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Hacks

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CRASHiC

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I am hosting a tourney in April March ish and I wanted to hear from the smash players their arguments on whether or not I should use hacks. What are your feelings on this? What hacks, if any, should or should not be considered. I personally would not use any hacks but I would like to hear what the smash community thinks of them.

One note however, no characters specific hacks will be done. Only universal.
 

Oracle

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Wow, you misspelled "no".

They make the game more competitive, but add another element of hassle to organizing it. It ultimately is better, but it's kind of hard to do. You also need to decide what hacks first, like how much hitstun, auto or regular l cancel, etc.
 

metaXzero

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Excluding PT and no trip hacks, any hacks will no longer make it a Brawl tourny. It's a new game.

If you're hosting a Brawl+ tourney, you can get suggestions from the threads in GBD.
 

XxBlackxX

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Excluding PT and no trip hacks, any hacks will no longer make it a Brawl tourny. It's a new game.

If you're hosting a Brawl+ tourney, you can get suggestions from the threads in GBD.
how does adding three new characters NOT make it a new game?
 

metaXzero

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how does adding three new characters NOT make it a new game?
Game is still PLAYED the same (the gameplay is unchanged). Especially here when you should already know how to play them based on PT.
Why would you even want to use hacks?
Make the game different (and MAYBE more enjoyable)?

Really, are people going to contribute to this discussion instead of saying "why you use hacks"?
 

Witchking_of_Angmar

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Slowly starting to enjoy my mothertongue again. :)
Excluding PT and no trip hacks, any hacks will no longer make it a Brawl tourny. It's a new game.

If you're hosting a Brawl+ tourney, you can get suggestions from the threads in GBD.
This, pretty much. Brawl+ is a whole new animal. If you wanna host a Brawl+ tourney, go ahead, but be sure to announce it so everyone knows.
 

AlphaZealot

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Sigh.

I'm absolutely against this, along with all hacks, as becoming the standard.

Why?

First is the very nature of hacks. It's simply to much power. If every single one of us could be the developer of any game we were handed then you bet your *** we would all improve it in ways we see fit. If we had the same tools in Melee back in 2006 that we have in Brawl I bet we would see a bunch of topics like:
Lets make is so Pichu doesn't damage himself!
Lets make is so Sheik can't CG half the cast by messing with the weight/knockback of the game!
Lets make is so the Ice Climbers can't wobble!
Lets cut the frames of all of Bowser's moves in half!

Any game every made in the history of the entire planet can be made better/different. Hacking a game isn't saying that the previous game sucked, its simply admitting that anything can be improved. Halo 1 could be made better with hacks. Melee could be made better with hacks. I'm sure someone could find something stupid about FF7 and hack the game to make it better. However, the problem is, if you actually do make your game better/different, you have to find a way to get not just hundreds, or thousands, but instead millions of people to play it.

Brawl has globally sold 8 million copies. That is a lot. Any single person who buys a copy of Brawl can look up the rules and in an instant be able to practice/play in a tournament. The same cannot be said of hacked Brawl.

It goes beyond that though-in order for competitive Brawl to be viable/interesting to the casual players (to attract new players) we need to be playing a game they can easily access. On top of this though, in order for the Brawl community to be attractive to sponsors (even Nintendo) and leagues (MLG) we need to be using the original game-not a hacked version (this should be for obvious reasons-including image and legal).

Finally, once you start hacking something its hard to say where to stop. As I said in first paragraph it is to much power. It is easily possible, and is already starting to happen, where there are competing hacks and people disagreeing on things like hit-stun (OMG HOW MUCH DO WE WANT!). It doesn't end with disagreement though, its entirelly possible that, after hacking the game, you discover that something you did actually made the game WORSE, then suddenly you have a problem on your hand-do you hack the game more to undo this new problem, or do you remove the previous hack? This problem is coupled with the fact that, at large, there are only a few people (less than 50-100) that actually have hacked Wii's, meaning that the chance of actually looking deep into the hacked game and how everything is changed will take a long time. It took 8 months for people to find Diddy Kong's single nana lock. 8 million copies sold and it took 8 months to find something as simply as short hop + down on the C-stick twice.

In relation to just the PT hack: its a buff. It is clearly a buff. PT is ONE character. Not 3 characters-allowing someone to just play the best Pokemon in any given match up, instead of having to use all three Pokemon, is a buff. It's that simple. The Pokemon Trainer was designed to be a hard character to use, and among those designs was a rather intricate stamina/switch out system. To be good with the Pokemon Trainer is to be good with ALL three Pokemon and to understand and utilize this system as best as possible. Hacking the game to remove this system + make it so you can just be one Pokemon the entire time effectively introduces 3 new characters into the game.

If I show up at a tournament and someone says I have to play a PT on a hacked Wii I'll simply say hell no and make them play the normal PT on a regular Wii. Players should not have to hack their systems to accommodate the people who aren't happy with the game/their characters. If hacked PT's are allowed in tournament then I'll have no choice but to hack my Wii at home so I can train against hacked PT.

Yea...basically there are a ton of problems. The question isn't as simple as: does this make the game better. As I said earlier, you can do something to any game ever made in history to make that game better. The question is: can you, should you, and if you do will 8 million people follow suite?
===
I C/P'd that from another topic.

If you are holding a Brawl tournament then have no hacks at all.

If you are holding a Brawl + or a Brawl 2.0 or a Brawl whatever, then go ahead and use hacks, just don't expect the same turnout. 99% of people who play Brawl don't have a hacked Wii (I've never met a single person in tournament who has a hacked Wii).
 

metaXzero

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AZ. He's not arguing for hacks being the standard. Was that copy-pasta wall really neccessary?

On-topic: Basically you're best running a Brawl+ tourney if you're going to use hacks.
 

Oracle

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I think pt no switch is unnecessary, but no stamina is good.

Brawl isn't very competitive. Brawl+ is. Do you want to attract fewer, more competitive players, or a bunch of scrubs?
 

metaXzero

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I think pt no switch is unnecessary, but no stamina is good.

Brawl isn't very competitive. Brawl+ is. Do you want to attract fewer, more competitive players, or a bunch of scrubs?
Using no fatigue is a buff to a character. Unless you're going to buff other characters, its not advisable to use.
 

AlphaZealot

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Brawl isn't very competitive. Brawl+ is. Do you want to attract fewer, more competitive players, or a bunch of scrubs?
You don't know what you are talking about.

100 people playing Brawl + is not going to be more competitive then the couple thousand that play Brawl. Sorry, you can only advance a metagame so far with so few people.

It is sorta like how Forward and I entered an All Brawl tournament and took 1st/2nd-the players who regularly played AllBrawl with a very small amount of people were simply not on our level. They may have known more about items, but we knew how to actually play better, and not just a little better, but tons better because we play tons of different competition.
 

AlphaZealot

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I don't care if there are Brawl + tournaments, I have nothing against that. The question was asked if hacks should be used in a Brawl tournament, I said no, because adding the hacks makes it a Brawl + tournament.

The other poster randomly decided to attack Brawl-so I responded in kind.

The first post I made was simply a C/P of a post I made in a different thread-I figured the OP wouldn't mind seeing all the information.
 

DemonFart

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chrashic you mean hacks like brawl+ right? if we are gonna use a hack its gonna be to play as wario man and giga bowser on target smash level one.
 

CRASHiC

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Alright, I've read the arguments full, and I've decided to keep my position on no hacks in Brawl for my tournament, regardless on how much more competitive removing something as small as tripping might be. Alhpa has reassured all of my former thoughts. Thank you so much for your time.
 
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