Having trouble against IC chain grabs

[Villi]

Not getting grabbed doesn't always work, obviously. >_____>

I'm having trouble with this matchup, especially as Sheik. Is there a special combination of throws that you guys use for fast fallers? Honestly, when I get grabbed, I have no idea what's going on and I think it would help if I did.

What about floaty princess types like Peach/Marth/Zelda? I skimmed the boards and it seemed like heavies for some reason are more difficult to chain throw... why is that?

What throws are typically alternated to create a chain grab? Is it possible to DI a certain way so that they don't work as easily?

 

[momochuu]

Not getting grabbed doesn't always work, obviously. >_____>

I'm having trouble with this matchup, especially as Sheik. Is there a special combination of throws that you guys use for fast fallers? Honestly, when I get grabbed, I have no idea what's going on and I think it would help if I did.

The chaingrabs used depends on the person chaingrabbing you. I prefer FThrow to BThrow most of the time, some others prefer DThrow to BThrow. The best thing you can do is attempt to mash out. Or hope they mess up.

What about floaty princess types like Peach/Marth/Zelda? I skimmed the boards and it seemed like heavies for some reason are more difficult to chain throw... why is that?

Some lightweights like Olimar and Kirby are easy to chaingrab. Peach is somewhat easy, and so is Marth. Zelda is a bit iffy though. I have a bit of a problem BThrowing her. Heavies like Snake and ROB are hard to chaingrab, while others like Bowser and DK are extremely easy to chaingrab. I'm starting to think that the characters' body shape has as much of an impact if they're easy to chaingrab as their weight does.

What throws are typically alternated to create a chain grab? Is it possible to DI a certain way so that they don't work as easily?

BThrow to BThrow, DThrow to BThrow, and FThrow to BThrow are often used. The only one you can DI is DThrow to FAir chaingrabs.

 

[ignore the fire]

Villi, your sig is sooo awesome. I love her.
and I love how you classified Marth as the "floaty princess type" lol.

On topic:
Basically everything bunny said. If you're playing a good ICs player, the weight usually won't matter. Also, if you get caught in a good IC's CG, there's nothing you can do unless they mess up.

I wouldn't use sheik because he playstyle is basically asking for a grab. Marth is supposed to be an IC counter, but I've yet to play a Marth that's given me trouble. Zelda might be a good choice because she's somewhat hard to CG and she can separate the ICs somewhat easily. I could see Peach being a difficult matchup too.

 

[Kage Me]

I could see Peach being a difficult matchup too.

Hardly.

Zelda's pretty tough, though.

 

[JustNoOne]

Zelda's not that hard to CG, Marth and Peach is kinda easy to CG anyways.

Heavies are hard to GC usually because CGers have good reflexes and honestly, how would you like ot wait a longtime to regrab Snake? It's annoying and it sometimes messed up the timing when we redo the CG on lightweights.

I always do Dthrow to Fthrow, Fthrow to Fthrow and Dthrow to Bthrow.

 

[momochuu]

A good Peach is actually pretty irritating to fight. Kinda like Wario, but toned down a bit. You can't really desynch against her, and she can just camp with DAir all day.

 

[ignore the fire]

A good Peach is actually pretty irritating to fight. Kinda like Wario, but toned down a bit. You can't really desynch against her, and she can just camp with DAir all day.

This is what I was talking about. Dair *****.

 

[JustNoOne]

Her Dair can be dealt with with our blizzard but the problem is that if we miss it we're screwed, it's annoying but it's manageable.

 

[momochuu]

She's going to be in the air. Above your head. Blizzard hits in front of the ICs. Her DAir will 9 times out of 10 hit you before you get the chance to Blizzard.

 

[JustNoOne]

Spacing with pesudo-Bairs kinda helps but a Peach player would likely do a Fair and Bair; if it hits and we're at a low percent, she can follow up with a turnip if she's holding one.

It also sucks Utilt won't work here as well, SH Uair might work but really which one has priority over the other? As well, I sometimes try to squall her in the air just to mix it up.

As well eventually she will come down and when she does, I expect jab so I try to wait for the end when she starts floating, and go for a SH Blizzard when she's not holding a turnip, when she is I try to get in with a Squall.

 

[KRDsonic]

With Sheik, if you get grabbed then just accept your death for that stock.

Just Needle camp against them when you can, and platforms help a lot against them. Oh yeah, the chain also makes it hard for them to grab you.


I personally would go Zelda for that matchup though, Ice Climbers are so easy to fight with her if you try using her against them after having used Sheik against them.

 

[ignore the fire]

With Sheik, if you get grabbed then just accept your death for that stock.

Just Needle camp against them when you can, and platforms help a lot against them. Oh yeah, the chain also makes it hard for them to grab you.


I personally would go Zelda for that matchup though, Ice Climbers are so easy to fight with her if you try using her against them after having used Sheik against them.

I agree with everything here except the chain.
Doesn't pulling in the chain have just enough lag for the ICs to grab?
I mean, if they're close enough to get hit with the chain, then when sheik puts it away ICs will get a grab.

Either way, Zelda would be the better choice by far.

 

[momochuu]

If you're playing Zelda right, she will get grabbed maybe once the entire match.

 

[EverAlert]

I'm starting to think that the characters' body shape has as much of an impact if they're easy to chaingrab as their weight does.

Bigger bodyframe = bigger hitbox = more stuff to regrab. Simple logic, Bunny. :B



My thoughts regarding the OP:

Weight/floatiness/size/etc. won't matter if your opponent is a decent Icies. Players have individual preferences on what chain combos and weight classes they find easier/harder. The actual statistics of the recieving character is irrelevant; there is no universally harder or easier character/weight class/grab combo.

You're only going to get out if they screw up. (They will. The aforementioned "decent Icies who can chain grab any character with ease" is extremely rare.) You can also mash out below ~30% if they're slow with the grabs. But basically you're going to want to DI in case they screw up.

DI up/down if they bthrow or fthrow you. DI left/right for dthrow/upthrow. Also you might be grabbed at the edge (i.e. they're about to spike you off the side). If they're holding you on the stage (your character's touching the stage), DI toward the stage. If they're holding you so you're dangling off the side, DI away from the stage (yes, it does help).

Just remember that the DI only helps if they screw up. It doesn't affect the chain grab while it's working.

Also you asked what throws we use in chain grabs. Those would be bthrow, dthrow and fthrow.

That's about it, I guess...

 

[Foufy]

Can their CG's be infinite?
As in, can they go back and forth around the stage for infinite damage.
(Sorry, not very knowledgeable of the IC's)

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Can their CG's be infinite?
As in, can they go back and forth around the stage for infinite damage.
(Sorry, not very knowledgeable of the IC's)

Their CGs are already an infinite, and can infinite. ;D

 

[KRDsonic]

I agree with everything here except the chain.
Doesn't pulling in the chain have just enough lag for the ICs to grab?
I mean, if they're close enough to get hit with the chain, then when sheik puts it away ICs will get a grab.

Either way, Zelda would be the better choice by far.

Actually, her chain is really handy in this matchup if you know how and when to use it. Don't keep it out of course or you will get grabbed, but you can just throw it out if they dash at you and then pull it back in before they get a chance to run back up to you, so basically it's a spacing tool that makes Ice Climbers think twice about trying to run to get the grab.

I've never had another Sheik do it against me so I don't know if it's effective against Ice Climbers from their side of the fight, but whenever I'm Sheik against them it seems to work.

 

[ignore the fire]

Ahh I see. Interesting.
It does seem risky though.

 

[Kage Me]

Ahh I see. Interesting.
It does seem risky though.

It is. Very, very much so.