Help Rich win MLG Dallas thread

[RichBrown]

I'm decent against MK

I'm ok against Snake

I'll **** pikachu

but wtf how do I fight Falco Diddy and ZSS

Go watch my videos, give me general advice, I'm open to any advice you guys have. I've always felt that there's at least one thing that can be learned from every player, so I value EVERYONE's advice.

Some vids:

Diddy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NqzHqRLs-g (the quality sucks but PLEASE help me with this)

Falco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKOeyDF3N4A

**** yeah: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrj1ZgtHWjY

The Falco one is a little outdated but please please please share with me anything you know, as well as any other vids I should watch or little tricks yall have

please please please please help me, and avoid mentioning players by name so they don't name search and come in here and learn all the tricks, thanks

oh and idk how i am against marth it depends on my mood that day and if I remember everything

I keep forgetting to pivot grab, when should I pivot grab, like in general

 

[Greward]

i also have problems with falco and diddy, theyre extremely difficult to face with olimar. ill soon get some vids of myself playing diddy, they may help but as i said, this matchup is horrible if the diddy knows to play it (if he doesnt know the matchup we **** lol) and im probly not good with it.
falco... uh, i think u play better ones than myself (well diddy too lol). all i can say is that olimar should never approach in this matchup, we have to camp and punish falco when we read his approaches.
ZSS have never given me any problems, but i have played only a few, so i dunno. dont try to pivot grab her when she's approaching because she usually beats it. throw a lot of fsmashes because theyll beat most of her approaches. try to zone a lot and pressure her to the ledge because thats what ZSS will try to do with side B and when she has us next to the ledge shell go aggro and without space we have no good options against ZSS. in addittion ZSS is easy to juggle so i use usmash a lot and i usually kill her with a fair offstage or throws. i just play semiagresive and try to zone better than her, we are both very weak when pressured to the ledge.
that's how i try to play against ZSS, i dont play that matchup a lot but it may help. ive only got one vid against charby up and its pretty old (ok i said his nickname but he's french so i dont think ull play him XD)

 

[ADHD]

You have beautiful hair.

 

[overgamer]

You have beautiful hair.

Spotted

 

[Slain Avenger]

Falco is never gonna be an easy MU, unless you fight a falco who knows nothing about going up against an Olimar. I suggest baiting aerial approaches and pivot grabbing most of them. It's what works against me on occasion. Also, you've said it yourself, most stuff clashes against Falco's attacks except yellows. I'm guessing OoS yellow u-smash can stop most of his approaches. When he Jab locks you though... I really don't know, that seems to be your biggest problem based on the vid :/

 

[Zori]

Spam forward smash

 

[Cook]

Yeah, against the Falco you were just getting outspaced, imo. He wanted to be up close to you, in jab/grab range, when what you want is to keep him a little farther away than that. You were doing moves a lot of times when you should have just been retreating a bit. When he's jab-locking you in the air I think you want to SDI up and back and f-air him. If he's doing it to you near the ledge, don't be afraid of SDI-ing off the stage. You should be safe if you still have your jump; just make sure you don't jump too early or he will hit you out of it, like in your first stock (jump when you are far enough below the stage that up-air will cover your descent and you will go about even with the ledge, but so that you are high enough to up-b onto the stage if they try to edgehog... I don't think I explained that very well, but hopefully you get it, lol.

Also, that particular Falco really likes to mix up his recovery by up-bing above the stage sometimes (he did it once in the vid, and I see him do it all the time). He rarely gets punished for it because his opponent doesn't expect it and so they aren't in a position to punish it. But obviously it's very punishable, so just don't commit to something while he is still above the stage.


As for Diddy, I just have a few random notes. Good Diddys will approach with >B a lot. If it's the kick then you can usually pivot grab it. If it's the face hump then you can f-air it. You need to pivot grab the kick more.

Most Diddys spot dodge a lot, so expect it. Like, when they land and you try to grab their landing, they're gonna spot dodge (or maybe roll). If you try to grab you're gonna miss and get hit. So, expect the spot dodge and then punish it rather than trying to punish the landing itself. Also, knowing that someone likes to spotdodge might make you think that they'll be easy to bait into spotdodging for n-air>upsmash. If the Diddy knows the matchup, though, he knows never to spotdodge while you're in the air (I guess that applies to about every character vs. Olimar). He'll just hold his shield up until you've actually done an attack, and then he'll punish you unless you spaced it really well. Not that you really did this, just sayin'. But, if you can space your f-air just outside his grab range you can bait a lot of missed grabs. Same thing applies to landing right behind his shield with n-air.

In general, though, you need to run away more against Diddy, too, lol. Don't go aggro against Diddy.

Go for f-airs when you get him offstage, he is susceptible to them. If he recovers low with barrels, hang from your tether and retract it when he releases. This is more practical than it sounds.

Diddy on the edge loves to edge hop>air dodge. Just wait for the air dodge and upsmash (or whatever move).



I might have a little more later.

 

[Dnyce]

If only there was no LGL at Dallas, I would tell you to plank diddy / time him out cuz it works =/ I'll watch the vids and critique tomorrow ;o

 

[Mikachiru]

Since I know nothing about Oli's match ups and stuff, all I can do is offer you my best wishes.

Good luck~~. <3

 

[Cook]

If only there was no LGL at Dallas, I would tell you to plank diddy / time him out cuz it works =/ I'll watch the vids and critique tomorrow ;o

Didn't you try to do that to Nicole and lost the set? She doesn't even main Diddy.

No need to try timing Diddy out, but you do want to camp really hard.

 

[Dnyce]

Didn't you try to do that to Nicole and lost the set? She doesn't even main Diddy.

No need to try timing Diddy out, but you do want to camp really hard.

I was still working the strategy back then, but you're completely right. One situation determines everything. lol

 

[ToferTheHuman]

The only thing I can help on is Marth, what his game is for Oli is pushing him to the edge of the stage and waiting for him to roll to get out the that tight spot. Purple pikmin really mess up his game, since he has to charge at you.

 

[Dnyce]

I couldn't stand watching the diddy match, so I skipped to Falco

At the beginning I'm seeing you make a lot of challenges to Falco up-close. Normally I would say that being aggressive isn't bad.... as a mix-up in this MU. You took aggressive options maybe 80% of the time when landing and it made you really predictable.
I hate to be obvious, but losing your first stock could've been avoided by using your double jump and uair'ing, I looked real close to see if it got stolen from you, but I couldn't tell. imo, when you're just barely knocked off like that going for some form of uair is good since you're safe and people LOVE to get to their comfortable spot for ledge guarding (which is usually punishable with a quick uair).

For some reason... you've abandoned all thought of retreating and camping I've noticed. Like, holy **** rich... settle down a bit, lmao. Your challenging Falco a LOT... and you're not getting rewarded for doing so, so idk why you doing it unless you feel like you have to catch-up. But on your second stock you're at 46% and he's at 16% - that's hardly a lead.

OMG, YOU STARTED PLAYING SAFE/RETREATING AND THROWING PIKMIN... AND STARTING RACKING MORE DAMAGE ON TO HIM THAN HE'S DOING TO YOU. It only took ghosting a whole line of Pikmin, but as soon as you started playing on the defensive he kept going in thinking you were going to challenge him, so it's somewhat bias advice... however you can't argue that it worked ;o

But yeah... nothing else to say until the end... where you challenged Falco at close range again, took the aggressive option (it was over when you fair'd and landed on the ground instead of retreating fair and going to the ledge... c'mon you know better .-.), and lost because of it =/

I'll watch m2k in a bit... gotta pack n ****. Hope I helped... you don't really need to worry about m2k anyway ;o lol

 

[RichBrown]

Super helpful advice, keep it coming guys :D

Are there any really good baits you guys use? I figured out just yesterday when my opponent is coming close to landing, jumping at them then pivotgrabbing is pretty ****. Anything else like that?

 

[Cook]

You may already do these things, but:

Well, short hopping right by your opponent is usually gonna make them shield, so if you just land right outside of their grab range then they often try to grab, so you get a free punish. I think this works better with an empty shorthop, but f-airing the shied and landing outside of grab range can work, too. In my experience this is especially good against Diddy (if he isn't holding a banana), but you may have to land INSIDE his grab range a couple times so that he is conditioned to grab (usually they are already conditioned to grab, though). Similarly, n-airing and land JUST behind him will often make him whiff a grab, but doing that is less safe.

When you d-throw people, dashing forward often makes your opponent DI backwards or do a move to stop you from grabbing them again or whatever, so dash forward>run backward>pivot grab works for me a lot. Idk if I made this very clear, lol.

People tend to think Olimar has lag after short hop up-b, so... short hop up-b, then surprise them, lol.



A couple other things about Diddy:

Don't throw two pikmin when you short hop as this makes it easier to get hit by a banana. Throwing one, then air dodging (pretend you're Toon Link, lol) is usually better, imo. Also, try to catch and pick up bananas by air dodging most of the time because it is usually the safest way (and DO try to catch bananas because it helps A LOT). However, if you think you know he's gonna throw a banana, then f-air can catch the banana and hit Diddy (same thing can work a lot on Peach with her turnips); this works a lot when Diddy is close to you because he usually expects the banana to keep him safe from you. If you get a banana, don't just throw it right back. Save it to punish spot dodges, rolls, and air dodges; you still have pikmin toss while you hold a banana, so use that and be evasive until the Diddy messes up. Oh, and if Diddy b-airs your shield once, don't drop your shield because he can b-air again before landing. If he tries to gimp you with nannerz then whistle them if he is near, then whistle whatever move he tries to do right after the banana hits you, or z catch the nanner if Diddy isn't near you.

 

[PSI.kick]

Dude, ill watch those when i have some time and help with what i can.
But yeah for baiting? i like to (well.... super obvious and you probably do this all the time already) Purple toss and they'll dodge it somehow, so you can punish it with a fsmash running usmash or grab or whatever.

Anyway, lookin forward to watchin those matches soon, don't have time atm.

wait, when is mlg dallas over? i'll try to watch those by tomorrow

 

[Ussi]

To fight Sonic all you do is dtilt

 

[Dnyce]

To fight Sonic all you do is forward smash

*fixed for ignorance*

 

[Tin Man]

good luck to Rich Brown & Logic =]

 

[Cook]

To fight Sonic all you do is dtilt

*fixed for ignorance*

No...

D-tilt is laggy and Sonic can just come at you, stop, then punish the d-tilt you threw out there to stop his approach.

F-smash doesn't even go through his spinny stuff.

 

[Dnyce]

No...

D-tilt is laggy and Sonic can just come at you, stop, then punish the d-tilt you threw out there to stop his approach.

F-smash doesn't even go through his spinny stuff.

It does if the stage isn't Yoshi's island or Pictochat.