Help approaching fox and dealing with his speed

[Genuine]

Hi

Well I have been playing marth for a long time but I have just started playing other people who use advanced techs. My friends tell me i have marths technical aspects down but I just need player vs player experience. Anyway my friend has a really good fox and I can't deal with his speed. Hell I can't even approach it.

Some advice could be helpful.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5doVU88zkzE

This is a video against my friends fox. He told me he was just holding back. He said he was just practicing the infinite drill shine. I really don't need you to critique my marth because I have certainly improved since then. I know that I over shielded, rolled too much, and camped; but I have improved

thanks for the help

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You are probably approaching way too fast..try to use retreating f-airs when he moves on the offensive..just don't jump when approaching fox unless you have a good reason, marth is in deep trouble when fox is below him..if you do jump, stick very close to the ground unless comboing.

Chaingrab him to gain stocks quickly..best thing to learn against fox.

 

[Genuine]

Thats some very helpful advice seeing as i usually approach fox with a nair or fair. I also need to not panic when chain grabbing.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Slowly close the gap with dash dancing if hes relatively close..fast dash dancing leads into everything and is very effective.

 

[Shai Hulud]

You don't need to approach Fox. You have a sword. He has no range. The end.

 

[SOPF]

A lot of Foxes (the one's I verse anyway) seemed to hate Marth's grab range. Use that to your advantage. Chain grab and combo off those grabs, also, you shouldn't approach a Fox so hastily. Dash dance and screw him over with mind games to the point where your in control because Marth is a serious control freak of a character.

 

[dark_dragon8]

First from what I see, stop throwing out random forward smashes. They do not help and you will be punished once you miss them. I see a lot of random blind attacks too which do not hit and seem like you are always trying to predict something. Prediction is good, but reaction to what a player does is important as well.

Notice how your friend's Fox is very inaccurate with his attacks? He missed so many nairs, you could have just stood there and he would have landed behind you and you could have got a hit in. I agree bluedeath too, chain grabbing Fox on FD is a very strong thing for Marth, practise that a bit more. Also follow through on his moves more and take control. Also standing there and shielding while a Fox approached you is not the best idea, try dodging away, dashing away, interrupting it with a move, etc.

I hope this helps.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

shai...that was a stupid post

Fox has a laser, if thats not range, I don't know what is.

 

[FrostByte]

That fox was playing way too agressively, always going in for the attack.You could've grabbed him from a wd back or dash dance most of the time. Also note that when fox is below the stage when recovering, he should never get back. Counter/jab if he is coming above the stage, drop down and fair/bair for the kill.

 

[goateeguy]

You don't need to approach Fox. You have a sword. He has no range. The end.

exactly what i was goin to say lol

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol@ Shai and goateeguy.

Marth needs to approach Fox. Fox has a blaster gun. Marth doesn't. The end.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Thanks for restating what I said emblem lord...it seems everone ignored my post.

 

[AS Money]

did anyone get the joke about the infinite drill shine on marth on FD lol

that made my day

 

[FrostByte]

Best John ever.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

It bothers me people said fox didn't have any range and ignored my post..it bothers me alot considering the marth boards are in the smarter end of boards..or so I thought.

 

[SOPF]

Thebluedeath, congrats on the newly aquired smashlord status and you're right. Although it is a weak projectile as far as knockback goes, Fox's blaster has range and does damage so Marth does have to approach just don't rapid spam attacks like an idiot though.

 

[Shai Hulud]

shai...that was a stupid post

Fox has a laser, if thats not range, I don't know what is.

It was ****ing hyperbole.

OMG Fox has a laser? My point is that he can't get kills with his laser. Fox MUST approach Marth much more than you must approach Fox. If you're on FD or PS and Fox keeps running away lasering, then catch him when he lands with a dash attack, dtilt, grab, any of a number of attacks.

 

[SOPF]

Shai, that isn't true. If a Marth were to just wait for a Fox's approach then the Fox could just blast at said Marth until he has reached sufficient damage and then go in for the killing strike. Marth must approach more than Fox period.

 

[Genuine]

The hardest thing for me against my friend is approaching his fox. Oh and btw my friend tells me usually doesnt approach as much as he did in the vid. He says usually against a skilled marth he just stays back and usually grabs or waveshine into grabs. Anyway now when I fight him usually just sits back and waits for me to mis space a shffl and either waves shine into grab or just grabs. If I approach with a dash he usually shield grabs me. The grab is my best option but if my miss the grab he usually punishes me for that. MY edge gaurding has improved since the video and Ill try to get a new video of me vs him later.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shai: I play a Foxes that will literally run to the corner of the stage and shoot until a decide to appraoch them.

Marth HAS to approach. Which isn't a bad thing at all. IMO the one who approaches has more control over the match.

 

[SOPF]

You have so many against you now Shai. Just conceed defeat.

 

[Virgilijus]

With Foxes (through my experience) it is always best to approach until you get to tipper distance and then stay there. If you short hop Double F-airs and put pressure on their shields (while being out of their shield grab range), they typically become flustered; good foxes know what a good Marth can do to them if they get the right hit or grab in. Also, pull out a forward tilt every once in a while. It has very good range and if you space a tipper it can push them even farther towards the edge.

Needless to say, if you get them scared by spacing your sword well enough, they will begin to shield quite a bit. If you can then fake them out, grab then chain grab and/or punish with up tilts.

 

[BishopTS]

Can't we all just get along

 

[Genuine]

BishopTS : No stfu lol j/k

Ya i really dont want this to be a thread about who knows how fox plays(all foxes have different playing styles), but I will be sure to use all the advice that you have given me.

BTW does anyone know how to avoid a nair to a shine spike. This really ***** me at lower %s.

 

[Terrorking91]

When he Uthrows you, and you see him jumping, and you KNOW he is going to Uair you.... COUNTER!!!!! <_<

Lol


When a fox is recovering and he is useing his Firefox (and you dont think you will be able to hit him and kill him) use the counter to stop his firefox and if he is in range of your attack then F-smash him! Try and go for the tip.

Fox is the 2nd fastest faller in the game, so chain grabs are easy to get off but dont do much dmg fast. If you Uthrow fox and he DIs in front of you (and is high enough) jump and Fair and try to get a few Fairs off.

Just remember that Fox is a fast faller and you can pull some combo's off easy (Not talking anything near the Ken combo-age level at the moment, lol, but ya)

Can't really help from here...I'm a Fox playing and dont like ya beating up my own kind but I think I have helped you enough

 

[dark_dragon8]

BishopTS : No stfu lol j/k

Ya i really dont want this to be a thread about who knows how fox plays(all foxes have different playing styles), but I will be sure to use all the advice that you have given me.

BTW does anyone know how to avoid a nair to a shine spike. This really ***** me at lower %s.

Few options here:
If you know he is coming at you with a nair you can dash away and go from there
If it is a full jump nair, you can counter or if you have good reactions, up tilt
Dodge roll away
Light shield (I haven't really experimented too much with this)

I also don't really know how a nair leads to a shine spike, but try to avoid the nair as much as possible and stay away from the edge then.

 

[Genuine]

Its not really all done in one jump but whenever Im close to the edge and at a low % he shffls with a nair . Then shine spikes me. Seeing as Im at a low % the nair doesnt send me too far off the edge but close enough for him to shine spike me.

 

[goateeguy]

lol@ Shai and goateeguy.

Marth needs to approach Fox. Fox has a blaster gun. Marth doesn't. The end.

well, duh. if he's spamming, just run up, do some dashdancing, wavedash backwards then pummel him and don't let him get away. the approach is barely anything compared to the pummeling part. (i like that part )

 

[balladechina212]

I don't know how useful this is, but I found it on YouTube.
"Marth Approach Ideas"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UosGZKOqfxo

Personally, I don't think you have specific ways to approach a Fox. It all depends on your style and your opponent's style. You just have to adjust according to the opponent.

 

[Genuine]

That fair to waveland could definitely surprise some ppl but would become predictable after much use

 

[dark_dragon8]

Its not really all done in one jump but whenever Im close to the edge and at a low % he shffls with a nair . Then shine spikes me. Seeing as Im at a low % the nair doesnt send me too far off the edge but close enough for him to shine spike me.

If he is coming with a nair just dodge roll towards the stage. If you get hit off, make sure to not use your mid air jump. Also if he shffls it, jumping over him works too.

 

[goateeguy]

@ the argument w/ Shai, both sides are right, in a way. if a fox is laser spamming, the marth obviously can do nothing but come at him. the fox is not gonna keep laser spamming when a marth is coming down on top of him folks. he's gonna run away, attack, or do something else, and that's what u need strategy for.

it's not the lasering that's the problem, it's the sudden stop afterwards.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Here's how it goes.

Camping Marth>Camping Sheik, but the match is still in Sheik's favor
Camping Marth>Camping Peach
Camping Marth>Camping Falcon
Camping Marth<Camping Falcon on Final Destination
Camping Marth=Camping Falco
Camping Marth<Camping Falco on Final Destination
Camping Marth<Camping Fox ANYWHERE

Peach cannot outcamp you. Falcon can out grab camp you on FD. Your grab camping is better than Sheik's needle camping. Your grab camping is equal to falco's lasers, if you know how to deal with them correctly AND your on a platform stage. Falco's laser camping beats your grab camping on FD, but the match is still in your favor due to chaingrab/grab combos. If you try to grab camp fox, he can run away and laser camp you, unless you really know how to get your grabs in VERY well, unlike me.

 

[Omni]

Me and Husband's Fox vs. Marth matches are always really close. To get grabs with Marth, your best bet is to dash dance dangerously close to Fox's range and hope he gets scared and messes up. Also, wait for shfflc's that end with sidesteps since a lot of Fox's do that. Waiting for the sidestep is crucial.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Yeah, I realized that. I mean, there's a few way to get grabs by baiting sidesteps.

1.People always think your going to try to grab them when they land, so just wait for them to land and they'll sidestep right after.

2.Like Omni said, just dd close to them and they will sidestep.

3.If they sidestep a grab, then you sidestep they're grab immediately after, then they will instinctively sidestep again. Just wait for it then grab them.

Of course, these are all habits to exploit. This won't work on everyone, but once in a while even good players fall into these sidestep habits.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

SOPF, thanks for the congrats..

and emblem lord, thanks for backing me up

I'm surprised all this came out on such a simple fox thread.

 

[Shai Hulud]

You have so many against you now Shai. Just conceed defeat.

/is slain

Who the **** are you?

 

[SOPF]

I'm SOPF (Son Of Pure Fire), which relates to a book I'm writing so don't ask, and now I'm confused and feel like Ken comboing a Bowser computer for 99 stocks. Thank you and good night. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZ!

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Shai, be nice to the weaker members of these boards.

*Shows compassion by reviving shai*

I've delt with many foxes that just retreated while lasering till I reached a damage they wanted...usually they only manage to tag on 15% but it is very annoying and deadly.

 

[SOPF]

BlueDeath I just wanna thank you for that weaker member comment. That was a serious ego booster. (Note the sarcasm) PLease don't judge me due to my lack of posting, lack of tournament winnings, and all around lack of anything noteworthy. Aw, now I made myself depressed. I'm just gonna go curl up in the fetal position and sit in the corner now.