having biiiig troubles against snake, need help!!!

[JUDGE]

hey there ^^
yesterday i brawled against a really good snake and.......i got *****!!!
but today i will fight him again and now i need help.

1.what are the best ways to approach a snake??
2.how can i avoid to be hit from his grenades that he has dropped(i often gets hit when i try to attack him and hit the grenades)
3.what can i do against his oos tilts(especially oos uptilt)
4. how can i edgeguard a snake effectivly???
5. should i play agressive or campy(i think campy is better or not??)
6.what moves of mario do i have to abuse most??

 

[Inferno3044]

1. I would go with fireballs, but bair spacing might work.
2. Nothing you really can do but look out for them and be prepared.
3. Same as #2. Either that or when he shields, move away from him.
4. If you can get them off stage and not high up, there are things you can do. Fair is an easy option because cypher just asks to be spiked. There are other things. If he tries to use a C4 to explode himself up, use FLUDD and he will stop rising.
5. Play campy until he gets close. Then get in his face.
6. Your air game is so much better than his. Get him in the air and juggle with Uairs.

 

[BSP]

I think inferno covered most of everything. And on number four, from what i have learned from fighting snake, if you can fludd him while he's doing cypher, he goes higher, but it stalls him a little, and will probably force him to get to the edge. And if he tries to fly over you to the other side, fludd him off. And even if caping him gives him cypher back, you can still use fludd to mess wtih him. Play smart. one more thing, rememder that fludd stops the nades' momentum.

 

[JUDGE]

hahaha^^
thx for the help guys but the problem is..........what you said are all basic stuffs that i already know^^
don't get me wrong, it's nice that you want to help but i already use those stuff against this snake.
it's normally working well but as i already said: he is a real good snake^^
i already play campy with my fireballs and retreat immediatly with bair so that he can't hit me with his oos attacks.
i already abuse the bair and my other oos options to send him into the air
i already try to fight him in the air cuz i know that he sucks there.........but he has a good DI and DI most of the time out of my combos and take out new grenades and..........****ING SNAKE!!!!
i can't really attack him on the grond because of the grenades...... and in the air i can't deal enough damage because of his DI
and my fireballs don't make enough damage
and at hire percent he can easy kill me with his tilts....
it's so annoying : (

****!! never fought such a good snake

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hey guys! I could use help too! I mean, someone tell me how to beat SuSa. T_T

I learned the hard way that a pivot grabbing Snake is the scariest thing ever.

 

[Veggi]

Don't approach Snake, it's a boring fight, but just jump around shooting fireballs at him. If there is a platform near you just stand on the platforms and fire them downwards until he chooses to come to you. If you have a full FLUDD, FLUDD Snake off the edge so it's impossible for him to keep you from approaching and it's not like he's going to plank you or anything. If you have to approach him, try shdair, if you start the dair early enough, you should be able to jump before you touch the ground. If the last hit of dair connects, you can chain it into uair>uair or uair>nair. Remember that you might have to fastfall the second uair to keep up with your opponent.

About avoiding grenades, pretty much just don't attack them and don't shoot a fireball when you are too close to them. Remember they are on a three second timer.

 

[UberMario]

1. Throw fireballs and run up behind them into a grab.
2. Grab the grenades and immediately throw them at the Snake.
3. Roll behind into a grab. There's just enough lag to get a dash grab on him out of a roll.
4. Back aerial him away from the stage, then hit him with an FSmash from the side when he uses Cypher. When he uses C4, Fludd him away from the blast radius.
5. Campy is better as long as you volley his grenades back at him.
6. Fireball, Jab, and Aerials.

 

[JUDGE]

yeah i realized that spamming fire balls are useful but.............for obvious reason it looks REALLY boring and it's like i'm a scrub^^
but whatever x'DD

and i already sh=>dair when i'm close....but as i already said his grenades and his oos uptilt makes me sick. and this technique is very predictable......... hmmm i try to keep it fresh^^
i already use EVERY options to send him in to the air but his DI is too good and make it hard to chase him



ah and how can i avoid the grenades that he drop???
he like dropping the grenades and fighting in the near of them.....
and he is a master by avoiding to be hit from them,so the only one who gets a burning *** is me....... : (

 

[UberMario]

yeah i realized that spamming fire balls are useful but.............for obvious reason it looks REALLY boring and it's like i'm a scrub^^
but whatever x'DD

and i already sh=>dair when i'm close....but as i already said his grenades and his oos uptilt makes me sick. and this technique is very predictable......... hmmm i try to keep it fresh^^
i already use EVERY options to send him in to the air but his DI is too good and make it hard to chase him

Like I said, the grenades behave like items and can be thrown. Also when your in an aerial dogfight, try to keep to the side/below.

 

[JUDGE]

Like I said, the grenades behave like items and can be thrown. Also when your in an aerial dogfight, try to keep to the side/below.

no i mean how can i avoid the grenades that been dropped
i can't go easily in front of snake, take the grenades and throw them away without getting hit from one of his tilts : (

 

[UberMario]

no i mean how can i avoid the grenades that been dropped
i can't go easily in front of snake, take the grenades and throw them away without getting hit from one of his tilts : (

Hmmm, try grabbing them using a short-hop air dodge. That way you have invincibility frames, get behind him, and grab the grenade at the same time.

 

[ThatGuy]

I don't understand why people are suggesting not to approach Snake; that makes you play right into his game...

You can try more grabs (I suggest Fthrow if you don't have slot priority) on him if he doesn't sidestep a lot, it will absorb tilts, not set off grenades, and gets him while in shield, so that seems to answer a couple problems you seem to have. Basically it's a guessing game once you're inside his range.

Of course his tilts are a pain. Just accept that if you're above 100%, you're ready to die. Therefore, don't let him get you to that point.

Rolling behind Snake is a good way to get inside his range if you don't do it too often, or in obvious spots such as from the edge. You can do SH Cape to bug him, it's pretty safe. Caping backwards reflects grenades.

Videos would obviously help.

 

[JUDGE]

I don't understand why people are suggesting not to approach Snake; that makes you play right into his game...

You can try more grabs (I suggest Fthrow if you don't have slot priority) on him if he doesn't sidestep a lot, it will absorb tilts, not set off grenades, and gets him while in shield, so that seems to answer a couple problems you seem to have. Basically it's a guessing game once you're inside his range.

Of course his tilts are a pain. Just accept that if you're above 100%, you're ready to die. Therefore, don't let him get you to that point.

Rolling behind Snake is a good way to get inside his range if you don't do it too often, or in obvious spots such as from the edge. You can do SH Cape to bug him, it's pretty safe. Caping backwards reflects grenades.

Videos would obviously help.

oh wow that was the first adcvice that REALLY helped me^^
the others were ok but most of the stuff i already knew and .....apperently the snake too^^


ok so there is still the problem with his tilts
i have a good DI^^ i can DI most of the time(that mean 80%)out of his ftilt^so that he can't kill me
and i can survive his uptilt until.......i would say 130% or something like that(not sure^^ have to check it^^)
dunno who long i can survive his dtilt but i don't often gets hit from that cuz it's slower than his uptilt and i can easy dodge

how do i have to manage his oos tilts
i often use mindgames like cape backwards(or airdodge), so that he think i attack and makes his uptilt^^ after that i can easily punish him with a bair and start my combo in the air(when he don't DI away^^)

but after a time they getting predictable and it's hard to keep them fresh

so guys any other mindgames for me in such a situation???
and especially: how can i deal his tilts??

thx in advance

 

[ThatGuy]

Like I said, try some SH capes (Short hop, cape, airdodge backwards). It will hit the blind spot where his Ftilt and Utilt cannot reach you. Mix in a couple Bairs on his shield (also out of range) to keep him honest. Eventually his shield will get chipped enough where you can approach with a fireball in front of you (freezes any OoS option he can do) and SH Dair to pierce, or grab. He can protect himself by tilting his shield up, but you can Dash attack underneath if he does (VERY risky).

Personally, I feel the best way to deal with Snake is with fireballs, but they need to be followed up with an approach of some sort. He can just walk forward and powershield them all day and eventually you'll be pushed to the edge, which is definately where you don't want to be. Keep fighting to retain stage control.

Watch this match (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv5SbyjqUF4&feature=related) from 3:45. You can see that when I'm smart enough with the fireballs, I get a free approach on Dom, but when I spam them he can either toss some grenades to block them, or powershield them and get right inside my range while I'm in cooldown. I used them terribly towards the end of that match and it probably cost me. Please note that I only discovered using more offensive capes after having a lot of matches with Dom, and we go much more even nowadays (he's still better than me and ranked above me on our Quebec PR, although I most recently 3 stocked him in a crew battle ).

 

[JUDGE]

oh wow that was helpful^^
ok so don't spam fireballs like an idiot^^
i keep that in mind and use them wisely^^ x'DD
and yeah the snake i brawl also powershield often my fireballs

btw great mindgame at 4:27^^

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Play smart. That's how I do it.

 

[The Master of Mario]

Things that will help

Walking Grab and grab game- You'll need to pummel and rack up damage with B-throw. Very critical against snake.
Mario's F-tilt and Dash Attack because these will send snake to the edge or in the air.
Up-smash can rack up damage but be sure it will hit by using after fast moves like auto-cancelled U-air, B-air, U-tilt.
Attack with cape instead of D-smash when you see an opening it will make it harder to punish. Cape can lead into D-air, Punches or grabs which can rack on the damage.
Up-B out of Shield-> Fastfall
B-air out of Shield-> U-air
Reverse aerial Rush Blind U-air combos at low percents
Cape increase vertical knockback of Snake exploding himself
Fludd can messup his grenades and mines and Cape handles the rest

Now for the fun part:
KOing Snake:
F-tilt can be used to knock him from the edge into a RAR B-air or Blind U-air.
Fludd can push him off the stage so he uses one of his laggy aerials instead of a ground attack.
Fireball->F-smash can catch snake in the air and knock him hard enough horizontally.
F-air can knock him from his Up-special and send him downwards in a spike.
Cape can get him to use his recovery again which you can then F-smash him out of.
The key to KOing Snake is to get Snake in the air near the edge where Mario can Cape, B-air/U-air/F-air or F-smash his laggy air game.

 

[ThatGuy]

Master of Mario, what do you mean by Blind Uair? You say it often but I have no idea what that means, haha.

 

[stealth3654]

For the OOS tilts: I suggest try doing aerials and landing behind him sometimes because all his tilts hit in front of him.

For comboing Snake in the air: If he pulls out a grenade, what you do is get to the ground and grab him. If you have port priority, you can pummel and blow up the grenade in his face. If not, just forward throw. Another thing that helps me is when I get Snake in the air, I will wait for him to come back down (usually with an air dodge). I then grab him and throw him up in the air and this time, follow him with attacks.

You really got to mix it up, or else Snake will punish you hard.

 

[JUDGE]

ok guys thx for the help^^
but yeah what means blind Uair??
and at stealth: i think trying to land behind him is a bit to riky or not??
i mean he shields my attacks and if i try to land behind him and it DON'T work than i am in his range and easy to punish or not??

 

[UberMario]

Master of Mario, what do you mean by Blind Uair? You say it often but I have no idea what that means, haha.

I'm not sure, but I think he means that you feint a Fair or Nair, but go for the Uair instead.

(Like when the opponents off-stage and you leap at them, and when they think you're about to Fair, you use Uair to KO them.)

That's how I read it anyway.

and at stealth: i think trying to land behind him is a bit to riky or not??
i mean he shields my attacks and if i try to land behind him and it DON'T work than i am in his range and easy to punish or not??

It's only truly risky if you don't air dodge into a grab, and if you miss just roll AWAY from Snake.

 

[JUDGE]

It's only truly risky if you don't air dodge into a grab, and if you miss just roll AWAY from Snake.

yeah but didn't he said something to land behind him while doing an areial or something??
like hitting his shield with an attack AND land behind him......ok but that would be very tricky but .....^^ hmm i didn't understand it^^ can you explain again it stealth???
^^

 

[DJayS]

if he throws nades at u then fludd them back at him
and if he's recovering near or from under the stage then try going for a fair or a stage spike
and u can also fludd his c4 recovery like this
hope that helps ^_^

 

[JUDGE]

if he throws nades at u then fludd them back at him
and if he's recovering near or from under the stage then try going for a fair or a stage spike
and u can also fludd his c4 recovery like this
hope that helps ^_^

hahaha^^ thx for the help but i already knew that^^

guys it's a really strong snake.....please do not post that basic stuff that everyone already knows.....

but still...thx for all the help guys^^

 

[UberMario]

if he throws nades at u then fludd them back at him
and if he's recovering near or from under the stage then try going for a fair or a stage spike
and u can also fludd his c4 recovery like this
hope that helps ^_^

Wow, that's not how I prevent the c4 recovery, that vid's better.

Spoiler

I fludd them away from the c4 to prevent them from being damaged by it.

I still can't figure out how the water catches people though. (It works with anyone at high damage, easy to see when someone else is captured by a Great Aether and you use FLUDD as they come down)

 

[stealth3654]

yeah but didn't he said something to land behind him while doing an areial or something??
like hitting his shield with an attack AND land behind him......ok but that would be very tricky but .....^^ hmm i didn't understand it^^ can you explain again it stealth???
^^

Lol, sure. If you know the Snake will try a tilt or grab OOS in front of him, you can do an aerial (such as dair or nair) and DI behind him while the attack is still out.

For example: I was playing as Sheik against a DDD. Whenever I tried to use an aerial on him, he would put up his shield and shield grab. I tried again and the same thing happened (SOOOOOO glad Sheik can't be chain grabbed ). So the next time, what I did was do an aerial, DI past him as the aerial hit his shield, and land behind him. The DDD thought I would land in front of him like I did the first two times, so he shield grabbed nothing while I punished.

Do not attempt this too often, because the opponent can easily turn around and punish if you start getting predictable with it. I mainly use this to keep my opponent guessing what I am going to do next.

 

[exdia_16]

so mario has a better air game then snake then that is the solution to beating my friends snake he uses a lot of ftilts and utilts and grenades and the AAA combo so how do i beat that .

 

[The Master of Mario]

Blind U-air

Blind U-air is approaching the opponent like you would for a B-air and instead hitting them with the hitframes of U-air that are behind Mario. Blind U-air can be better than regular U-air because you can take advantage of the 9 frames between the end of the move and when the attack autocancels.

so mario has a better air game then snake then that is the solution to beating my friends snake he uses a lot of ftilts and utilts and grenades and the AAA combo so how do i beat that .

You can approach snake with gliding cape and turn him around then follow with either D-air,D-smash,F-tilt,or Grabs.
You can hit snake with fireballs to bring out his shield and then hit him with a D-air and land behind him.
You can try to outprioritize Snake with the invincibility frames on U-smash or Dash Attack.
You can use foxtrot to approach Snake quickly but hit his attack hitbox with a Cape, or F-smash instead of getting in his range.
You can approach snake with fireballs so he brings out his shield then B-air->N-air so mario lands behind snake. If he sheilds both you can then go for a grab.

 

[vato_break]

Snake is not hard at all,get good lol

 

[:mad:]

Snake is not hard at all, get good lol

What that Vato Break guy said.

Get good. If you need me, I'll be working on the previous sentence.

 

[JUDGE]

Lol, sure. If you know the Snake will try a tilt or grab OOS in front of him, you can do an aerial (such as dair or nair) and DI behind him while the attack is still out.

For example: I was playing as Sheik against a DDD. Whenever I tried to use an aerial on him, he would put up his shield and shield grab. I tried again and the same thing happened (SOOOOOO glad Sheik can't be chain grabbed ). So the next time, what I did was do an aerial, DI past him as the aerial hit his shield, and land behind him. The DDD thought I would land in front of him like I did the first two times, so he shield grabbed nothing while I punished.

Do not attempt this too often, because the opponent can easily turn around and punish if you start getting predictable with it. I mainly use this to keep my opponent guessing what I am going to do next.

Blind U-air is approaching the opponent like you would for a B-air and instead hitting them with the hitframes of U-air that are behind Mario. Blind U-air can be better than regular U-air because you can take advantage of the 9 frames between the end of the move and when the attack autocancels.

ok thx guys^^ i think i got it nao x'DD

 

[condemned_soul]

yeah this thread has helped me alot. I was suppose to play a friendly with ally after the tournament yesterday but most the people left who had game systems so i didnt get the chance. But from what i saw ally, lain, judge, and anther would have been a serious problem. Since lain and anther have chaingrabs and judge is a very good Mk while ally has the best snake......... -_-'' i will really have to step my game up if i want to beat them with mario

 

[UberMario]

yeah this thread has helped me alot. I was suppose to play a friendly with ally after the tournament yesterday but most the people left who had game systems so i didnt get the chance. But from what i saw ally, lain, judge, and anther would have been a serious problem. Since lain and anther have chaingrabs and judge is a very good Mk while ally has the best snake......... -_-'' i will really have to step my game up if i want to beat them with mario

Maybe Ally will switch to give us some Mario magic and prove we're the best. LOL


Seriously though, I think Mario has the potential to be one of the best characters in Brawl.

The only matchups (IMO) that are really to his disadvantage are Warios, aggresive Olimars, and CG-spamming DeDeDes.

Falco, Ice Climbers, Diddy, and Kirby are relatively even.

 

[ThatGuy]

Ally's Mario is abysmal

 

[condemned_soul]

well I need to know what work on MGW. what works, what doesnt, and what to look out for.

 

[JUDGE]

mgw is annoying as heeeeell!!!