Help against Kirby?

[Zwarm]

Hey everyone! Well, to begin, I main the awesomeness that is R.O.B. and my roommate mains Kirby and Pikachu. I usually don't have too many problems with his Pikachu, but his Kirby is a *****.

Every time I try to approach from the air, I get shield grabbed. Every time I try to approach with D-tilt or F-tilt, he spotdodges, and I get an F-Smash to the face. The second he gets me off the ledge, he B-airs the hell out of me, either racking up a bunch of damage leading into an F-smash once I get back to the stage, or I run out of fuel, although this is rare.

When I get more defensive and camp more than usual, I laser and gyro to keep him away, but usually my laser is weak, with little knockback, and shields my gyro almost every time. I can usually shield grab his approaching B-airs, but he usually ducks under my F-tilt when he approaches, and shields my D-tilt, leading to his F-tilt. He is also really good at shield pressuring me, to the point where his D-tilt can trip me, leading to yet another F-smash. On top of all of this, he resorts to air camping when I can finally get past everything, leading me to have even more problems.

Overall, he is ridiculously annoying to me, and I have no idea what to do to stop him. I can usually get him down to one stock, but he shield pressures me to the point where he can F-smash through my shield.

tl;dr: I kinda suck against my roommate's Kirby, what can I do to improve against him?

Here's actually a pretty good representation of what happens when I play against him, when he does his combos and stuff, but there's more shield grabbing, and I usually lose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqUXRVN3r3E

 

[A2ZOMG]

Angled F-smash is truly valuable in this matchup. Use it in critical moments to win spacing wars.

Other than that, I really don't know what to consistently do against Kirby. I think this is a hard matchup, since Kirby can be very good at staying in ROB's blindspots, and he'll start outcamping you if he swallows you. ROB's camping doesn't work very well in this matchup due to Kirby's fairly good mobility and multiple jumps, and he does better gimping you than the other way around.

As for spotdodges...you have a lot of options to punish those. Work on not getting baited by those I guess, and use D-tilt, Jab, D-smash, or grab to get him out of spotdodge. Honestly, I wouldn't F-tilt much in this matchup except to punish lag, since Kirby can avoid it pretty easily.

 

[GwJ]

You're basically saying in the OP that you can't handle your friend's predictable tactics. If you friend spotdodges when you tilt, grab him. If you're used to getting shield grabbed, feint an attack and counterattack.

 

[Zwarm]

I guess I do make him sound pretty predictable, but really, when he's on his game, he switches grab combos up a lot, and usually has a different approach when I get defensive. I admit I'm not the best at countering mindgames, but he isn't THAT predictable.

I'll probably have some videos up tonight, and when they get up, I'll post the link to show how our typical matches play out.

 

[Mister Eric]

My usual reaction out of a Kirby grab is jump. Rob's DI'ing movement hovers so much that it is so easy for kirby to string some attacks in. So try jumping and get the beep out of there.

If you're getting shield grabbed, space more properly. And don't get f-smashed. Just know than if you are at kill % then the Kirby is usually spacing a f-smash.

Kirby is going to hover above/diagonally above you for the a good deal of the match. Usually you'll end up draining your shield trying to shield grab the dude and he'll just poke right in and it's very frustrating.
So don't let him get by with this. go for perfect shield or interrupt his aerial or just get outta there.

IMO, you really need to bait Kirby. Look vulnerable to him. Just don't throw out attack after attack. Make him spot dodge and punish. It sounds like you know the dude pretty well so you should have a good feel on what his habits consist of. Bait those habits and punish

one other quick note is when you're recovering from below the stage, don't come straight up in a line because kirby can easily down air you/foot stool you until you run out of gas.

^_^

typed this in a rush, hope this helps at all.

 

[Zwarm]

yea, I usually have no problems with his grab combos, because I play against him so much, I know how to get past most of his follow-ups. I'll be playing against him tonight once I get out of my night class, so I'll try everything you guys suggested and let you all know how I do.

Thanks guys! =D

 

[GwJ]

In all honesty, Kirby's Fsmash is a pretty bad move. It's got some pretty heavy lag when blocked, use that to your advantage.

 

[Mister Eric]

In all honesty, Kirby's Fsmash is a pretty bad move. It's got some pretty heavy lag when blocked, use that to your advantage.

truesay about kirb-ay.
although this semi slow move packs a mega punch and if your shield is worked down enough and you try to block w/o aiming your shield then kapowie. I know I have a pretty rough time against Y.b.M.'s kirby then again according to ally and m2k, he's the best kirbs in the nation.

 

[Zwarm]

yea, most of the time, he uses F-smash once he's pressured my shield down enough to poke through it. He also is able to pull off a D-air to F-smash combo that seems to work pretty well against R.O.B., especially when D-air weakens my shield pretty well.

 

[Mister Eric]

bait bait then bring the hate. you want him to throw out those smashes. look vulnerable to him, see it coming, evade and then parade on that marshmallow

 

[Zwarm]

We just played for about an hour, videos will be up soon. I did okay, I won a few matches, but more often then not, he realized that I was countering his old tactics, and started doing new one, including a battle where he basically used Final Cutter the entire ****ing match

Yea, I'll post a link to my Youtube page once the videos are up.

 

[Syde7]

We just played for about an hour, videos will be up soon. I did okay, I won a few matches, but more often then not, he realized that I was countering his old tactics, and started doing new one, including a battle where he basically used Final Cutter the entire ****ing match

Yea, I'll post a link to my Youtube page once the videos are up.

If he's using it from a distance, powershield. If he's using it as a means to stop from getting hit multiple times/combo'd/whatever, back off and let him do it. Jump->airdodge through it as it comes down, laser him as he lands.

 

[Zwarm]

If he's using it from a distance, powershield. If he's using it as a means to stop from getting hit multiple times/combo'd/whatever, back off and let him do it. Jump->airdodge through it as it comes down, laser him as he lands.

Yea, I definitely need to keep that in mind next time he decides to start up again. He mainly used it from a distance, using it until I missed the shield, then ran in and Up-smashed or grabbed me.

EDIT: Here is the link to the 15 matches we had earlier: http://allisbrawl.com/video/album.aspx?id=15348

 

[6Mizu]

I didn't read any post above this one but the thing that popped from what you wrote is that you approached....Rob should NEVER approach Kirby.

This the MU camp.....camp...camp some more. Then when Kirby approaches use tilts and aerials. This will force kirby away then you start over again.
This may take time to get the hang of if your still learning how to camp correctly.
Hope you do better against Kirby.

 

[ipitydatfu]

saw the first couple vids. interesting. you favor the left side of the stage quite alot, but quite predictably. especially dropping down and nairing against teh wall. on the right side, you're a bit more creative when it comes to recovering.

your tendencies to stay off stage and try to create openings by ledgehopping is hurting you more than helping you.

kinda confused why you would run into a charged fsmash

your DI could be a bit better.

saw the third match.... yeah you should DI better. and not take on kirby offstage not the best of ideas. little tip: if you get swallowed by kirby, you get a free dair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqUXRVN3r3E thats stingers here on the boards

 

[6Mizu]

This was a while back....so i'm guessing that stingers has gotten better.
Also, he doesn't really play ROB.....anymo'.

 

[Zwarm]

Running into the F-smash was an accident, and I know it was stupid. Thanks for the input! It's nice to have someone notice something I do that no one else has noticed before. I'll work on not getting myself off the stage as much, I realize it's probably the most obvious thing I do. I mostly do it to try and bait people off the stage, but that doesn't really work against Kirby XD. I do really need to work on my DI, I still need to think about it when I'm hit, and by then it's too late.

 

[ipitydatfu]

This was a while back....so i'm guessing that stingers has gotten better.
Also, he doesn't really play ROB.....anymo'.

it was just an example of what you could do out of a swallow, rather than jumping away

 

[GwJ]

Stingers doesn't play ROB as a main, but he's still one of the best and is certainly qualified to be noted in matchup discussions.

<3 stongers

 

[6Mizu]

Stingers doesn't play ROB as a main, but he's still one of the best and is certainly qualified to be noted in matchup discussions.

<3 stongers

Yes...
I <3 Stingers.....aswell.


Also, do not let kirby swallow you.
I strongly forbid this, and I think everyone else does aswell. You'll find out why.....eventually.

 

[GwJ]

But when he does, it extremely satisfying to knock it out of him by luck with a laser right afterwards.

 

[6Mizu]

If he does do this use D-air( Swallow)....you can get a free d-air on kirby.

 

[stingers]

if a kirby steals your power you can dair

i mean why not? lol

 

[T0MMY]

Every time I try to approach from the air, I get shield grabbed. Every time I try to approach with D-tilt or F-tilt, he spotdodges, and I get an F-Smash to the face.

Quit F-air'ing his Shield. I'm saying not to F-air the Shield like you do because chances are if you're not getting Shield grabbed out of the N-air, B-air, D-air. If you are, you need to auto-cancel, space, and move after the hit.
If you find that you F-air'd his Shield, it should be on a retreat (pull back while F-air'ing), or at least on a rising F-air, because if you're landing with your F-air you're going to get landing lag and he'll grab out of Shield and try the standard Kirby combo on you (Which you should have learned to SDI out of since it sounds like you've played the matchup a lot).

The second he gets me off the ledge, he B-airs the hell out of me, either racking up a bunch of damage leading into an F-smash once I get back to the stage, or I run out of fuel, although this is rare.

First, don't get forced off the ledge. Yeah, too broad of advice there, but it's up to you to figure out how to do that, since I don't know anything about your matches I'd suggest maintaining your distance with more Tilts (specifically D-Tilt and F-Tilt) and if he really closes in, don't hesitate to use your Jabs at all.
But in the unfortunate circumstance that you are forced off the stage, position yourself below him so it is impossible for him to B-air you. Pretty simple, huh? Now he's playing on your terms, not you with his. He will attempt to accommodate this change by going for a D-air, which you will thwart with your U-air (it should always out-prioritize, so don't worry).

Also... do not get F-Smashed. If you're using your Tilt and Jabs like I said you should be fast enough to keep that from happening since you have the reach on him. This will force him to come at you with aerial attacks. At which point you will have to read those. But one step at a time.

When I get more defensive and camp more than usual, I laser and gyro to keep him away, but usually my laser is weak, with little knockback, and shields my gyro almost every time.

Don't rely on spammed lasers for knockback, reserve that for long-shots to add damage, nothing more. If you're focusing on your close-ranged attacks eventually it will unspam which will be about the time it fully charges and you may be able to sweep him off the screen for a KO.
If he shields your Gyro, switch it up... this is the type of thing you just have to come up with on your own, and it's about breaking habits. What I like to do is charge the Gyro, when they see it they will perceive a threat and put up their Shield to block it. Keep charging. Then fire. By the time they see you're charging and not firing they will drop their Shield and get hit. If they keep their Shield up... free full-charged Gyro.

I can usually shield grab his approaching B-airs, but he usually ducks under my F-tilt when he approaches, and shields my D-tilt, leading to his F-tilt.

You realize you can angle your F-Tilt down? That might give you a little extra reach compared to your D-Tilt he Shields.
But I think your main problem here is your habits you need to break. He's the one reading you constantly. What's ironic is that you know exactly what he does to you... so why don't you change it up? If you know he approaches with a Shield on your D-Tilt try walking away, spacing yourself while he puts up his Shield and then turn-cancel a F-Tilt right when he drops his Shield. Even if you catch his Shield still you can put pressure on him with D-Tilt and Jab.
Also, I don't think you should be getting punished if he Shields your D-Tilt, Kirby shouldn't be able to D-Tilt you from that range. This leads me to suggest maybe to watch your spacing/timing on your Tilts. Keep in mind Kirby slides quite a distance when he Shields out of a Dash, this is probably how he can get a Shield up and get close enough to D-Tilt you. So, once again, if he Dashes at you, simply change it up, don't let him respond to your habits (this will get both of you better at playing)

He is also really good at shield pressuring me, to the point where his D-tilt can trip me, leading to yet another F-smash.

This isn't something I can tell you specifically... again, it's probably him just used to your playstyle, so quit doing the same thing. If he's hitting your Shield repeatedly, you don't have to stand there and let him, simply Roll away. After you get your spacing, again Tilt and projectiles to aggravate him.

On top of all of this, he resorts to air camping when I can finally get past everything, leading me to have even more problems.

Air camping shouldn't be effective at all. Wario is a lot better at doing that, and R.O.B. can still handle him. Kirby cannot camp R.O.B., he should be eating lasers and Gyros if he attempts that.

Overall, he is ridiculously annoying to me, and I have no idea what to do to stop him. I can usually get him down to one stock, but he shield pressures me to the point where he can F-smash through my shield.

Quit relying on your Shield so much. You can outprioritize practically everything he has.

tl;dr: I kinda suck against my roommate's Kirby, what can I do to improve against him?

To summarize: Quit giving him the opportunity to control the match through the exploits of your habits that you refuse to break. Once you do that learn to exploit his patterns and keep him on your turf.

Here's actually a pretty good representation of what happens when I play against him, when he does his combos and stuff, but there's more shield grabbing, and I usually lose. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqUXRVN3r3E

I'd tell both players in that video to quit throwing out blind attacks so wrecklessly so they get punished so much.

 

[Zwarm]

Thanks T0MMY! I've actually improved a lot since writing this. Not only just in the matchup, but R.O.B. as a character. I can usually deal with his Kirby now, for the most part. When I lose, they're usually pretty close. I've learned to camp more, and keep him away with my tilts, lasers and gyros as best as possible. I've started going to more tournaments, which is just helping me get better with R.O.B. overall.