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A1lion835

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
2,844
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Lurking the Kirby Social thread with my rock buds.
Like Fromundaman (I hope this doesn't offend him), I'm a Kirby player who's good at seeing what other people are doing wrong, but can't seem to correct various problems in his own gameplay. I've been hanging around a clan for a little more than a month, and everyone there beats me. I can accept clan members beating me, as I haven't gotten in, but there were people who agreed with me that we were about equal a few weeks ago who now surpass me. I've brawled Asdioh and he's given me some advice, but on the whole I don't seem to be going anywhere. I don't have a camera, but as is fairly obvious, I do have wifi.

Can anyone offer a few suggestions (aside from switching my main, especially to MK)? I'm open to brawling anyone online.
 

T-nuts

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
520
Location
Georgia
1) dont switch your main. ever.

2) i could play you sometime.

3) use bair out of shield. probably my most helpful tip. seems like a lot of kirbies dont do this for some reason. i have no idea if you do or not, though.

EDIT: 4) I lol'd at your location
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
2,844
Location
Lurking the Kirby Social thread with my rock buds.
1) dont switch your main. ever.

2) i could play you sometime.

3) use bair out of shield. probably my most helpful tip. seems like a lot of kirbies dont do this for some reason. i have no idea if you do or not, though.

EDIT: 4) I lol'd at your location
1. I know. Just wanted to make sure those ******* who say "just use MK" didn't post here.
2. Sure. PM me when you want to.
3. I try to.
4.Thanks.

If we do brawl, don't tell me that I don't use the gonzo combo enough. My controllers bugged enough so it's extremely hard to do a reverse utilt. Same goes for me not cancelling rock early enough, just sitting on the ground while in it, or using inhale whenever I cancel it offstage.
 

T-nuts

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
520
Location
Georgia
If we do brawl, don't tell me that I don't use the gonzo combo enough. My controllers bugged enough so it's extremely hard to do a reverse utilt. Same goes for me not cancelling rock early enough, just sitting on the ground while in it, or using inhale whenever I cancel it offstage.
yeah lag causes all that **** too.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
6,416
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Miamisburg, OH
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Fromundaman
3DS FC
2105-9186-1496
Like Fromundaman (I hope this doesn't offend him), I'm a Kirby player who's good at seeing what other people are doing wrong, but can't seem to correct various problems in his own gameplay.
ZOMG WTF ASSHAT! I WILL POOP ON YOUR MOTHER'S FRENCH POODLE WHILE STRADDLING A PENGUIN!

Hehe, j/k.

Yeah, kind of hard to say what to correct without actually seeing you play, and I would be likely to just give you the advice that reflects what I need, so my current advice is to play someone who can record your match, and having them post that to be rated.

Generally speaking though, don't go into the match thinking you HAVE to use preset combos, as sometimes, if you're anything like me, you will try to make something work when it really shouldn't be used, and the more it fails, the more you want to do it because god****it, you CAN do it, despite the fact you kind of shouldn't (Case in point, watch those mario vs ROB matches I had up. See how I fail to cape those projectiles which leads to me using WAY too much cape.). Basically, if your opponent pays special attention not to let you get grabs in, mess him up with something else.
Also, be especially careful to apply what you are told needs improvement by people you play. If you brush it off (which I doubt you would), it's pointless.

1) dont switch your main. ever.
I disagree. Don't switch your main unless it becomes boring/tedious to play.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Miamisburg, OH
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Very nice article/blog/thing Rapid! Definitely worth reading.

Backing away won't help that poodle much, and nothing's ever going to help that penguin.
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
2,844
Location
Lurking the Kirby Social thread with my rock buds.
Need help again... should I just stop using Kirby? I used to use TL and Pit, should I just replace Kirby with them? I keep losing, it's not about predictability or the habits discussed in that AiB thread. I didn't use tilts a while ago, I've started using them much more and I seem to lose even more now. It's not that I'm going through that stage where you go back a little and then go forward; no matter what I do, I just seem to do worse against my opponents. My Kirby got so shaken earlier today I couldn't even play smash... I don't know if I can handle this happening again and again to me.

I'm serious. If you say to just switch to meta knight (which someone undoubtedly will), I will ****ing kill you. No joke.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
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Miamisburg, OH
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Why is everyone either "HOLY **** MK!" or "**** MK!". He's just a good character...

M advice is still to play who you enjoy. You will have good and bad days. For example, my first tourny was made up of some of the worse matches I've played in quite a while, so yeah, it happens.
I'd say keep playing those two as well, and make one or two a main then the other(s) as secondaries.
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,200
Location
OH
A1Lion, just take a break for a few days at least. Play a different game or read a book or something. It really helps.

Also, Kirby sucks on wifi. Well, he doesn't suck except for when he uses Inhale but he doesn't really have any benefits from wifi, like some characters do.

Don't be surprised if you lose with Kirby a lot...I do...in fact, I have yet to see someone on the allisbrawl ladder go 100% Kirby and have a really good record. The really good records are mostly reserved for Snakes/MKs.
 

Mr_Orion

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
120
Location
Houston
It would be a vast shame losing the ruff'n'tuff pink puff in your life.
A life without Kirby is a sad one.
The sun only seems to rise just to set. There is no beauty.

FACT: the suicide rate in other countries goes up 800% when someone quits playing Kirby.
FACT: Somewhere in the universe, there is a real Kirby, and because you are thinking of quitting, he lost his job, wife, and kids and is now staring down the barrel of a shotgun.
FACT: Everyone who does not play Kirby thinks about killing themselves at least 10 times a day.
FACT: Kirby tears up other Brawl characters because they have lost their will to live, knowing they will never be as cool as Kirby and Kirby players.

Hang in there, A1lion835. Your Kirby will come around if you keep up training. XD
 

Vulcan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
102
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NYC
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SaberVulcan
While you may not take me seriously since you ripped my videos apart, heh, I will say that playing kirby in Wifi is absolutely frustrating. I cannot stand online play, I played for quite a while last summer online and I could not stand it, and I was bad enough back then.

If online play is the only type of playing you can get, then I am not sure what to tell you. Personally, I wouldnt keep using Kirby in online play, I went through all of my characters during online play to see who I could play the easiest, and I found Pikachu to be rather easy online. I am not telling you to swap to Pikachu, just that he was the character I got the most success online with.
 

SmileyStation

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
362
Location
South Texas
Kirby is frustrating online. Hes prolly one of the hardest characters to use in lag next to mario. Thats just the way it goes. Practice makes perfect.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
Joined
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Miamisburg, OH
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Fromundaman
3DS FC
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Also, I would suggest not ONLY playing one character (That seems to be what you were telling me?). Despite what you may think, playing numerous characters will help you get better at Kirby, as well as giving you secondaries and keeping you from burning out on your main. However, while it will help you in the sense that some strategies can be transfered over from one character to the next, try not to pick up bad habits from secondaries (Like you know, using Utilt on Ganon... That seems to be my #1 adjustment problem between the characters I play...).

Anyway, I'll try to play you tomorrow if I have internet access, and I'll also try to get some matches recorded if I can find my Dad's camera so that you can get a little critique on your actual gameplay (that is, assuming you want a video recorded).
 

A1lion835

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
2,844
Location
Lurking the Kirby Social thread with my rock buds.
Also, I would suggest not ONLY playing one character (That seems to be what you were telling me?). Despite what you may think, playing numerous characters will help you get better at Kirby, as well as giving you secondaries and keeping you from burning out on your main. However, while it will help you in the sense that some strategies can be transfered over from one character to the next, try not to pick up bad habits from secondaries (Like you know, using Utilt on Ganon... That seems to be my #1 adjustment problem between the characters I play...).

Anyway, I'll try to play you tomorrow if I have internet access, and I'll also try to get some matches recorded if I can find my Dad's camera so that you can get a little critique on your actual gameplay (that is, assuming you want a video recorded).
I guess I'll get my secondaries back in action... gonna take a bit of remembering though. I only dropped them so I'd have more time to work on my Kirby.

[sarcasm]Hm. Matches? Recorded? Why would I want that? It's not like I want to get better or anything.[/sarcasm]
 

T-nuts

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
520
Location
Georgia
Also, I would suggest not ONLY playing one character (That seems to be what you were telling me?). Despite what you may think, playing numerous characters will help you get better at Kirby
so, so true.

Anyway, here is a guide to the things that helped me improve. It's lengthy, as a forewarning, but I believe it to be useful.

1) FIGURE OUT EXACTLY HOW TO USE A MOVE.

Learn your moves like the back of your hand: range, knockback, etc. know in what situations a move will work. Keep in mind, also, this may vary slightly from offline to online. Overall, this step is the easy part.

2) NOW THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO USE A MOVE, KNOW WHEN TO USE A MOVE.

This is the hard part, and this is the part where playing with other characters helps. Its tricky because the situations in which you can use moves with a character can overlap. For example, when someone is in front of you in the air with kirby, youve got options. should I use hammer? fair? nair? cutters up swing? inhale? airdodge? you get the idea: youve got choices. The battle here is learning when to make which choice.

How does playing as other characters help you improve as kirby? It helps with the basics, because you have to incorporate a similar move into a new moveset, giving you new ways to use it that you may carry back to kirby. Lots of moves in this game, though different in characteristics, have the same basic purpose. for example, look at kirby's utilt. When do most characters use their utilt? when they need a quick move, usually after a spot dodge, usually as a punisher, that can hit both sides. Also, it is usually done at lower percents so it can combo. Once you know that, you apply it to kirby, and...hey! kirby's utilt works perfectly that way! same can be said for kirby's down tilt, and other moves throughout this game.

Aside from helping you learn similar moves, you can better learn how often to roll dodge, spot dodge, airdodge, etc by playing as other characters. Think you spot dodge too much? play as someone else for a little while, and practice it with him. Eventually you will reach a good balance.

Watching and PLAYING good players also helps in this step, quite a lot. You will notice which of your habits work well and which dont, and therefore which you may need to change. Also, notice which of THEIR habits work well.

3) BREAK HABITS THAT PREVENT YOU FROM USING A MOVE WELL.

Example: Now that you know using utilt to punish your opponent after you have spotdodged their move is better than using dsmash, you need to get your mind to stop instinctively telling you to use dsmash, and start instictively telling you to use utilt. If youve been playing as kirby for a while, some of these habits are probably pretty solidly ingrained.

To teach yourself a habit, there are 2 things that I used to try that simply DO NOT work. First of all, dont try to get yourself into a habit by doing it against computers. computers are dumb and will present you with wrong situations for moves. Also, dont just go into a competitive match, and start trying to incorporate your move. You need the speed of instinct in competition, so you will either lose trying to incorporate the move, or you will do as well as always without incorporating it.

So how did I break my habits?

By accident.

All you have to do, is take a break from playing the game. A week should suffice. But, keep thinking about the game a little bit.

This works because you lose the mechanical habits that come from repeated play and keep mental ideas that you should be able to apply IMMEDIATELY next time you play. I dont care how dumb this may sound to you, it works.

About 5 months ago, I was on summer vacation in florida with my family, and had no wii. When I returned...I was suddenly extremely proficient at spotdodging the NEXT time I played, out of nowhere. I didnt make the connection at first. But during a stressful week of school this year, when I had no time to play, I still thought about how I needed to break my dsmash habit and start using utilt, and still watched my roommates play a little. When I finally played again, I was doing it. Effortlessly. At this point, I realized the breaks from playing were breaking my habits.

I saw nynjalink write in here the other day, that he only plays this game like once a week, and no one could believe it. Well, believe it, because time off can help you improve if you have a sound mindset about this game.

Sorry this was so long guys, but this is basically my guide to improvement, and it made me the player I am today. Maybe I should post this some other places too.
 

fromundaman

Henshin a go-go Baby!
Joined
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T-nuts, I agree with absolutely everything you said.

Also, A1, I only put that last part in because some people hate being recorded when they think they're playing badly. Anyway, send me a message when you feel like playing and I'll go set up my wii/look for a camera (granted, I should be doing that now, but I'm busy FINALLY having a decent internet connection :D ).
 

Mr_Orion

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
120
Location
Houston
I have to give props to T-nuts and his in-depth help. Way to go man. All good stuff.
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,200
Location
OH
Also, dont just go into a competitive match, and start trying to incorporate your move. You need the speed of instinct in competition, so you will either lose trying to incorporate the move, or you will do as well as always without incorporating it.
I agree with your whole post (great post) and this part, but I think you forgot something. If you go into friendlies and FORCE yourself to get used to using a certain move, that's a great way to get used to it without risking anything. I think that's how I learned to use uptilt: I kept hearing what a great move it was, and I realized that I neverrrr used it. So I forced myself to use it at least a couple times per match. Thinking back, I could have pushed even harder to get used to it. It really does work: you just have to put conscious effort into it.

When I had some Kirby dittos with Bunny the other day, I noticed lots of spot dodge-> up tilt battles taking place, it was pretty funny. It came down to who got luckier/had a better positioning for landing the uptilt XD

And like T-nuts and I both said: taking breaks helps.

Now I need to apply this to myself...my worst habit now is that I still rolldodge into my opponent. Not as much as I used to, but more than a couple times per game is still WAY too much. It might be because I'm used to playing people that don't punish it, or it might be because of my N64 experience where rolldodging was better (right? >_> dumb computers)

Anyway, I'm going to force myself to think about approaching in different ways other than rolldodging into my opponent. Ask me how that goes so I can make sure I make progress XD
 

T-nuts

Smash Ace
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
520
Location
Georgia
When I had some Kirby dittos with Bunny the other day, I noticed lots of spot dodge-> up tilt battles taking place, it was pretty funny. It came down to who got luckier/had a better positioning for landing the uptilt XD
sounds like some crazy ditto action haha

Yeah, I didnt mean to insinuate that taking a break from the game is the only way to break habits, as Asdioh pointed out there are definitely other ways.
 
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