nintendo fans probably have no exposure to the character.

 

[amageish]

Kinda glad I waited to respond, now that Sakurai posted that tweet recently lol

Yea, idk, since Nintendo themselves chose the last 5 characters, my hopes for Joker dropped significantly.

The only third party characters I think Nintendo would care about are Banjo and Geno, and without the benefit of Sakurai's bias, I don't really see it happening now. :/

Good decision to wait haha.

I'm kind of splitting the difference between you and Sigran101. I dunno if Banjo/Geno would matter to Nintendo (maybe the latter just due to fan demand), but I think there are plenty of third parties who do. Heck, there are quite a few third party games Nintendo has been publishing/localizing and/or giving exclusive Nintendo content for, so I think characters like the Rabbids, Jibanyan, and an Octopath Traveler character have definitely had a boost in likelihood.

In terms of ATLUS though, I dunno. ATLUS is a company with a lot of close ties to Nintendo, but all of their actually sucessful games have been for Sony consoles - the mainline Persona franchise, Catherine, Nocturne... I could see Nintendo picking an ATLUS character for marketing purposes, but I doubt it would be advertising a 3DS game in 2019. If anything, I'd expect it to tie into SMTV (or, if we want maximum pipe-dream, then a port of Nocturne or Persona 3/4/5 for Switch).

 

[Sigran101]

Good decision to wait haha.

I'm kind of splitting the difference between you and Sigran101. I dunno if Banjo/Geno would matter to Nintendo (maybe the latter just due to fan demand), but I think there are plenty of third parties who do. Heck, there are quite a few third party games Nintendo has been publishing/localizing and/or giving exclusive Nintendo content for, so I think characters like the Rabbids, Jibanyan, and an Octopath Traveler character have definitely had a boost in likelihood.

In terms of ATLUS though, I dunno. ATLUS is a company with a lot of close ties to Nintendo, but all of their actually sucessful games have been for Sony consoles - the mainline Persona franchise, Catherine, Nocturne... I could see Nintendo picking an ATLUS character for marketing purposes, but I doubt it would be advertising a 3DS game in 2019. If anything, I'd expect it to tie into SMTV (or, if we want maximum pipe-dream, then a port of Nocturne or Persona 3/4/5 for Switch).

The reason I think Joker would be the Atlus rep is because he's pretty much their flagship character right now. It seems like every third party is represented by their biggest main series, so since Atlus isn't represented yet Joker makes more sense than an SMT character that hasn't come out yet. It's not all about who the third party company is pushing, but considering PQ2 and the Persona and Fire Emblem crossover, I think it makes more sense to just go with Joker.

 

[Velvet Rebirth]

Regarding the new knowledge that Nintendo has decided the characters for DLC instead of Sakurai, I don't really think the likely hood of Joker has changed at all, if anything it may probably be even higher than it was. I think a big thing that might hold Sakurai back from adding Joker is just that he doesn't really hold any presence in video game history. Every third party thus far (With the exception of Bayonetta) are very iconic and hold a lot of history. Nintendo however I don't think has much interest in adding characters based on their history, they're a business, and right now with Persona Q2 coming out and possibly Persona 5 on Nintendo Switch (Which really needs to happen please), they have fair incentive to include him.

However, there is something that interests me regarding Sakurai's wording in his tweet, to me it sounds as though Nintendo gave Sakurai a selection of characters to pick from, to which he then picked which ones he's interested in including. If this is the case I think Joker's chances have skyrocketed, if Nintendo included him in their selection I'm positive he's one of the characters Sakurai picked.

 

[Sigran101]

Regarding the new knowledge that Nintendo has decided the characters for DLC instead of Sakurai, I don't really think the likely hood of Joker has changed at all, if anything it may probably be even higher than it was. I think a big thing that might hold Sakurai back from adding Joker is just that he doesn't really hold any presence in video game history. Every third party thus far (With the exception of Bayonetta) are very iconic and hold a lot of history. Nintendo however I don't think has much interest in adding characters based on their history, they're a business, and right now with Persona Q2 coming out and possibly Persona 5 on Nintendo Switch (Which really needs to happen please), they have fair incentive to include him.

However, there is something that interests me regarding Sakurai's wording in his tweet, to me it sounds as though Nintendo gave Sakurai a selection of characters to pick from, to which he then picked which ones he's interested in including. If this is the case I think Joker's chances have skyrocketed, if Nintendo included him in their selection I'm positive he's one of the characters Sakurai picked.

I completely agree. He's nowhere close to a lock, but his chances are much higher than they were. I think he's gone from "Kind of a Longshot" to "Completely possible" maybe even "somewhat likely".

 

[amageish]

The reason I think Joker would be the Atlus rep is because he's pretty much their flagship character right now. It seems like every third party is represented by their biggest main series, so since Atlus isn't represented yet Joker makes more sense than an SMT character that hasn't come out yet. It's not all about who the third party company is pushing, but considering PQ2 and the Persona and Fire Emblem crossover, I think it makes more sense to just go with Joker.

I mean, Jack Frost is still their mascot (as much as I'd rather he be part of a moveset and not on his own personally). And true, Cloud was chosen over a FF character from a Nintendo-exclusive title. I don't think TMS#FE is evidence in favour of Persona either - its offically a crossover with mainline SMT, even if you have "performa" in it. You make decent points overall though!

 

[Sigran101]

I mean, Jack Frost is still their mascot (as much as I'd rather he be part of a moveset and not on his own personally). And true, Cloud was chosen over a FF character from a Nintendo-exclusive title. I don't think TMS#FE is evidence in favour of Persona either - its offically a crossover with mainline SMT, even if you have "performa" in it. You make decent points overall though!

Thanks! I do understand your points too. Jack Frost is the mascot, but not really their flagship character if you know what I mean. He's the character who's face is slapped on everything while Joker is the character who they're pushing in games. They'd choose Joker over Jack Frost because of that. And While TMS#FE doesn't explicitly say persona, it plays just like a persona game. I've always considered it diet persona.

 

[amageish]

Thanks! I do understand your points too. Jack Frost is the mascot, but not really their flagship character if you know what I mean. He's the character who's face is slapped on everything while Joker is the character who they're pushing in games. They'd choose Joker over Jack Frost because of that. And While TMS#FE doesn't explicitly say persona, it plays just like a persona game. I've always considered it diet persona.

True on both fronts. Jack Frost is more the icon while Joker is the actual important defined character. As for TMS#FE, personally I see it more as proof that the line between SMT and Persona is maybe less defined that some believe (though I'd consider the fact that SMT if... is canon-ish to P1/P2, which means its indirectly canon to P3/4/5 to be better evidence of that personally).

 

[Black Link521]

I am all for the chances of Joker's inclusion being increased by the recent news. Sakurai taking a good amount of inspiration from Persona 5 is neat on it's own. But Tsubasa as a spirit just makes it feel a bit sweeter for what it's worth. I also like the idea of Atlus trying to shove Persona 5 into almost everything, and what better way to do so then to go for the biggest crossover in gaming.

 

[Sigran101]

Before we knew trophies we're gone, I always thought it was fun to imagine Persona 5 trophies sending the rating through the roof. "Kamoshida is a physically abusive gym teacher at Shujin Academy. When he ***** a girl, the Phantom Thieves decide to take him down" "Kawakami is a mild mannered Japanese class teacher. She works as a maid who specializes is sexual favors, but when she meets her student Joker, they might just strike up a romance."

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Yo guys! Figured I'd join the support for Joker of Persona fame! Could be quite excellent if his inclusion were to signal Persona ports to the Switch!

 

[Sigran101]

True on both fronts. Jack Frost is more the icon while Joker is the actual important defined character. As for TMS#FE, personally I see it more as proof that the line between SMT and Persona is maybe less defined that some believe (though I'd consider the fact that SMT if... is canon-ish to P1/P2, which means its indirectly canon to P3/4/5 to be better evidence of that personally).

I do agree on that point about TMS#FE. And considering how big Persona has made it, I think it would make some degree of sense for Joker to represent the series. I think it would be even better representation if we got Jack Frost as an assist trophy alongside Joker.

Yo guys! Figured I'd join the support for Joker of Persona fame! Could be quite excellent if his inclusion were to signal Persona ports to the Switch!

Welcome aboard! Always good to have more supporters!

 

[amageish]

I am all for the chances of Joker's inclusion being increased by the recent news. Sakurai taking a good amount of inspiration from Persona 5 is neat on it's own. But Tsubasa as a spirit just makes it feel a bit sweeter for what it's worth. I also like the idea of Atlus trying to shove Persona 5 into almost everything, and what better way to do so then to go for the biggest crossover in gaming.

Yeah, I'm glad Tsubasa is a spirit - and given the apparently-large amount of spirits we're getting, I wouldn't be too shocked if some more of the TMS#FE cast turned up.

Yo guys! Figured I'd join the support for Joker of Persona fame! Could be quite excellent if his inclusion were to signal Persona ports to the Switch!

Welcome aboard! It's always nice to have more people aboard - bonds of the people is the true power and all that.

I do agree on that point about TMS#FE. And considering how big Persona has made it, I think it would make some degree of sense for Joker to represent the series. I think it would be even better representation if we got Jack Frost as an assist trophy alongside Joker.

I'm still in favour of Frost being part of a moveset, but an AT would work as well. I do wonder if they'd add in ATs, spirits, and such alongside the new characters when/if they're from new IPs...

ALSO, in case anyone missed it and also cares, there are English-language demos of the upcoming dancing games on the PSN! So, if you want to try those, then you can!

 

[Sigran101]

Yeah, I'm glad Tsubasa is a spirit - and given the apparently-large amount of spirits we're getting, I wouldn't be too shocked if some more of the TMS#FE cast turned up.



Welcome aboard! It's always nice to have more people aboard - bonds of the people is the true power and all that.



I'm still in favour of Frost being part of a moveset, but an AT would work as well. I do wonder if they'd add in ATs, spirits, and such alongside the new characters when/if they're from new IPs...

ALSO, in case anyone missed it and also cares, there are English-language demos of the upcoming dancing games on the PSN! So, if you want to try those, then you can!

How did you imagine Jack Frost in a moveset? Like if it was Joker, would Frost be his main persona or would there be some kind of persona switching mechanic?

 

[amageish]

How did you imagine Jack Frost in a moveset? Like if it was Joker, would Frost be his main persona or would there be some kind of persona switching mechanic?

You can go over to the general SMT thread for a lot more examples, but my general thoughts would be a persona-switching mechanic a la Robin's tombs. As while I agree that Arsene is the most iconic of Joker's personae, it's much more authentic to both the game and Joker's powers to have him use the Wild Card to do a variety of elemental attacks, not just be stuck to the one gentleman thief. It would also make Persona in Smash function very different from Persona in ArcSys fighting games, which is nice from a variety PoV.

 

[Robertman2]

I doubt he's in Season 1, but season 2 is more likely