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I'd like to see both in. But I get annoyed with Isaac supporters because they constantly shoot Shulk down, and the points raised here don't really prove anything ABOUT anything. It's completely arbitrary. Arbitrary points are worthless. I get that speculation is a lot of arbitration, but the points here need to be proven as fact to be taken seriously.
the last one is "The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game." Being a franchise character does fit into this criteria and could very well make a character more viable commercially.
I am one of those who wants them both as well. But just because I like a character does not mean I am not willing to discuss their chances.
The thing though is that the criteria in question is very vague.
I went on to say that Sakurai's criteria is very broad. But it's important to note I wasnt the one who brought up the criteria. I was following up from Scoliosis Jones's points. Sakurai's 4 criteria really wasnt a part of what I was talking about.
Out of the two, I'd rather have Isaac because that would indicate the continuation of the GS to some extent, rather than hoping for a new title when camelot is done with the Mario Sports title. But I would be fine with either. Considering X, I think Xenoblade's legacy is fine. But both would be awesome.
im trying to drop it dude, but you are using a straw man (which is funny, because you said you were speaking out against them on the last page). you keep mischaracterizing what I was saying.
"High Entia Boss" is kind of vague. Can you describe it (under spoiler collapse in order to avoid spoiling) ?
I think I used Shulk/Reyn/Sharla if I recall and had Sharla focus on healing while Reyn took the brunt of the damage by increasing his defense.I feel like I took at the big monster first and then everyone else.
You should at least be level 41. 42 to be safe. What party are you using?
You ignored everything I just said and repeated yourself.
I'm tired dude. You're repeating yourself as well.
You still can't get this though your head so let me spell it out for you: Your definition of a series is not the issue we are discussing.
cool. The problem is I clearly defined what we were talking about a while back. You are the one that's ignoring points. What constitutes a series is directly related to what I am saying. It's at the heart of the discussion.
I simply don't think that is the way to look at it.
Just read this. I'm not trying to prolong this to prove a point. I'm just clarifying.
On the AT thing: I dont think anything has changed for the AT's that would have had a chance regardless if they were AT's. So characters like Little Mac and Isaac have the same chance they did if they werent AT's. Clearly, there will be AT's that dont make it in. In fact, the vast majority won't make it in. I can understand a disagreement about Isaac's chances if he werent an AT, but Little Mac is a good choice regardless considering his history and role within Nintendo. So for Little Mac alone, I'm hesitant to look at former (and perhaps future AT's that way). Not a whole lot has changed though. I thought Starfy was going to be AT prior to the reveal. In fact, I would say that I think most AT's will remain AT's other than Isaac and Little Mac.
I completely agree. I think it's tough to compare what happened with previous titles and this one because the amount of big names characters has heavily decreased.
I'll gladly take them both, and don't see any reason why we can't have both. I'd personally prioritize Shulk, but of the previous game's ATs that should be promoted to playable, Isaac stands at the top of the list for me.
The Nopon set.
Stellar Armour, hands down.
Gem crafting lets you take ether and makes it into gems that boost your stats. I was going to compare it to EV's in Pokemon but that's not really a good comparison.
So Shulk's only going to get in as an afterthought because he was similar to an existing character?
Sakurai has never said he's looking mostly for new series. Obviously if there's a new series that can compare to the others already added, like Pikmin and AC could, he's not going to hesitate, but if he really was looking "mostly" for new series, he'd be a lot more lenient with them, which there's no proof of. There were many new series with fine candidates around Brawl's time, more than now, yet we only got one "new" series. If he really was looking for new series... and aiming to give them special treatment... we would've had more than one (two if he had given AC a rep) characters from new IPs when we had 17 from existing or older ones.
This is true for the most part... but just because we're getting one game similar to another doesn't mean either are necessarily on par with the other top candidates from unrepresented series.
That's true too. But it's not like Shulk offers originality where other characters don't; even if Shulk offers something wholly original to himself that other characters can't claim... he's hardly the only character that applies too. Also... it's not like we have any evidence of Sakurai seeking out sword-wielders, so making the distinction seems... arbitrary.
And? Is there any proof of Sakurai favouring a first-party when a second-party is just as deserving? No, there's evidence of Sakurai choosing the biggest and most prevalent of Nintendo's series... which are almost all first-parties.
The size of Xenoblade and Golden Sun aren't close. People think they are because the only thing they can remember is Dark Dawn. Golden Sun is not a big series, not compared to what we already have. Not at all. But it's bigger than the majority of what's left. It's bigger than Shulk's series. The impact might not be as fresh, it might not be as connected, but it was bigger.
Two trailers in a Direct? That's major now? Wonderful 101 got a lot more than that. And yeah sure, X will eventually get more... but I don't see Nintendo placing focus on it greater than any other game... and for all the promotion and everything... what it boils down to for Smash is how the audience receives it, that determines what gets big, and that largely determines what is included. Sure, promotion helps, obviously... but like I said, it hasn't gotten any more than the other Wii U or 3DS games.
Just like how Sakurai saw Charizard and thought his future would be nothing more than a Pokeball, right? We can't make such presumptions, they're possible, but they're unfounded. What we do know is Isaac didn't make it as a character. We do not know if this is because Sakurai thought this was all he amounted to. For all we know, Isaac could've been a planned addition in the early stages, then cut. He's from an unrepresented series, he doesn't emulate any of the existing characters closely, he's not fit to be a filler character, and Sakurai prioritized other characters higher. For all we know, that could've happened, there's the same amount of proof. In Smash 64, a game targeted solely at Japan, there wasn't one FE character planned (as far as we know). Two years later, with minimal (if any) series growth, the original protagonist of the series was made a priority character. By your logic... why would this happen? Sakurai clearly didn't find him worthy of being playable initially, and he didn't do anything noteworthy between the games, right?
Success as in profitable? I guess. Success as in critically? Yeah, obviously, it was a great game. Success as in it found a large audience, larger than most other unrepresented series? No... it did ok for how limited it was... and I agree, it has potential legs as a series, but as far as 2012, when the roster was likely finalized, the fanbase was loud, sure, but it wasn't exactly large.
By this logic we might as well cut all characters who use their fists, except one.
Exactly.SmashChu said:
Again I agree, the best is a middle-ground between the two. I was just pointing out the contradiction between someone who will not take issue when someone else argues for a character for no reason other than "not dismissing anything" aka pure baseless predicting, yet will then tell others who do the same thing for a different character, that without backing, arguing for that character is useless.
No... it's just that if you favour one, people think you dislike the other.
Personally I agree if a sole game can stand up on its own when compared to the other series it's "competing" with (imo a misnomer in and of itself), it's not a problem, that said, retros are not in the same category as current series.
There'd be no evidence that AC was considered either if Sakurai hadn't said so. Just because Sakurai has never commented specifically on Isaac or GS doesn't mean we can assume his mentality about the series, it's not like he shares all considered characters with the public. Same goes for any series really, people seem to forget the amount of information we know about Smash's development can't even come close to the information we don't know. We're not working with a full picture here.
Sales and marketing? Xenoblade had like... very minimal official marketing and sales to match that. It didn't do badly, but its reception commercially is really nothing to brag about.
Not exactly related to what you were talking about, but while listening is fine... it shouldn't be prioritized above observing actual actions. Sakurai says he values uniqueness, originality, and what characters can bring... then he pads the roster with clones instead of prioritizing one or two additional original characters. Just because Sakurai says it doesn't mean it's gospel, doesn't mean there's only one way to interpret what he's saying, and doesn't mean it's even the truth. But the actions, at the least the ones we can see, they don't lie.
Isaac = Krystal (aka the fanbase that is notably loud and will hunt down anything that is seen as a threat.)
I guess all those times correcting misconceptions people have with legitimate sources no longer counts.
The Melee padding example kind of doesn't work, since many of those clones were expanded on or simply removed for the next game. Those clones were solely included for quantity over quality, and since the reception of those clones were negative it naturally would be discouraged for any future installments. This shows in Brawl where the newcomer that was closest to being a clone was Toon Link, and even then he's not similar like in a vein to Mario and Dr. Mario.
Thanks N3ON, this is exactly what i needed (And sorry for my failure in the other message, I would like to have the option of deleting my messages).
