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Data Hero-King's Council: Video Analysis

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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40 minutes and 13 matches of Marth vs. Roy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUc9sNb90I. Different players, so don't critique them all as 2 players and it's a glimpse of what the Marth and Roy MU looks like.
Thanks for posting this but I don't think it says much about the MU (I'd be saying the same thing if the Marths won most of them). This gameplay is low-mid level of competitive at best and that is where Roy shines being the Captain Falcon of sword characters. I saw almost no edgeguarding, no juggling, and no urgency to get Roy off-stage. Where was Utilt? Marth's Utilt is relatively lagless now and it's extremely important that he uses/spams it against Roy. Things like Utilt > rising Uair > falling Uair > Utilt > repeat/whatever else is brutal vs Roy.

1000TH POST WOOOOOOOOOOOOTTT!!!!!!
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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Thanks for posting this but I don't think it says much about the MU (I'd be saying the same thing if the Marths won most of them). This gameplay is low-mid level of competitive at best and that is where Roy shines being the Captain Falcon of sword characters. I saw almost no edgeguarding, no juggling, and no urgency to get Roy off-stage. Where was Utilt? Marth's Utilt is relatively lagless now and it's extremely important that he uses/spams it against Roy. Things like Utilt > rising Uair > falling Uair > Utilt > repeat/whatever else is brutal vs Roy.

1000TH POST WOOOOOOOOOOOOTTT!!!!!!
Well, I said it was a glimpse and Roy hasn't been out for much. There was that one Marth who was really spazzy - the dude who was attacking thin air and was really twitchy. It was funny to watch because at that point, the Roy just stopped everything, watched, and then punished appropriately... Er... that should be Marth's job. :p
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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Well, I said it was a glimpse and Roy hasn't been out for much. There was that one Marth who was really spazzy - the dude who was attacking thin air and was really twitchy. It was funny to watch because at that point, the Roy just stopped everything, watched, and then punished appropriately... Er... that should be Marth's job. :p
Yeah it was hilarious looking at all of these different play-styles all at once. You mean the one who kept doing SH DB1 to double jump DB1 to B reverse SBer (which was a failed B reverse half the time)? Yeah face-palm to that kind of flashiness.
 
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Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
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It wasn't flashy; it was a spaz attack, like, the ghost of the dead Jigglypuffs were haunting him and only he could see them... I'm just going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was nervous because these matches are being uploaded. On another side note: really dislike how practically everyone uses the dark alts for every character. I'd like some variety, thank you very much.

Another note, really getting annoyed by players who attack when opponents are nowhere near them. Not during neutral, but say, and I think this happened in one of the matches, a player recovers and makes it to the other side, you do not freaking Up Smash the platform opposite to that player. How in the world are they going to make it there? It doesn't help when Marth's - I think it was a Marth - Up Smash doesn't have that much active frames compared to Roy who can pretty much trap you like Zelda and Mewtwo. Marth would have to hit you on reaction like Sheik and Greninja... well, if Greninja's Up Smash actually worked properly with platforms. Delayed reactions are hilarious too. Opponent's clearly below the platform and one second later, Up Smash...

Y'know, anti-airing with Marth's Side Smash might be a better option... I've been messing with Falco's Side Smash and using it to anti-air and it works only if you hit first since it's a frame 17 Side Smash. Why does it work? It's transcendent, Falco moves forward, and it arcs over him. Marth's does the same thing except it's not transcendent and Ike's would work too if it wasn't so damn slow. I guess people don't do it often because aside from safety issues, you'd associate Side Smashes with hitting forward and Up Smashes with hitting upwards. It's true, but with a thin, vertical Up Smash, Marth would need to be directly under to anti-air when most air approaches are going to be coming from the sides. In some cases, moves don't "correlate" with their directions like how Ryu's Down Smash only hits in front like ZSS's or how Fox's Up Smash is usually used in front of him and rarely to hit above him.

Yeah, don't have much to say about the video and players themselves since I don't know much about Marth, Lucina, or Roy, hence, why I'm using Marth.
 
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Mister Eric

Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
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I thought they were the same person? :V
Oops I'm a newb, lol.

Mr.E's name is Eric too right? #_#
Haha it's confusing! Sorry! xD

I came around in 2008 with the tag "Mister Eric". I'm the ROB.
"Mr. Eric" from NY came around a couple years later in Brawl and he mained Marth. Nowadays he goes by Mr. E.

I get called Mr. E ALL the time lol. So I try to make people spell my name out and everything to try and help avoid confusion.
 

kj22

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Soooo I had some sexy Marth vs Lucina matches last night San Antonio weekly here vs FunCrazyFish, another top 10 player here in SA. Finally got to try out a new setup I've just theory crafted but never implemented (super vague hint: only did it once, something you've probably never seen)

What's even more interesting is that we switched from marth/Lucina to the other after every set ;p

@Shaya lmao the whole time @Nike. was taunting me saying he's going to upload these and tag you, so I'm beating him to the punch.

Ah just checked and there was no stream, but I'll edit/post again when they're up!



EDIT! : LoS2W15 | LF | FunCrazyFish vs KJ
 
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ZRoyal

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Soooo I had some sexy Marth vs Lucina matches last night San Antonio weekly here vs FunCrazyFish, another top 10 player here in SA. Finally got to try out a new setup I've just theory crafted but never implemented (super vague hint: only did it once, something you've probably never seen)

What's even more interesting is that we switched from marth/Lucina to the other after every set ;p

@Shaya lmao the whole time @Nike. was taunting me saying he's going to upload these and tag you, so I'm beating him to the punch.

Ah just checked and there was no stream, but I'll edit/post again when they're up!



EDIT! : LoS2W15 | LF | FunCrazyFish vs KJ
Really nice matches to watch. The rotation between characters was a cool thing to do too. :p

Was the setup around the 19:03 min mark? If it was, that is super slick haha
 
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kj22

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Really nice matches to watch. The rotation between characters was a cool thing to do too. :p

Was the setup around the 19:03 min mark? If it was, that is super slick haha
Thanks, yeah we're friends, so we didn't mind doing that ;p

hahaha yessss you nailed it!
 

RisingVexx

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After a shieldbreak, you can use Slow Run to drag people with you and position yourself a bit better in order to hopefully get the kill.


To do this you just initiate a Run and then slide the stick forward and down and hold it like that to keep running.

:GCR:->:GCDR:

This also work with knocked down opponents, you can drag them with you and if they get up attack you can shield and stay on the side you were before. Be careful because sometimes both hits of the get up attack will hit you and those do a lot of shield damage.

If I find more utility for it I'll let you guys know.
 

Deviruki

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Never thought of this, definitely going to try this out.
 

Gunblade789

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Hey guys. Its me Gunblade. If you dont know me I am one of Smash's national level commentators. I also have been playing Marth since forever. I Main Marth, DDD, and Ganon in smash 4. Here are just some random videos of me playing. I live in a pretty tough region, NY/NJ with many many top players so tournaments are rough. haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShHhB5DR-_E Gunblade :4marth:vs Angel Cortes :4diddy: (I lost this set 2-0 but whatever. lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w96_Y-u_Gqg Gunblade :4marth: vs HBA Shippo :4sheik: (Shippo is a good NJ Sheik main)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPSQKg8oXIo Gunblade :4marth:vs Superboi :4mario: (first game 2nd stock is beautiful)


Hope ya enjoy!!!
 

HFlash

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After a shieldbreak, you can use Slow Run to drag people with you and position yourself a bit better in order to hopefully get the kill.


To do this you just initiate a Run and then slide the stick forward and down and hold it like that to keep running.

:GCR:->:GCDR:

This also work with knocked down opponents, you can drag them with you and if they get up attack you can shield and stay on the side you were before. Be careful because sometimes both hits of the get up attack will hit you and those do a lot of shield damage.

If I find more utility for it I'll let you guys know.

This seems pretty neat, but at least in the case in the video (you are on the opposite side of the stage that you want) can't you just jump over them :p ? If you do need to just push them off a bit to the left or right side of the stage, this is a great trick.

Edit: I got visibly upset when I saw GunBlade dthrow shiek (a fast faller) @ 0% (3:59, second video) and was unable to get the uair just because Marth had rage..... Marth needs the DK/Robin treatment, and he'd be perfect (or close enough).
 
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ToTs

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Hey guys. Its me Gunblade. If you dont know me I am one of Smash's national level commentators. I also have been playing Marth since forever. I Main Marth, DDD, and Ganon in smash 4. Here are just some random videos of me playing. I live in a pretty tough region, NY/NJ with many many top players so tournaments are rough. haha.
I wish I lived in a harsh region lol. That first set was awesome, where do these tournies stream on twitch?
 

Gunblade789

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This seems pretty neat, but at least in the case in the video (you are on the opposite side of the stage that you want) can't you just jump over them :p ? If you do need to just push them off a bit to the left or right side of the stage, this is a great trick.

Edit: I got visibly upset when I saw GunBlade dthrow shiek (a fast faller) @ 0% (3:59, second video) and was unable to get the uair just because Marth had rage..... Marth needs the DK/Robin treatment, and he'd be perfect (or close enough).
it doesnt matter too much to me because I can still set up a landing trap so its still a good situation.

I wish I lived in a harsh region lol. That first set was awesome, where do these tournies stream on twitch?
Twitch.tv/hitboxarena
twitch.tv/rushhoursmash
 
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Ryu Myuutsu

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Nice about that slow run, I didn't even knew that was possible.

I wish I lived in a harsh region lol. That first set was awesome, where do these tournies stream on twitch?
I've heard that the Saharan desert and the Antarctic continent are pretty harsh places to live in, have you considered moving there?
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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@ Gunblade789 Gunblade789

Nice shield break. I was screaming with the commentators when you messed up the turn-around B. I don't know if Angel was mashing but good thing you were still able to get the kill.

Also, like the commentators were saying a little more Jab would be nice. There are times in a match where throwing out jab is literally the best option. More use of Nair in the neutral would be good. It's pretty safe and can be a combo starter. Actually these two tie together, other than Nair 1 to Jab, Nairing on a shield is the perfect opportunity to throw out Jab 1 because many people will drop shield after the Nair.
 

Zaabrey

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I've never fought a Fox McCloud who played this aggressively... I had just recently starting playing Marth competitively now instead of casually with friends and For Fun Free For all.

I guess him losing two games in the row already took his toll.^^; He's an okay guy. No disrespect and we exchanged some GG's. Still, he definitely was trying to prove something to me.

Yes, I was nervous and sloppy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7SPvgYuY6s

As always, constructive criticism is welcomed. <3 I noticed that I keep up with Marth a lot better than Link. If I can play him more fluently, I might make him my primary main instead...
 
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Saki-

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https://youtu.be/4lWss6CLSbQ?t=1h30m39s

vs Reflex

Pretty much what I'm seeing is finding a way to deal with pressure, stop throwing aerials (whiffing hurts so much more the higher in play I go) and stop standing still. Command grabs hurt me so much due to how locked down I get when I'm being ran over.
 

FallenHero

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Soooo I had some sexy Marth vs Lucina matches last night San Antonio weekly here vs FunCrazyFish, another top 10 player here in SA. Finally got to try out a new setup I've just theory crafted but never implemented (super vague hint: only did it once, something you've probably never seen)

What's even more interesting is that we switched from marth/Lucina to the other after every set ;p

@Shaya lmao the whole time @Nike. was taunting me saying he's going to upload these and tag you, so I'm beating him to the punch.

Ah just checked and there was no stream, but I'll edit/post again when they're up!



EDIT! : LoS2W15 | LF | FunCrazyFish vs KJ
That set was so good. I love how many shields were broken and how disrespectful you were. Have you ever gotten to play against Mr. E? I think you might be the best Marth player out of all of us here in the Marth boards, but just wait until I rise to the top ;)
 

kj22

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That set was so good. I love how many shields were broken and how disrespectful you were. Have you ever gotten to play against Mr. E? I think you might be the best Marth player out of all of us here in the Marth boards, but just wait until I rise to the top ;)
lmao thanks, and no not in this game, we played in brawl on wifi a bit and we went even. And keep at it man, (perfect) practice makes perfect ;)
 

Vipermoon

King Marth's most trusted advisor.
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https://youtu.be/4lWss6CLSbQ?t=1h30m39s

vs Reflex

Pretty much what I'm seeing is finding a way to deal with pressure, stop throwing aerials (whiffing hurts so much more the higher in play I go) and stop standing still. Command grabs hurt me so much due to how locked down I get when I'm being ran over.
So apparently this was customs. You had grab release combos on Wario with Crescent Slash.
 

kj22

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https://youtu.be/4lWss6CLSbQ?t=1h30m39s

vs Reflex

Pretty much what I'm seeing is finding a way to deal with pressure, stop throwing aerials (whiffing hurts so much more the higher in play I go) and stop standing still. Command grabs hurt me so much due to how locked down I get when I'm being ran over.
looked like you needed to react faster to things honestly, and work on your walling game, he was getting in for free way to often, and approaching your zone whenever he felt like it. Pivot ftilts, dash away bairs, sh airdodge upairs are all ways to make him respect approaching you from the air. Also try walking more in neutral, got hit by more bikes then you needed to (granted it is speedy bike)
Game 2 you did much better, found your footing and starting stuffing his approaches and walling him out, good stuff! Watch when you're getting juggled though, as it looked at times that you just ate hits when getting juggled instead of trying to avoid them/mixing up how you were going to reset to neutral.
 

kj22

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Hey guys. Its me Gunblade. If you dont know me I am one of Smash's national level commentators. I also have been playing Marth since forever. I Main Marth, DDD, and Ganon in smash 4. Here are just some random videos of me playing. I live in a pretty tough region, NY/NJ with many many top players so tournaments are rough. haha.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShHhB5DR-_E Gunblade :4marth:vs Angel Cortes :4diddy: (I lost this set 2-0 but whatever. lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w96_Y-u_Gqg Gunblade :4marth: vs HBA Shippo :4sheik: (Shippo is a good NJ Sheik main)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPSQKg8oXIo Gunblade :4marth:vs Superboi :4mario: (first game 2nd stock is beautiful)


Hope ya enjoy!!!
vs angel you played how I would've played versus him, I think that mu horrible for marth but regardless you did great. I'd replace some of your sh fairs with full hop fairs to make them a little more safer, and be a bit more aggressive offstage. Try challenging diddy's side b from below or above, and not head on. More empty hops into grabs as he was pretty conditioned to shield the moment you took flight. Also try not to whiff to many moves in midrange versus diddy because as I'm sure you already know thats his burst range where either a dash grab/dash fair, banana throw can come out, in that range have fluid movement (but don't commit to anything) and just bait imo.
As regards to jab, yes it is good and yes you should use it more post-patch, but honestly I find it whiffing versus short characters/crouching characters ALOT, so if use it make sure you're not right right next to them.

vs shippo....lmfao

vs superboi
the first 20 seconds were classic brawl marth haha, nice stutterstep to take his first stock though (fsmashing people jumping is such a beautiful feeling)
Saw a lot of opportunities for jab 1 here, especially to replace some of the dtilts you do when he's jumping at you, and also a good option when you're in that awkward "don't want to throw out any moves because I'm to close and I have lag I'm marth" situations like from 4:42-4:50. It's really great when someone's landing in front of you because of how its hits plus its low lag, so basically it frametraps landings for you. Another good set!(:


Imagine how god-tier marth would be if his whole blade was a tipper?
 

Gunblade789

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vs angel you played how I would've played versus him, I think that mu horrible for marth but regardless you did great. I'd replace some of your sh fairs with full hop fairs to make them a little more safer, and be a bit more aggressive offstage. Try challenging diddy's side b from below or above, and not head on. More empty hops into grabs as he was pretty conditioned to shield the moment you took flight. Also try not to whiff to many moves in midrange versus diddy because as I'm sure you already know thats his burst range where either a dash grab/dash fair, banana throw can come out, in that range have fluid movement (but don't commit to anything) and just bait imo.
As regards to jab, yes it is good and yes you should use it more post-patch, but honestly I find it whiffing versus short characters/crouching characters ALOT, so if use it make sure you're not right right next to them.

vs shippo....lmfao

vs superboi
the first 20 seconds were classic brawl marth haha, nice stutterstep to take his first stock though (fsmashing people jumping is such a beautiful feeling)
Saw a lot of opportunities for jab 1 here, especially to replace some of the dtilts you do when he's jumping at you, and also a good option when you're in that awkward "don't want to throw out any moves because I'm to close and I have lag I'm marth" situations like from 4:42-4:50. It's really great when someone's landing in front of you because of how its hits plus its low lag, so basically it frametraps landings for you. Another good set!(:


Imagine how god-tier marth would be if his whole blade was a tipper?
Big time shoutouts to you!!! thanks for the input. this is how it should be ALL THE TIME!!!!
 

H-O-G

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Y
Big time shoutouts to you!!! thanks for the input. this is how it should be ALL THE TIME!!!!
yo gunblade I would like 2 spar with u some time let me kno wats up
 

H-O-G

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Soooo I had some sexy Marth vs Lucina matches last night San Antonio weekly here vs FunCrazyFish, another top 10 player here in SA. Finally got to try out a new setup I've just theory crafted but never implemented (super vague hint: only did it once, something you've probably never seen)

What's even more interesting is that we switched from marth/Lucina to the other after every set ;p

@Shaya lmao the whole time @Nike. was taunting me saying he's going to upload these and tag you, so I'm beating him to the punch.

Ah just checked and there was no stream, but I'll edit/post again when they're up!



EDIT! : LoS2W15 | LF | FunCrazyFish vs KJ
I actually watched ur vids and one wen u fought meta knight. 2 b honest u play really solid and constantly mix up ur approaches and dat is great gameplay the only thing I saw u do wrong was get grab way 2 much from metaknight other than that u played well in ur marth/Lucy dittos and the metaknight fight. My bad the metaknight fight was ur friend my bad for the mistake but yall play fairly similar btw and the one thing u do different that is noticeable from him is sh airdodge into ariels. Sh airdodge is such a great approach for marth/Lucy
 
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Saki-

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So apparently this was customs. You had grab release combos on Wario with Crescent Slash.
: ( I don't practice/use customs nor do I plan to until it's a for sure thing they'll stay around.

looked like you needed to react faster to things honestly, and work on your walling game, he was getting in for free way to often, and approaching your zone whenever he felt like it. Pivot ftilts, dash away bairs, sh airdodge upairs are all ways to make him respect approaching you from the air. Also try walking more in neutral, got hit by more bikes then you needed to (granted it is speedy bike)
Game 2 you did much better, found your footing and starting stuffing his approaches and walling him out, good stuff! Watch when you're getting juggled though, as it looked at times that you just ate hits when getting juggled instead of trying to avoid them/mixing up how you were going to reset to neutral.
Thanks

Agreed, with reaction time I'm Just hoping it comes with more experience. I'm a wi-fi dooder so these locals have been so much quicker than anything I've ever done haha. Super terrible on anti aggression when people have that large skill gap over me, and it's been a little hw assignement for me since then. He was all over me, and I just took most of it...and the command grab omg ;-;.

I do push walking, I feel it helped me a lot through losers in that bracket (shoutouts to pivot fsmashes being tool of choice for trying to take stocks off me) but that speedy bike and my reaction time just do not get along.....at all.

Yeah I'll work on landing, probably go for edges too instead of stage, even though that can be a hassle on it's own.
 

CURRY

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edit: I regret making this post.
I'll be uploading videos for critique when I feel like it...
 
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