HermitHelmet Comes Through With Some Useful Mii Fighter Tech

[The Derrit]

The Mii Fighters haven't gotten a lot of time in the spotlight. Given their exclusion in For Glory and some early tournaments, some seem happy to put them in an early grave. After seeing some great Mii Fighter advanced techniques, however, hopefully players will give these unique fighters some more attention.

Shotput-Shuffling allows the Mii Brawler to retain some aerial momentum out of his neutral B shotput attack.
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YouTube user HermitHelmet has made a few videos regarding the Mii Fighters containing advanced techniques for the Mii Brawler and Gunner. These techniques create some really exciting movement options for both characters - check them out!

Mii Brawler: Shotput-Shuffling

Mii Gunner: Advanced Techniques
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Even as some of the competitive community appears to be content leaving the Mii Fighters behind, it is refreshing to see someone put so much time into the characters. HermitHelmet has also made a video defending these characters' tournament legality. If these characters are important to you, follow his lead and speak up! The community deserves to hear your voice.

The Derrit thinks that custom specials and Mii Fighters should be tournament legal, and that 'it will take too long to set up' is a pretty petty excuse when your tournament is already running until 4:30 in the morning. Engage him on Twitter at @TheDerrit.

 

[MM720]

I don't see why the default Brawlers, Swordfighters and Gunners shouldn't be legal. They're just as diverse and unique as most of the other cast.

Custom moves is something different. If the tournament allows custom moves for other fighters then there's no reason Mii fighters can't. If Custom moves are turned off for the others though, then Mii fighters should only be allowed to use the default moveset IMO....

Every TO just needs to make any 3 Miis with any sort of gear and press "save". Sure they're not allowed in Smash 4 online but that's only because of the offensive names and faces you can give them.

 

[Gardex]

Even as some of the competitive community appears to be content leaving the Mii Fighters behind

Who jumps to conclusions like this one? Most people allow Miis(as they should. Whatever stupid reason there is to ban them can easily be countered).

Also, it's not wavebouncing, it's a b-reversal. Wavebouncing is the act of combining b-reversals and turnaround-b.
(Check out V115's nice guide about them here)

Nice videos tho

 

[Jigglymaster]

I've been hard at work getting these guys legal for a while now. For time restraints complaints, I've made this video.

As for custom moves, Mii Fighters are different. They are completely different moves, they can be used from the start, and they can be used with customization turned OFF. I feel like at the very least if you're going to let mii fighters be available you should allow them to use all their alternate specials. Perhaps a way to make a simple agreement on that is by forcing them to use one of these 3 loadouts.
1111
2222
3333

That way you give the game a couple extra fighters, and you'd see a huge amount of viability in the 2222 loadout, even though its not the perfect loadout for the character still.

 

[LeadRod]

Exactly, these are not overpowered characters people. They are just not allowed on FG because somebody out there has named himself "Penis Mike". In fact, people using Mii Fighters will be at a disadvantage due to the fact they aren't allowed in For Glory and can't use it for training against non-CPUs!

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

I think custom moves should be legal with Palutena and Miis. All their moves are unlocked from the beginning and people are hating on Palutena because of her "campy" playstyle. If they don't like her default moves, then allow customs. I don't think it takes that long to make a character with customs. People can do it within less than a minute.

I feel people would complain that the other characters don't get to use customs while Palutena & Miis can.

 

[Crazc]

I think they should only be allowed if they have the default weight and default height. The effects of the different weights and heights are very noticeable, and game-changing for someone who has never fought, for example, a minimum weight and height mii gunner, which makes the mii much faster, but weaker. Sure, the opponent should be able to adapt to the new play-style, but the initial rush of a different speed and strength and weight could potentially cost the opponent a stock or two, just because they had never fought that before. With a set tournament rule of only being able to use a Mii with the default weight and height, this would eliminate that problem, but still keeps the Mii's tourny viable.

However, I believe that the Miis should be allowed to use whichever combination of specials they want. This is not an unlockable, its not a custom move (even if you turn custom moves off, you can still use a mii with a different Specials contamination), so it should be legal. If the opponent does not know how to fight this move, that is their own fault. It is much easier to practice against a mii with different specials than it is to practice against a mii with different weight classes because it is much easier to change the specials than it is to create a new mii (getting it on the dead middle is hard af, bro), then making a new mii fighter even if you do get it in the dead middle, you still need to create a new mii fighter because once the game saves the fighter, you cannot edit it besides the moves and clothing and customs.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

One more thing. I feel that if Miis get too "random", then we can set some restrictions to make them tournament viable / legal. I hate restrictions, but I hate cutting out entire characters more.

 

[Gidy]

And still no love for the Mii Sword fighter

QQ

 

[Rage NF]

I also think that the Miis fighter shouldn't be ban I really don't see the reason of why and I really have no idea of why people is against them of using the Miis in the tourney.

any problem that the Miis had we can counters in time like little mac and other characters really absolutely nothing is impossible to do or accomplish.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

The mii issue is hugely confusing because of a variety of factors, including:

1) height and weight differences - are they negligible or crucial?
2) their custom moves being completely different from every other character, including palutena because they can exist even with customs turned off

I would argue that the miis are certainly not op. To ban them as characters is pointless, but to force them to use 1111 movesets and even to force them to be at a certain height and weight really betrays what their characters are all about, which is nintendo's version of "create-a-fighter".

But to reduce chaos, there needs to be some sort of regulation. This applies both to miis and customs if they are allowed. Because the smash metagame has never seen such diversity before, I'm thinking we oughta look at the examples of other games for clarification, and probably the best would be pokemon. They do have uber tier characters and banned moves, but probably the thing that keeps it the most fair is that everyone is limited to the same amount of pokemon and moves on their team. If we had a rule at tournaments saying, "if you use a mii, you can only use one and you declare their stats at the start of the tournament", or something like that, then you won't have the issue of someone constantly switching characters to mess with people's heads as was suggested in another thread. Food for thought?

 

[HermitHelmet]

Thanks for featuring my video! Trying to work on this for Swordfighter, but it's damn near impossible to find things useful for the poor guy! Be sure to follow me on Twitter and subscribe on YouTube for more updates!

 

[HermitHelmet]

Also, it's not wavebouncing, it's a b-reversal. Wavebouncing is the act of combining b-reversals and turnaround-b.
(Check out V115's nice guide about them here)

Nice videos tho

Pretty sure I did Wavebounce in the Brawler video, on Kongo Jungle iirc

 

[SuaveChaser]

I don't think miis should be legal.

 

[Zurreal]

I don't think miis should be legal.

Well, I certainly can't argue with your objective and logical arguments so I might as well concede.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

And still no love for the Mii Sword fighter

QQ

Swordfighter needs some buffs it just seems to me like Sakurai's team took the worst aspects of Link and Marth to make the Mii Swordsman they seem really weak like worst character weak.

 

[Gardex]

Pretty sure I did Wavebounce in the Brawler video, on Kongo Jungle iirc

You did, but you didn't all the other times, so it would just cause confusion in the future if people thought wavebouncing was a simple b-reversal. It's not a big deal, obviously, but it's nice to have terms sorted out, especially in a tutorial.

 

[Aguki90]

I would allowed Mii tourments.

ESPECIALLY WITH ZERO EQUIPMENTS.

With equiptment is too strong or weak, so Zero gear is better.

 

[T0MMY]

Not sure why there wasn't a link to this thread: Competitive Principles: Mii
There's a wealth of info there.
To summarize (regarding the poll of the news post of Mii usage) from the rather staunch rationale of Competitive Principles thread:

Competitive Philosophy states a player should use the software to it's fullest potential which mostly regards character use.

No character should reasonably be banned/limited unless specific criteria are met: Warranted, Discrete, and enforceable.

Therefore in a tournament event using Customization: Off the Mii should be utilized to their fullest potential as the game has greater authority than any TO, attendee, competitor, or spectator (reductio : competitive princples).

In an event that uses Customization: On there appears to be no debate regarding the use of Mii characters.

Until the specific ban/limit criteria is reasonably met any ban/limit enforced on the Mii fighters (or any character) will result in an out-of-game ruling which violates competitive principles and categorizes the event as "casual" - anti-competitive and just "for fun".

 

[SmashShadow]

-They need to to have default height and weight.
-No equipment.
-Either custom moves need to be turned off or only allow them them use of their 3 sets of specials but no intertwining.

And if the latter is legal than Palutena's should be legal as well because of they are all very different as well.

 

[SuaveChaser]

Well, I certainly can't argue with your objective and logical arguments so I might as well concede.

I'm not allowed to dislike miis okay cool thanks.

 

[Jigglymaster]

-They need to to have default height and weight.
-No equipment.
-Either custom moves need to be turned off or only allow them them use of their 3 sets of specials but no intertwining.

And if the latter is legal than Palutena's should be legal as well because of they are all very different as well.

All of these are possible by using the Guest Mii. It will always be default height/weight, with customization turned off there cannot be any sort of equipment, they can use their specials without having customization on. But if people see that as unfair we can limit their choices to 1111, 2222, and 3333. This could create sub classes like
Mii Brawler A
Mii Brawler B
Mii Brawler C

ect

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

I'm not allowed to dislike miis okay cool thanks.

There's a difference between "I don't like Miis" and "miis should be banned". My liking miis on the other side does not warrant not banning them if there really is an issue. I just don't think there's an issue.

I will say, however, that I didn't have any less fun at Xanadu last Tuesday even though miis were banned. Gotta stay flexible

 

[Aurane]

I'm just gonna be straight up on this; I don't get what the hoopla about these Miis is about. Just regulate their moveset to 1111 and keep their weight/height to a default stat. Moreover, I'd like to enforce they are mechanically the same as any other character- they get two optional customs for their specials. If customs are banned, force them to use 1111, like everyone else.

I'm not seeing an issue with that. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but honestly.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I'm just gonna be straight up on this; I don't get what the hoopla about these Miis is about. Just regulate their moveset to 1111 and keep their weight/height to a default stat. Moreover, I'd like to enforce they are mechanically the same as any other character- they get two optional customs for their specials. If customs are banned, force them to use 1111, like everyone else.

I'm not seeing an issue with that. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but honestly.

The main point is, is that banning the mii fighter's alternate special moves is what the problem is. Unlike other characters their alt specials are
-completely different moves
-available from the start
-can be played with customization OFF

Forcing them to their 1111 set is wrong and they should be allowed to use any combination of their moves. At the very least, make them either use 1111, 2222, or 3333 so that all their special moves can be used in some way. It's taking away what the character is by limiting them to this. That is the main problem, not their legality in general.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I really don't see why Miis should be banned in tourneys, especially sonce Diddy is currently the closest thingh to a character ban IMO (I'm not saying we should ban Diddy, though).

 

[Da Loc]

I voted to ban them in the polls.

Imagine a best out of 3 series and a mii player loses game 1. "Oh, you use character X, I'm making a new character slightly faster and heavier than yours and will change from 1111 to 3333."

I would like a mii only triples tournament (1 of each) any customs as that is entirely different meta.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I voted to ban them in the polls.

Imagine a best out of 3 series and a mii player loses game 1. "Oh, you use character X, I'm making a new character slightly faster and heavier than yours and will change from 1111 to 3333."

I would like a mii only triples tournament (1 of each) any customs as that is entirely different meta.

If custom specials are the only thing you have against Mii Fighters, then I can assume two other things:

1. You want to ban Palutena too, since she also works excatly that way.
2. You probably haven't thought of the possibility of only using the Mii's 1111 moveset in tournaments.

 

[Da Loc]

1. I was going with customs off. So default palutena is fine.
2. No I did think of it, but just going with "preferred rules" as stated by the 20 other people above my post.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

1. I was going with customs off. So default palutena is fine.
2. No I did think of it, but just going with "preferred rules" as stated by the 20 other people above my post.

still not a reason to vote against Miis in tournaments.

 

[taolem]

I think Miis should be allowed, but with default moves.

 

[fromundaman]

The only real issue I have with Miis is that "One Inch Punch" thing. That looks ridiculously broken, but that's more an arguement against them using alternate specials. If you leave them on default/1111 they should be fine BUT we do need a standardized height/weight to make it work (Do the WiiU guest Miis all have the same stats? I don't own a WiiU so can't say).



On a side note someone said we should look at what other games do then pointed to Pokemon.
This is a bad example. If you want to look at what other games do with "Create-a-fighters", then Soul Calibur is probably the closest thing since the user generated characters use the movesets of existing characters BUT they are banned due to the height/weight changing hitboxes/hurtboxes.

 

[proxibomb]

The only thing people should regulate in terms of Mii Fighters is their height and weight. When making a Mii for people to use at tournaments, all three Miis have to have the default height and weight that is given when you first create a Mii. Everything else is okay with me.

 

[Engage]

Engage him on Twitter at @TheDerrit.

EEEE it's my name!

 

[Chilex]

I comain Mario and Mii Brawler. Please allow them, even if it means restricting them to a reasonable extent.

 

[Omegascizor456]

even though i havent played enough of the miis as i would want to! I still would LOVE to see them allow these in tournements

 

[~Burst~]

I think custom moves should be legal with Palutena and Miis. All their moves are unlocked from the beginning and people are hating on Palutena because of her "campy" playstyle. If they don't like her default moves, then allow customs. I don't think it takes that long to make a character with customs. People can do it within less than a minute.

I feel people would complain that the other characters don't get to use customs while Palutena & Miis can.

Thats the exact reason.
Why should palutena get more options when other characters don't?
Megaman has customs that are different and aren't just adjustments but because they need to be unlocked I'm not allowed to use them and palutena players can? No. Wait until all of them are allowed or don't use the character.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Miis have a lot of potential: the only reason they not available online are the offensive Miis that certain immature people (I actually used to be one of them)

They still have unique gameplay and now, they even have some techniques. They seem viable.

Default moveset only though, because the One-Inch Punch is ridiculous

 

[Wasp]

I wouldn't like them to be honest... They're fun offline, but i don't wanna fight hitler and michael jackson and peter griffin etc. Also, their movesets are too variable.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They're fun offline, but i don't wanna fight hitler and michael jackson and peter griffin etc.

TOs can make generic Miis for it, y'know.

Also, their movesets are too variable.

Because they have 12 different specials? We can set it so they only get their 1st special is the only one considered legal.