Greninja's True Combos

[MartinAW4]

@ Marilink
If they do not bounce on the ground after the Uair spike, they only get pulled down and placed on the ground which allows them to dodge instantly. And there`s also the problem that if they`re at low %, they receive less hitstun, which is already very low even at high % and since they are not in the air, you are forced to hit them with the side of your Usmash which hits much slower.
Because of that, the Uair spike -> Usmash combo only starts working at 68% against Sheik when she starts bouncing.

@ Blade Knight
As far as I know the Uthrow -> Usmash unfortunately is not a true combo. It was one of the first combos I really wanted to make work because you could do Uthrow -> Usmash -> Usmash -> Uair for 52% against heavy characters, but I couldn`t find any character it would truly combo against.

The Substitute combo also wasn`t true for the reasons listed at the top of this post because Captain Falcon wasn`t at high enough % for the Uair spike -> Utilt to be a true combo.

And I`m not sure whether Usmash comboes into Utilt in your 2. combo either. I know Utilt does combo into Usmash, but I haven`t tried it the other way around, so I will tell you once I test it. Also, is it a sweetspot or sourspot Usmash?

@Tubesock00
I`m glad you like it.

 

[Blade Knight]

I'll double check if it was sweet or sourspot for you as soon as I can.

I should have specified, the up air didn't spike at all, he was still in hitstun midair, and the autocancel I got allowed Up tilt to come out fast enough for it to (seemingly) combo, either way the reach on up tilt is good enough even if he had jumped it'd have tapped him anyway I'm pretty sure.

At times like this I wish I had a recording device so we could go over this in more detail.

 

[MartinAW4]

Wow, you`re right, at around 30% Utilt truly comboes into a cancelled Uair. This means that even Uair spike -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair should be possible. I`ll do some more testing.

Edit: Alright I just got the Uair spike -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair combo to work. It was 13 hits and dealt 38%. I`ll try the other combos now.

Edit 2: I tested Uthrow -> Usmash and Usmash -> Utilt at 0% and none of them seem to be a true combo. However the Uair spike -> Utilt works at every % from 0-999% and isn`t even techable below 68%. So your downwards Substitute -> Uair spike -> Utilt -> Uair combo could have been a true combo, but it`s hard to test against the AI. I`ll definitely add at least the Uair spike -> Utilt combo though.

 

[Blade Knight]

In response to the Up Smash being a sweetspot or not, it dealt 15% damage and the second hit didn't launch my opponent hardly at all. He may have been DIing/Vectoring downwards. Either way he was still in hitstun when the uptilt connected.

 

[Jmacz]

So I know this isn't a combo, but this may classify as a useful string as I've been able to hit this a few times today after practicing combos in training for the last few days.

Sweetspot Nair->Jab->Dash Attack->Fair/Uair

It only works if they don't jump out of the jab and you can tech chase (I think that's what it's called) them into the second part of the string. It's also pretty easy to set up a Hydro Pump if you finish with a Fair.

Btw this and Raykz thread have been the two most useful threads on this forum for me so far so thanks a lot for this.

 

[MartinAW4]

In response to the Up Smash being a sweetspot or not, it dealt 15% damage and the second hit didn't launch my opponent hardly at all. He may have been DIing/Vectoring downwards. Either way he was still in hitstun when the uptilt connected.

If you landed 2 hits, that means it was a sweetspot Usmash, but since you only dealt 15%, it must have been really decayed which is not surprising seeing as it is in my opinion the best smash attack in the game. The move decay could explain why you barely launched him and could have caused the Usmash -> Utilt to become a true combo, but unfortunately since there is no move decay in training mode, there`s no way to test whether it was a true combo or not.

@ Jmacz
Yeah, I love using that string too. Sometimes you can even add an Usmash -> Uair after the Dash Attack -> Fair if the opponent DIs down, but this is more of a succession of 3 separate true combos than a string, which is why I didn`t list it in the useful strings section.

And I`m glad you find this thread useful, it turned out better than I thought it would and I`ve learned many new combos myself thanks to all the helpful posts from you guys.

 

[MartinAW4]

I just tested the Dtilt -> Usmash string and it turns out that it is a true combo even against Sheik between 60-120%. The trick is to perform the Dtilt as close to the opponent as possible. You have to be standing right in the middle of him when using the Dtilt which will send him right above you (instead of sideways) into perfect position for an Usmash follow up.

Of course in a real match this won`t be possible very often, but even if you hit the Dtilt normally and follow the opponent with a hyphen-Usmash, he seems to be unable to dodge despite it not being a true combo according to the combo counter.
What makes this combo so great is that it seems to be impossible to avoid even with good DI, which makes it the most reliable way to combo into an Usmash KO once the opponent reaches around 90%.

Edit: I also added Dtilt -> Uair/Fair/Nair combos which start working when the Dtilt -> Usmash combo stops working and replace it as a reliable kill option at 120+%.

 

[jabronni]

sweetspot nair -> nair

This was working at around 55-59% against sheik dealing 22% damage. I am trying to string an uair afterwards but i doubt it works.

 

[Spirst]

Though not registered as a true combo, one string I like to do is a sweetspot nair ->utilt->usmash. If they don't react quickly enough to the utilt, you can follow them with another SH nair->utilt. The former does around 34% and works if the other player is at 10% or below. The latter does 50%.

 

[MartinAW4]

Though not registered as a true combo, one string I like to do is a sweetspot nair ->utilt->usmash. If they don't react quickly enough to the utilt, you can follow them with another SH nair->utilt. The former does around 34% and works if the other player is at 10% or below. The latter does 50%.

That actually is a true combo at the right % and you can even add Uair at the end. TehSharpie tested the Nair -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair combo vs ZSS at 11% and I verified that it really does work and even got it to work against Sheik at 14%. I just need to test it more before I add it to the OP since I still need to find the whole interval during which it works. But considering how hard it is to perform the combo, it is taking more time than expected.

@ jabronni
You`re right, the Nair -> Nair combo does work. I`ll try to find the whole interval during which it works and maybe even add an Uair at the end if possible.

 

[Spirst]

That actually is a true combo at the right % and you can even add Uair at the end. TehSharpie tested the Nair -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair combo vs ZSS at 11% and I verified that it really does work and even got it to work against Sheik at 14%. I just need to test it more before I add it to the OP since I still need to find the whole interval during which it works. But considering how hard it is to perform the combo, it is taking more time than expected.

@ jabronni
You`re right, the Nair -> Nair combo does work. I`ll try to find the whole interval during which it works and maybe even add an Uair at the end if possible.

Hmm, it didn't register as a true combo in my testing against Sheik. It isn't very hard to execute though provided you have quick fingers.

 

[DigitalAtom6]

I also came up with a short one: Dtilt --> dash attack
You can string the dash attack into the dash attack --> Fair combo you already posted, so it's a nice three hit. It only works at 0-40% and deals 28% damage. It looks like DI won't help with this one, though it can be powershielded.

Bthrow --> dash attack --> Fair working until 30% dealing 29%. So you can use it twice from exactly 0%. Opponent can jump out of it.
Dtilt --> Ftilt dealing 13% and working until 40% works, though at the higher side of that range the opponent can probably DI out of it, Dtilt --> Fsmash dealing 21% and working until 40%, can be DI'd out of at the higher range.

Note: tested on Mario and the last two combo's only work at close range Dtilt, so you'll have to be in grab range.

I don't know how reliable these are, so I'll let more people test it and see what they think.

 

[MartinAW4]

Hmm, it didn't register as a true combo in my testing against Sheik. It isn't very hard to execute though provided you have quick fingers.

Speed is not the problem, the Nair knockback is. I`m having trouble with the Nair -> Utilt part because I can`t get the Nair to consistently launch the opponent into the Utilt so that the Utilt sends them right above me for the Usmash follow up. I only land about 1 in 3 Nair -> Utilts correctly and only about 1 in 10 are true combos. The only thing I noticed which helped a little was that it works better if you perform Nair from a dash and try to land it on the middle of the opponent.
Do you have any other tips how to perform the Nair -> Utilt part more reliably?

 

[MartinAW4]

I also came up with a short one: Dtilt --> dash attack
You can string the dash attack into the dash attack --> Fair combo you already posted, so it's a nice three hit. It only works at 0-40% and deals 28% damage. It looks like DI won't help with this one, though it can be powershielded.

Bthrow --> dash attack --> Fair working until 30% dealing 29%. So you can use it twice from exactly 0%. Opponent can jump out of it.
Dtilt --> Ftilt dealing 13% and working until 40% works, though at the higher side of that range the opponent can probably DI out of it, Dtilt --> Fsmash dealing 21% and working until 40%, can be DI'd out of at the higher range.

Note: tested on Mario and the last two combo's only work at close range Dtilt, so you'll have to be in grab range.

I don't know how reliable these are, so I'll let more people test it and see what they think.

Those are some of my favorite strings (especially the Dtilt -> Dash Attack -> Fair string) but unfortunately none of those are true combos as far as I know. Dtilt has such low hitstun, that even moves that combo out of almost anything like Uair need to be performed very fast and at high % in order to truly combo out of it. That`s why slower moves like Ftilt and Fsmash cannot combo from Dtilt.
To determine whether a string is a true combo, you need to look at the combo counter in the upper right corner of training mode matches. If it shows the number of hits you performed in the string then it was a true combo but if it only shows 1, then it was just a string.

 

[Spirst]

Speed is not the problem, the Nair knockback is. I`m having trouble with the Nair -> Utilt part because I can`t get the Nair to consistently launch the opponent into the Utilt so that the Utilt sends them right above me for the Usmash follow up. I only land about 1 in 3 Nair -> Utilts correctly and only about 1 in 10 are true combos. The only thing I noticed which helped a little was that it works better if you perform Nair from a dash and try to land it on the middle of the opponent.
Do you have any other tips how to perform the Nair -> Utilt part more reliably?

Doing the SH nair from a dash is how I do it. Otherwise, the follow-up is harder. Doing a SH nair without any horizontal movement places them outside of the hitbox for the utilt. If the utilt sends them to the left or right, you can input a hyphen usmash to follow.

 

[TehSharpie]

That actually is a true combo at the right % and you can even add Uair at the end. TehSharpie tested the Nair -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair combo vs ZSS at 11% and I verified that it really does work and even got it to work against Sheik at 14%. I just need to test it more before I add it to the OP since I still need to find the whole interval during which it works. But considering how hard it is to perform the combo, it is taking more time than expected.

It actually works on most characters from 11-17%. With a few exceptions like certain floater characters (Samus). Another exception being D3, where I was actually able to perform the full combo past 20%. But oddly enough, I couldn't pull it off on Bowser at any % to save my life ._.

 

[MartinAW4]

It actually works on most characters from 11-17%. With a few exceptions like certain floater characters (Samus). Another exception being D3, where I was actually able to perform the full combo past 20%. But oddly enough, I couldn't pull it off on Bowser at any % to save my life ._.

I just finished testing it against Sheik and it works from 6% to 24%. At 5% or lower Nair -> Utilt doesn`t seem to be a true combo and above 24%, Sheik gets sent too high by the Utilt for the Usmash to combo.

 

[TehSharpie]

I'm having trouble landing the meteor Dair -> Uair spike -> Usmash combo. Once I land the Dair im unable to follow up with the Uair. Is there any way you could upload a video of the combo?

EDIT: never mind. Didn't know you could pull it off while your opponent was on the ground lol.

 

[Marilink]

Have you ever done any true combo testing with Shifting Shuriken, @ MartinAW4 ? It's my favorite WS custom, and I think it has a lot of potential to combo into Utilts and Smashes.

 

[MartinAW4]

Have you ever done any true combo testing with Shifting Shuriken, @ MartinAW4 ? It's my favorite WS custom, and I think it has a lot of potential to combo into Utilts and Smashes.

That`s a good idea. I know it truly combos into Usmash, but I haven`t tested the % or other possible moves it could combo into. I`ll test it tomorrow evening.

 

[Lavani]

A note about Shifting Shuriken, the launch angle on the charged version seems to be based on the opponent's distance from you when it hits. For example, at 150% you can do long range charged Shifting>usmash, but if you do it close range the shuriken launches too high for usmash to connect; however, the hitstun on this thing is ridiculous and you can easily go into uair, nair, fair, whatever. This property's going to make it kind of awkward to determine proper percent ranges since everything will be distance related too, but the hitstun pretty much ensures you have a followup of some sort at any reasonable percent (max range charged Shifting>sourspot usmash combos even at 0%, though it's fairly precise).

 

[MartinAW4]

A note about Shifting Shuriken, the launch angle on the charged version seems to be based on the opponent's distance from you when it hits. For example, at 150% you can do long range charged Shifting>usmash, but if you do it close range the shuriken launches too high for usmash to connect; however, the hitstun on this thing is ridiculous and you can easily go into uair, nair, fair, whatever. This property's going to make it kind of awkward to determine proper percent ranges since everything will be distance related too, but the hitstun pretty much ensures you have a followup of some sort at any reasonable percent (max range charged Shifting>sourspot usmash combos even at 0%, though it's fairly precise).

Thanks for the tips. I`m not sure yet whether I should specify the range from which the shuriken has to be thrown in order to combo or just list the % range at which it does. If it`s something simple like close range at 0-80% and long range at 80+% then I`ll specify the range, but if the shuriken has to be thrown from a very specific range which varies slightly every 10-20%, then I probably won`t mention range at all.

 

[Lavani]

More stuff:

Utilt -> Fair 50-120% 18%
Utilt -> Nair 35-140% 15%
Utilt -> Bair 5-135% 14%
uncharged Shifting Shuriken -> Shadow Sneak 0-295% 13-15%
charged Shifting Shuriken -> Grab 0-25%?

Shifting -> Grab seems inconsistent, I think the AI's DIing out of it occasionally at higher percents. Something else I just noticed isn't listed, uair -> uair works at lower percents, though the timing on the double jump is weird and I don't think the second uair will ever hit fully.

Messed with Shadow Dash a bit but didn't find any combos to utilize it in.

 

[Funkermonster]

How to connect into Usmash from a Charged Shuriken? I see it up there as an important combo and another Greninja used it against me once in a ditto, but I couldn't pull it off myself.

 

[MartinAW4]

@ Lavani
Great job testing all those combos. I probably wouldn`t have thought of the uncharged Shifting Shuriken -> Shadow Sneak combo. I`ll verify the % ranges and add them to the list.

@ Funkermonster
To connect the Usmash into charged WS, you have to throw the WS from up close (at around grab range), then immediately run after the opponent who is carried by the WS (which is slower than your dash) and once you reach him, perform the Usmash.

 

[MartinAW4]

I added all of Lavani`s combos to the list with slight modifications of the % range on some of the combos.

And just as Lavani said, charged Shifting Shuriken behaves differently depending on your distance from the opponent when it connects (if you are close to the opponent, they will be launched higher and closer, while if you are far from them, they will be launched lower and farther as if they were always attracted to your current position).
What this allows us to do is run (or walk) away a few steps from the opponent after throwing the charged SS and dash back towards them immediately after the charged SS hits. This will cause them to be launched farther and closer to the ground than a max range charged SS which allows us to do the charged SS -> Grab combo up to around 140%.

Another thing I noticed is that since the charged SS pierces through opponents, sometimes it hits twice along the way through them, causing a stronger attraction that sends them flying slightly farther and closer to the ground than a single hit. This usually happens when you hit the opponent from max range.

Edit:
I tested the Uair -> Uair combo. It works from 0-90% and you can land all 12 hits for 19% damage. However it works differently between 0-20% and 21-90%.
0-20%: You simply Uair, jump immediately and Uair again.
21-90%: You have to end the first Uair as close to the ground as possible, so that you land immediately after launching your opponent into the air with the last Uair hit. This allows you to jump after them as soon as you launch them which gives you enough time to land the second Uair. However they can easily escape if they DI to the right or left.

I also added a Notes section where I explain how to perform some of the more complicated combos.

 

[Funkermonster]

Sometimes I like to use Dtilt > (angled up) Filt at around 0-40%. Not really a true combo and is pretty short-lived, but I like to use it as a GTFO string when I'm being pressured.

 

[MartinAW4]

Today I finished testing most of my planned Shifting Shuriken combos. It is probably Greninja`s best combo move since it combos into almost everything. If you land one of them, whether charged or uncharged, at 100+% you`re basically guaranteed a kill.

It is so good that it even combos into itself. You can do charged SS -> uncharged SS -> any aerial attack you want as long as you throw the shurikens from a slightly higher position. On an FD version stage this can happen when the opponent is off stage and you manage to hit them with a charged SS. Of course it is not very practical but it is interesting that it works.

At first I wasn`t sure whether Shifting Shuriken was better than the standard version, but after playing around with it, I think it will be Greninja`s best neutral special in most matchups. Aside from the great combo potential, the deciding factor for me was the fact that charged SS has the same piercing and uncancellable properties as the standard fully charged Water Shuriken, but charges faster and combos into kill moves.

However despite there being so many ways to combo out of SS, the charged SS -> Usmash is so strong and easy to perform that you`ll almost never need to use any other combo.

@ Funkermonster
I prefer to use Dash Attack after Dtilt because it allows you to combo into Fair and possibly catch the opponent with an Uair spike since you usually end up in a perfect position for an Uair when you land the Fair.
Overall I think Ftilt is Greninja`s worst tilt and one of his worst moves because it is weak, nothing combos from it and it is punishable if you hit a shield. The only good thing about it is its range, so it has its uses, but usually there is a better move for the job.

 

[Marilink]

Guys, Shifting Shuriken is so good. What @ MartinAW4 said about SS > Upsmash is so true. And the hitstun is eternal. Check it.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

SH Nair > Utilt > Usmash > SHFF Uair (vector spike) > Utilt > Uair works on heavy weights.

 

[MartinAW4]

SH Nair > Utilt > Usmash > SHFF Uair (vector spike) > Utilt > Uair works on heavy weights.

This is it! SHFF Uair spike is the missing link I`ve been hoping to find from the start. This is what allows us to do the craziest combos. For example just now against King Dedede at 10% I did:
sweetspot Nair -> Utilt -> SHFF Uair spike -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair
That`s an 18 hit true combo for 74 damage. And you could possibly make the final Uair spike as well and chain another Usmash and Uair for a total of 99 damage. If this works, that could be a 0-death combo.

It`s getting late and I have to get up very early in the morning, so I`m going to bed, but I`m definitely going to do a lot of testing tomorrow.

 

[Marilink]

I just have the hardest time doing U-air spike in general, especially from a Short Hop. I find it incredibly difficult to do the Uair input without Tap-Jumping instead. Do you guys turn Tap Jump off altogether?

 

[MartinAW4]

I just have the hardest time doing U-air spike in general, especially from a Short Hop. I find it incredibly difficult to do the Uair input without Tap-Jumping instead. Do you guys turn Tap Jump off altogether?

Yes, I have it turned off. I don`t see a reason not to.

 

[Marilink]

I guess I never really considered it as a possibility. I just turned it off and got a Uair spike > Usmash in my first game. Don't know why I didn't do that sooner!

 

[Marilink]

Ok, so I actually did find a downside to turning Tap Jump off. If you turn it off, you are no longer able to Up-Smash out of Shield. =/

I think U-Air spiking is worth that price, but it does stink a little

 

[Shanoa]

Thanks for this useful thread.

I was fooling around and found out that you can barely combo Sheik from 0% with Fully Charged WS -> UThrow -> USmash -> UAir. It does a crazy 45% Damage.

 

[MartinAW4]

Ok, so I actually did find a downside to turning Tap Jump off. If you turn it off, you are no longer able to Up-Smash out of Shield. =/

I think U-Air spiking is worth that price, but it does stink a little

You can still do it, it`s just a bit harder. You just have to quickly press the jump button before Up + Attack button. I jump with X and attack with A, so I just quickly swipe my finger across both buttons starting with X and it works very reliably.
And if you`re in a situation where you don`t want to risk messing up and jumping instead of Usmash, Shield drop -> Usmash is almost as fast as Usmash out of shield anyway.

@ Shanoa
That would be amazing if it worked, but are you sure the Uthrow -> Usmash part truly comboes? Remember that sweetspot Usmash is a 2-hit move so after Uthrow -> Usmash the combo counter has to show 3 hits and 24 damage if it`s a true combo.

 

[Shanoa]

You can still do it, it`s just a bit harder. You just have to quickly press the jump button before Up + Attack button. I jump with X and attack with A, so I just quickly swipe my finger across both buttons starting with X and it works very reliably.
And if you`re in a situation where you don`t want to risk messing up and jumping instead of Usmash, Shield drop -> Usmash is almost as fast as Usmash out of shield anyway.

@ Shanoa
That would be amazing if it worked, but are you sure the Uthrow -> Usmash part truly comboes? Remember that sweetspot Usmash is a 2-hit move so after Uthrow -> Usmash the combo counter has to show 3 hits and 24 damage if it`s a true combo.

It might not work because somebody I fought escaped a normal UThrow to USmash with a double jump. I'm going to check right now.

And oh man, Greninja is pretty awesome. These combos hurt and his kill moves hit like truck. I had Sheik as the character I used the most out of the two, but my #1 main got 2-1'd in a tournament by the tourney winner who made good use of his combos and IASA's/Shadow Sneak cancels. I learned that this character is pretty beastly and that he fits my playstyle. But damn, the Greninja boards have extremely useful threads like this one so the shift is pretty good.

Edit: Nope, it doesn't combo because you get a small amount of frames to escape, and apparently Uthrow to Sweetspot USmash does not true combo Sheik at any %'s, so it's just that string in general.

 

[MartinAW4]

I added the Uthrow -> Bair combo which works at 5-85% and deals 14 damage and I corrected the Uthrow -> Uair range to 13-100% instead of 17-65%, so it becomes a kill combo starting at around 85% or possibly less when fresh and with rage.
Unfortunately so far it seems that you cannot combo any move into Greninja`s other throws and Uthrow doesn`t combo into Nair or Fair either. So overall, Greninja`s throws aren`t that great but its best throw is definitely Uthrow (which even kills by itself at 175% or even around 140% with rage) followed by Bthrow, Dthrow and Fthrow last.

I`m also testing combos involving SHFF Uair spike like Uthrow -> Uair spike -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair which deals 44 damage but it only seems to work at 25% and is extremely difficult to perform even at 1/4 speed. In order for it to work your opponent cannot DI and you have to be almost frame perfect, so it definitely won`t be used in real matches.

It might not work because somebody I fought escaped a normal UThrow to USmash with a double jump. I'm going to check right now.

And oh man, Greninja is pretty awesome. These combos hurt and his kill moves hit like truck. I had Sheik as the character I used the most out of the two, but my #1 main got 2-1'd in a tournament by the tourney winner who made good use of his combos and IASA's/Shadow Sneak cancels. I learned that this character is pretty beastly and that he fits my playstyle. But damn, the Greninja boards have extremely useful threads like this one so the shift is pretty good.

Edit: Nope, it doesn't combo because you get a small amount of frames to escape, and apparently Uthrow to Sweetspot USmash does not true combo Sheik at any %'s, so it's just that string in general.

I`m glad you find this thread helpful, but the Sheik boards have a similar thread as well which focuses mainly on advanced techniques and also lists the most common Sheik combos.

I also use both characters and both have their advantages. Since they have the same movement speed so the only difference is in their moves:
Sheik has a better Ftilt, Fair, Nair, Down Special, Grab, Pummel, Dthrow and Fthrow
Greninja has better Smashes (especially Usmash), Up special, Uair, Dtilt, Uthrow and Bthrow
So I think Sheik has a better air and grab game, while Greninja has a better ground game and kill moves. Overall I prefer Greninja, but in some matchups I like Sheik better.

And yeah, Uthrow -> Usmash unfortunately does not truly combo, but if you manage to land a sweetspot Usmash after an Uthrow at 0% you can do Uthrow -> Usmash -> Usmash -> Uair for 52% damage.

 

[Shanoa]

I added the Uthrow -> Bair combo which works at 5-85% and deals 14 damage and I corrected the Uthrow -> Uair range to 13-100% instead of 17-65%, so it becomes a kill combo starting at around 85% or possibly less when fresh and with rage.
Unfortunately so far it seems that you cannot combo any move into Greninja`s other throws and Uthrow doesn`t combo into Nair or Fair either. So overall, Greninja`s throws aren`t that great but its best throw is definitely Uthrow (which even kills by itself at 175% or even around 140% with rage) followed by Bthrow, Dthrow and Fthrow last.

I`m also testing combos involving SHFF Uair spike like Uthrow -> Uair spike -> Utilt -> Usmash -> Uair which deals 44 damage but it only seems to work at 25% and is extremely difficult to perform even at 1/4 speed. In order for it to work your opponent cannot DI and you have to be almost frame perfect, so it definitely won`t be used in real matches.


I`m glad you find this thread helpful, but the Sheik boards have a similar thread as well which focuses mainly on advanced techniques and also lists the most common Sheik combos.

I also use both characters and both have their advantages. Since they have the same movement speed so the only difference is in their moves:
Sheik has a better Ftilt, Fair, Nair, Down Special, Grab, Pummel, Dthrow and Fthrow
Greninja has better Smashes (especially Usmash), Up special, Uair, Dtilt, Uthrow and Bthrow
So I think Sheik has a better air and grab game, while Greninja has a better ground game and kill moves. Overall I prefer Greninja, but in some matchups I like Sheik better.

And yeah, Uthrow -> Usmash unfortunately does not truly combo, but if you manage to land a sweetspot Usmash after an Uthrow at 0% you can do Uthrow -> Usmash -> Usmash -> Uair for 52% damage.

Yeah, they are both different flavours. I'm just enjoying Greninja's the most because I learned just how much priority and range he has. Greninja kills pretty early, so I think he is pretty crazy.

I'll contribute what I find here as I play around with some of his follow ups. Thanks!