has mario gotten worse?

[mariofanpm12]

discuss the changes from melee 2 brawl?
is he better or worse overall?
i think his model is smaller/shorter, giving him less power and range, plus fludd isnt great...
i think hes gotten worse
drmario and mario were my
mains
when doc left, i thought id b able 2 survive... but...

 

[Judge Judy]

Mario's F.L.U.D.D. is awesome but yah his tilts are so short now, at least his Fsmash is rediclously long now, kinda slower now though. I think Mario's better but Brawl's physics have greatly toned down his combo abilities that made him godly.

 

[Fatmanonice]

He's still a middle of the road character. The only move that was significantly nerfed was his back throw. Regardless, his Fsmash is longer, Bair's length was almost doubled, Up B is easier to sweet spot, FLUDD is much more useful than the Mario Tornado was, the cape is now better for recovery and has better range, and Dair is much more useful then it was in Melee. Given Brawl's phsyics, I'd say that Mario is better than he was in Melee.

 

[Kanzaki]

I think Brawl Mario is better, even though I like Melee's Dair better.

However, in Melee, wavedashing was essential to Mario's game, along with edge guarding... Wavedashing is gone, and it's too easy to come back from recovering now, so even though Brawl Mario's better, Melee's physics were better for Mario.

All my opinion.

 

[Matador]

Mario's been buffed. What they did for mario's transformation from melee to brawl was combine the better traits of both Dr.Mario and Mario, add the fludd, and change the dair animation, but keeping the general utilization. His cape is now broken (Excellent ledge stall, capes nearly every recovery, assists your own recovery, reflects projectiles like Pika's downB and Snake's Usmash), his Fludd ruins opponent spacing and easily gimps half the cast's recoveries, His fireballs have the melee trajectory but pill hitstun and rushdown potential, he has double sh aerials, can WoP his bair, Usmash is a techchase Godsend, and his Fsmash is no longer required to sweetspot for a stock. His range has been buffed, his KO power has been buffed, he's better at recovering because his upB gimps like Doc's. I could go on forever. I do agree that Brawl's physics don't compliment him much, but if Brawl's mario were copied onto the melee roster, he'd be top tier without a doubt.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Mario's been buffed. What they did for mario's transformation from melee to brawl was combine the better traits of both Dr.Mario and Mario, add the fludd, and change the dair animation, but keeping the general utilization. His cape is now broken (Excellent ledge stall, capes nearly every recovery, assists your own recovery, reflects projectiles like Pika's downB and Snake's Usmash)...

Woah, woah, woah... Are you serious? God, I wish I'd know this sooner...

 

[Crow!]

The main thing keeping me away from trying mario in Brawl is the fact that he's Mario and not Dr. Mario - fireballs are so much less effective than the pills were. Without a promising ranged game, I don't feel motivated to learn how to make use of his tinyness. (Seriously, did every character other than Mario and Pikachu double in size from Melee to Brawl?)

 

[mariofanpm12]

The main thing keeping me away from trying mario in Brawl is the fact that he's Mario and not Dr. Mario - fireballs are so much less effective than the pills were. Without a promising ranged game, I don't feel motivated to learn how to make use of his tinyness. (Seriously, did every character other than Mario and Pikachu double in size from Melee to Brawl?)

thats how it seems...
mario seems to have lost both range and power in several attacks

 

[Neb]

He has everything he had in melee, plus F.L.U.D.D. He's been buffed, but not too much.

 

[Matador]

Woah, woah, woah... Are you serious? God, I wish I'd know this sooner...

Indeed, it sort of works like diddy's bananas. They don't hurt the user as it comes out, but if caped in the process, the attack no longer hurts you and now hurts them without changing momentum.

The main thing keeping me away from trying mario in Brawl is the fact that he's Mario and not Dr. Mario - fireballs are so much less effective than the pills were. Without a promising ranged game, I don't feel motivated to learn how to make use of his tinyness. (Seriously, did every character other than Mario and Pikachu double in size from Melee to Brawl?)

Why do you think fireballs are less effective than pills? They have the same hitstun, serve the same purpose, yet they have a harder to dodge trajectory. The only difference is that pills used to do 8 dmg, and fireballs do about 6 now. Unless you're real nit-picky about that kind of thing, I don't think that matters very much.

Mario has always had a problem with range. When I picked up mario my first time at the gamestop tournament near me, even with an unfamiliar controller (wiimote + Nunchuck), he felt exactly the same as melee mario to me. I see no size difference and no range problem (more of a priority problem with MK and G&W). Perhaps it's just me, but the only changes I saw in mario's game were buffs.

Edit @ Mariofanpm12- Which attacks have been nerfed on mario? I know you could argue Fair and Dair with luigi, but have you seen his upB, Usmash and Fsmash? All have been seriously buffed, and both have more range than in melee. I honestly don't see what you're seeing.

 

[mariofanpm12]

Indeed, it sort of works like diddy's bananas. They don't hurt the user as it comes out, but if caped in the process, the attack no longer hurts you and now hurts them without changing momentum.


Why do you think fireballs are less effective than pills? They have the same hitstun, serve the same purpose, yet they have a harder to dodge trajectory. The only difference is that pills used to do 8 dmg, and fireballs do about 6 now. Unless you're real nit-picky about that kind of thing, I don't think that matters very much.

Mario has always had a problem with range. When I picked up mario my first time at the gamestop tournament near me, even with an unfamiliar controller (wiimote + Nunchuck), he felt exactly the same as melee mario to me. I see no size difference and no range problem (more of a priority problem with MK and G&W). Perhaps it's just me, but the only changes I saw in mario's game were buffs.

Edit @ Mariofanpm12- Which attacks have been nerfed on mario? I know you could argue Fair and Dair with luigi, but have you seen his upB, Usmash and Fsmash? All have been seriously buffed, and both have more range than in melee. I honestly don't see what you're seeing.

mario's back throw has been nerfed, i think the tornado in midair isnt so great, and all his tilts are weaker

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I haven't seen too many changes between Melee Mario and Brawl Mario. I still take advantage of his smash attacks in Brawl.

I never really used the Mario Tornado back in Melee, so the change to F.L.U.D.D. doesn't affect me that much. Oddly, Mario's d-air (which is the Mario Tornado) is a common move that I use in the air in Brawl.

Overall, Mario hasn't changed all that much IMO. He is supposed to be the most balanced fighter in the game after all.

 

[Matador]

mario's back throw has been nerfed, i think the tornado in midair isnt so great, and all his tilts are weaker

His backthrow never killed anyone that remotely knew how to DI. It still does the same damage.

If you're talking about his Dair, then you haven't seen its utilization. Its main use is to outprioritize opponents in approach, and can be followed up with an Uair afterwards. It has low ending lag and is capable of outprioritizing MK's tornado. Much better than his melee dair, but that's my opinion.

His Dtilt was terrible then, and it's terrible now, so that's not really under debate. His utilt may do less dmg, but can be continuously done against most opponents until about 30% without a chance of them escaping. I think that pretty much compensates. His Ftilt is exactly the same as in melee and serves exactly the same purpose. If it does less damage, it's only 1-2%, nothing gamebreaking.

If these are the only nerfs you see, I don't think you're properly weighing his buffs along with them.

 

[???????]

Mario's Ftilt is slightly shorter and weaker than it was in Melee, but the "Wave Slide" exploit makes it almost impossible to punish now.

 

[Matador]

Mario's Ftilt is slightly shorter and weaker than it was in Melee, but the "Wave Slide" exploit makes it almost impossible to punish now.

Completely forgot about the waveslide thing you told me about. What's your opinion on his transition to brawl?

 

[???????]

I've made statements on this before but I believe that Mario has been buffed overall considering many factors, including Brawl's physics.

 

[Kidlat]

Some buffs, some nerfed. The biggest nerf I have to say is his B-throw because it had more power in Melee. I also prefer the old Mario Tornado because it would have been similar to the Luigi Cyclone of Brawl.

 

[eMORAY21]

He's too small in comparision. Although TBH I didn't think he was too amazing in melee anyways.

 

[boss8]

He's too small in comparision. Although TBH I didn't think he was too amazing in melee anyways.

LMAO!!! melee mario wuz a beast!!! o wow like if u can work your magic mario is top tier cause he can combo the hell out of marth chaingrab shiek from 0->80 then fsmash......chaingrab spacies and gimp there recoverys....etc.....sry mario wuz top tier in melee but sadly he remained in mid because me and the other 2 mario mains didn't put him on the map.......

as for brawl mario:

pros:

Dair---leads to amazement out of shield....dair to dair to uair to uair on heavy characters such as ROB,deedeedee,snake,etc its a free 50 damage.....

Fludd-i don't care what anyone says fludd is an amazing edgeguarding tool.....it confuses your opponent leading them for easy gimp setups...

cape-wow cape has been on steriods latetly...the cape effect lasts longer while at the same time pushing your opponent back.....

cons:

IMO.....i don't look forword for mario having any cons only positives.....

 

[xxCANDYxx]

will: you would be on at this time lol...i havent slept in 2 days!

 

[boss8]

will: you would be on at this time lol...i havent slept in 2 days!

WTF why not???? go to sleep then...

are u teaming with moe this saturday???

also ask jose does he want my Mp4.. for 22 dollas...

 

[xxCANDYxx]

WTF why not???? go to sleep then...

are u teaming with moe this saturday???

also ask jose does he want my Mp4.. for 22 dollas...

yea im pretty sure that im teaming up with moe on saturday
WOAH!!!
it was $21.50...not $22.00
dont try to jip me off 50 cents


on a mario note since this is a mario thread
boss: mario never was top tear in melee...i know you were amazing with mario blah blah blah...but taj was amazing with mewtwo...just b/c hes good with him dont make him top tier...no johns though...b/c we all know you ***** me in melee so theres nothing else to say....beside marios alil better in brawl IMO b/c of fireballs
that is all

(>-_->) (<-_-<)

 

[boss8]

ok we appriciate your opinion.....and ok i will take off the 50 cents....now GTFO of the mario boards......XD lol

 

[xxCANDYxx]

ok we appriciate your opinion.....and ok i will take off the 50 cents....now GTFO of the mario boards......XD lol

haha iight...i dont even know what im doing in the mario threads...even though sometimes i do play mario for fun

(>-_->) (<-_-<)

 

[A2ZOMG]

There are two things I wish Mario had.

1. His B-throw would actually kill at reasonable percents
2. GRAB RANGE. DX

Otherwise I think he's decent overall.

 

[FAILchion-]

I can't really say. His aerials are longer, and his Side Smash is kinda slower. He's still Middle Tier, imo.

 

[Veggi]

I can't really say. His aerials are longer, and his Side Smash is kinda slower. He's still Middle Tier, imo.

Mario is like midle everything, except his range is not good and his edgeguarding is very good.

 

[Kidlat]

No, his F-smash has huge *** range when it is properly stutter-stepped.