Greninja: My opinions, strategies, tips, tricks and advanced techniques

[Sosuke]

it's a dacus

wait until the wiiu version to be able to do it

 

[Spirst]

Though if you're really eager, go mod the 3DS to use a GC controller.

Edit: No, I don't actually condone this. Nor have I done it myself. Too much work.

 

[bajisci]

Though if you're really eager, go mod the 3DS to use a GC controller.

Edit: No, I don't actually condone this. Nor have I done it myself. Too much work.

Or import the New 3DS if you have money to burn.

 

[Linkdude74]

Just a quick question, any update on when we'll get section 5?

 

[Chiroz]

Just a quick question, any update on when we'll get section 5?

Honestly I have been playing so much I haven't actually sat down to write it. I guess I can take some time tomorrow or sunday to write it down. Expect more detailed information as I have had so much more time to actually play Greninja and check how he fares against many characters in the game.

 

[Linkdude74]

Honestly I have been playing so much I haven't actually sat down to write it. I guess I can take some time tomorrow or sunday to write it down. Expect more detailed information as I have had so much more time to actually play Greninja and check how he fares against many characters in the game.

Thanks for the update man. I've found a lot of what you've already written very useful for improving my Greninja play. You've done an awesome job on this.

 

[Geou]

Honestly I have been playing so much I haven't actually sat down to write it. I guess I can take some time tomorrow or sunday to write it down. Expect more detailed information as I have had so much more time to actually play Greninja and check how he fares against many characters in the game.

Funny enough, I started reading this guide the other day to work on my Greninja. So I head to For Glory to practice, and I run into a Greninja a level beyond the others I've played. Imagine my surprise when I look at the player's name, look at the guide writer's name, and they're one and the same.

Fun matches man, appreciate the guide, appreciate what I learned from your Greninja even more.

 

[Chiroz]

Funny enough, I started reading this guide the other day to work on my Greninja. So I head to For Glory to practice, and I run into a Greninja a level beyond the others I've played. Imagine my surprise when I look at the player's name, look at the guide writer's name, and they're one and the same.

Fun matches man, appreciate the guide, appreciate what I learned from your Greninja even more.

If I remember correctly your Fox and Captain Falcon were pretty good. I think you were the last guy I fought yesterday. I had been playing for way too long just trying to practice for a tourney that was today, I was extremely tired and I couldn't keep up specially when you picked faster characters, my eyes were closing by themselves on me and my thought process was a mess hahahahah.

We had some really good games though, I really enjoyed playing you and it's why I stayed. I tried taunting in the very last match right before it ended and I left to tell you "good games". I figured it's the only way to get a message out since we can't type, lol. Don't know if you noticed that taunt.



I tied for 4th/5th in a 60 person tournament at SoCal with big names like Tyrant, M2K, Xzaz, etc. I feel accomplished today .

 

[TheXxERRORxx]

I'm too lazy to check, but if Greninja's counter is activated in the air, does it put him in a free fall state?

 

[smartguyc1089]

I don't think so, correct me if i'm wrong

 

[Chumi]

I'm too lazy to check, but if Greninja's counter is activated in the air, does it put him in a free fall state?

I don't think so, correct me if i'm wrong

It does not however there is tons of lag afterwards

 

[Linkdude74]

Anyone have tips for against Sheik?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Anyone have tips for against Sheik?

I would say you just gotta outplay her. Dunno. Her needles seem a tiny bit better than our shurikens; I think they might be able to be thrown quicker. Other than that, they seem to be on pretty level playing fields, in my opinion. Though, I haven't fought too many Shieks, so some more input would probably be good.

 

[Spirst]

I would say you just gotta outplay her. Dunno. Her needles seem a tiny bit better than our shurikens; I think they might be able to be thrown quicker. Other than that, they seem to be on pretty level playing fields, in my opinion. Though, I haven't fought too many Shieks, so some more input would probably be good.

Yep, they can be thrown quicker and go through the shurikens. I've played vs Sheik really often and I say that this is a really fast-paced even-feeling matchup. Be mindful of her ftilt chains and her dthrow-fair/nair follow-ups. You have to react and follow through with your set-ups really quickly on this one. Later on, I'll post some Sheik vs Greninja videos I have.

 

[PadWarrior]

Good gravy I have a hard time grabbing and doing follow up combos with Greninja the last few matches I've played online Really wanna be good with him but it doesn't seem to be working out.

 

[Choice]

Going back to the dacus in question, does anyone know if it's been proven whether you can bdacus in smash4?

 

[fill]

Going back to the dacus in question, does anyone know if it's been proven whether you can bdacus in smash4?

yup GimR has a video on it, he used the GC mod tho

 

[Choice]

yup GimR has a video on it, he used the GC mod tho

This video shows dacus not bdacus (buffered dacus). In brawl you would do this by buffering the dacus - forward + c-stick up -> c-stick up or forward + c-stick down -> c-stick up. So the question is more along the lines of whether you can queue up this many inputs in smash 4

 

[fill]

This video shows dacus not bdacus (buffered dacus). In brawl you would do this by buffering the dacus - forward + c-stick up -> c-stick up or forward + c-stick down -> c-stick up. So the question is more along the lines of whether you can queue up this many inputs in smash 4

didn't even see the "b", probably gonna have to wait for the wii u version, hopefully they give us a demo announcement thursday

 

[RanserSSF4]

One thing I did discover just, just in case you or some didn't know, is that after you use Down Special (Counter) and hold up, you can combo into Uair (If they don't vector) or Bair/Fair (If they vector) and you can kill pretty early this way (it's also good for recovering). This strategy/combo is risky, but very rewarding.

This combo requires not only guessing, but you also need to make sure your opponent is at a certain % range (From when it starts to kill to the highest % until it stops working and only the counter can kill) and you need to make sure what character you're playing against. Here's some examples of weights, %, and characters I tested:

NOTE: The "+" symbol indicates at when the combo will stop working and only the counter from now on will kill.

Light Weights: Jigglypuff, Kirby, and Pikachu

Earliest % to Highest %: 60% to 90%+

Medium Weights (Including Fast Fallers): Fox, Mario, Link, and Lucario

Earliest % to Highest %: 70% or 75% to 100%+

Heavy Weights: Bowser, Ganondorf, Donkey Kong, Charizard, and King Dedede

Earliest % to highest %: 85% to 115%+

The opponent can try to vector, but it doesn't matter, because the counter deals so much hitstun, you can still combo into any other move afterwards when you see where the opponent goes.

Even if your opponent uses a non-lagging move after they hit you, the counter is safe since you fly past the opponent very fast. Even power-shielding grab doesn't work. It's also good to catch them rolling by either holding left or right, depending on where they roll.

There are however, some cons to this combo:
- Requires precise guessing/reaction
- Opponent must be at certain %
- Depends on characters and their weight
- If the opponent uses any attack that makes them slide or dash past greninja, the "UP" input won't hit.
- Greninja won't always track opponents if they are slightly too far away, so it's best to input left or right.

Unfornately, I don't have a video ATM to showcase this, but I can confirm, 100%, that this does in fact work!

 

[Jahordon]

I still don't know how to reliably approach with Greninja, and people are getting good at dealing with Shuriken spamming.

 

[Spirst]

I still don't know how to reliably approach with Greninja, and people are getting good at dealing with Shuriken spamming.

Greninja isn't the best with approaches. Shuriken mix-ups, SH nairs, and SH RAR bairs. Dash attack works sometimes too but isn't amazing. Additionally, you can try empty FF SHs to try and spur a reaction to punish.

 

[zangoosinite]

This is fantastic!

 

[Chiroz]

Mewtwo, I see you my friend. Soon you will be mine.

 

[Chumi]

Mewtwo, I see you my friend. Soon you will be mine.

Don't leave us!

 

[Pnppl Pnch]

Detailed and insightful guide! Greninja is looking mad strong, so I figured it'd be a good idea to become proficient with him.

 

[Chumi]

I'm almost as impatient for this guide as I was for smash release

 

[FullMoon]

Hi, I've seen that there wasn't much that was said about Greninja's Shifting Shuriken custom move (I think it's his third option?) so I just want to talk about my experiences with that move:

It is godly.

The fact that the shuriken thrown by holding the button down pulls the opponent towards you is interesting because it allows you to easily combo (and I'm pretty sure it's a true combo, the hitstun last for quite a bit from my experience) it with a up-smash and then follow up from there. The shuriken goes far enough to keep pressure on the opponent, perhaps even more so that the regular shurikens because getting hit by it usually means you're going to get up-smashed in the face and the damage stacks up quickly.

I also think it's very useful for screwing opponents trying to return to the stage, depending on the % your opponent is at and the spacing, the shuriken will pull the opponent right at you and it can be followed up by a f-smash, making sure the opponent is going to be KO'd

I think through practice and learning how to space with that move, it's going to become Greninja's best way of setting up a kill.

 

[Sosuke]

yeah, that custom is godly

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

The other one popping the opponent up (I think it's the uncharged version that has the low range) is also fairly solid for set-ups as well, albeit the one that pulls to you is even stronger. I'm still not even sure why it does that.

 

[MrFrigid]

I'm in desperate need of strategies against Falco, G&W, and Robin. HELP PLZZZ.

 

[sparkaura]

From my experiences playing tons of greninja, Up-tilt can combo into up air at all percents. Even if they vector, the hit stun of up tilt lets you follow them and up air. I've done it a lot and in training mode it counts as a combo. The only thing is whether to short hop u-air or full/double jump f-air. This depends on the weight of the character and their percent. Anyone else want to do more testing? At this point it seems like a reliable set up for kills.

 

[MartinAW4]

From my experiences playing tons of greninja, Up-tilt can combo into up air at all percents. Even if they vector, the hit stun of up tilt lets you follow them and up air. I've done it a lot and in training mode it counts as a combo. The only thing is whether to short hop u-air or full/double jump f-air. This depends on the weight of the character and their percent. Anyone else want to do more testing? At this point it seems like a reliable set up for kills.

I`ve tested it against Sheik and the Utilt -> Uair combo works from 30% to 160%. You can find most of Greninja`s combos in the Greninja`s True Combos thread.

 

[Reece Neff]

How have your Greninja strategies changed since the new update came?

 

[Spirst]

How have your Greninja strategies changed since the new update came?

His last post was a month ago so I doubt he's been active. Some of this is obsolete now.

 

[ZeroLifeBowser]

This is frustrating,

because I spent time trying to do things that the update removed zzz. Which, I do not understand because they remove things that made Greninja WORTH playing. Now he's just a second rate Sheik with subpar skills and a useless counter. His moves have way too much start up lag AND/or ending lag, his throws are pointless, and the range of his grab/throw is weird that it makes it hard to land.

I've been trying to make him my main but between his DB being useless, his FB being easily punished, and N-B being predictable it makes you rely on tilts which are easy beaten in comparison to other characters. He can't even juggle/combo moves together (unless you do u tilt into u air but lets be honest how f'kin often do you ever land u tilt on someone? hardly ever, and it's not like spamming it is acceptable anyway.

I don't know why they don't fkin update diddy kong's BS down throw to up air spam or how they allow sheik to keep spamming tilts on you calling it a "combo". Same with zero suit samus. It felt like in the past as long as you practiced you could be good with anyone, but now they **** over characters so you have to change your whole approach. Go delete Ness's back throw. It's overpowered as ****.

 

[ZeroLifeBowser]

and now everybody is going to be mad at me because I'm robbed of an experience. I was planning on maining meta knight but they completely pissed in his mailbox and left me with soggy mail. I can't even play decent with him anymore. I guess I should jump on the diddy kong/sheik/zero suit samus band wagon or suffer the repeated spam combos to death.

 

[FullMoon]

This is frustrating,

because I spent time trying to do things that the update removed zzz. Which, I do not understand because they remove things that made Greninja WORTH playing. Now he's just a second rate Sheik with subpar skills and a useless counter. His moves have way too much start up lag AND/or ending lag, his throws are pointless, and the range of his grab/throw is weird that it makes it hard to land.

I've been trying to make him my main but between his DB being useless, his FB being easily punished, and N-B being predictable it makes you rely on tilts which are easy beaten in comparison to other characters. He can't even juggle/combo moves together (unless you do u tilt into u air but lets be honest how f'kin often do you ever land u tilt on someone? hardly ever, and it's not like spamming it is acceptable anyway.

I don't know why they don't fkin update diddy kong's BS down throw to up air spam or how they allow sheik to keep spamming tilts on you calling it a "combo". Same with zero suit samus. It felt like in the past as long as you practiced you could be good with anyone, but now they **** over characters so you have to change your whole approach. Go delete Ness's back throw. It's overpowered as ****.

Yeah you clearly don't have much experience with the character.

Up Throw kills and set-ups combos, Shadow Sneak is supposed to be used mostly for punishes since it had better range than F-Smash and for recovery, while also being an option for gimps. Greninja can juggle characters like crazy if they make bad reads. Greninja has one of the best dash grabs in the game and Substitute is a ridiculously powerful counter with fixed knockback that can kill all but the heaviest characters at less than 100% when aimed upwards and even if you miss the only thing that's going to happen is that you're going to fly out of the opponents range.

Oh, and d-tilt sets up combos, so does N-Air, also F-Air. B-Air is a great gimping tool. Water Shuriken applies tons of pressure if the opponent doesn't have a projectile themselves since it has good range and speed, while also being able to kill or set up combo when charged. Greninja's recovery is even better now that Shadow Sneak has less ending lag and Hydro Pump still gimps.

Greninja certainly has his issues and Sheik is certainly a better character but let's face it, Sheik is better than 95% of the cast anyway.

I swear by next year we're still going to have people complaining about the nerfs, my god.

 

[ZeroLifeBowser]

Yeah you clearly don't have much experience with the character.

Up Throw kills and set-ups combos, Shadow Sneak is supposed to be used mostly for punishes since it had better range than F-Smash and for recovery, while also being an option for gimps. Greninja can juggle characters like crazy if they make bad reads. Greninja has one of the best dash grabs in the game and Substitute is a ridiculously powerful counter with fixed knockback that can kill all but the heaviest characters at less than 100% when aimed upwards and even if you miss the only thing that's going to happen is that you're going to fly out of the opponents range.

Oh, and d-tilt sets up combos, so does N-Air, also F-Air. B-Air is a great gimping tool. Water Shuriken applies tons of pressure if the opponent doesn't have a projectile themselves since it has good range and speed, while also being able to kill or set up combo when charged. Greninja's recovery is even better now that Shadow Sneak has less ending lag and Hydro Pump still gimps.

Greninja certainly has his issues and Sheik is certainly a better character but let's face it, Sheik is better than 95% of the cast anyway.

I swear by next year we're still going to have people complaining about the nerfs, my god.

His F air has WAY too much starting lag, I hardly ever see it land.

Want me to stop complaining? Make a video showing me everything you just said and how it's so good and works great. Up throw is unpredictable due to character size/percentage etc. So you can't really rely on it. His hydro pump doesn't "gimp" anything. Instead of pushing people back or away, it pushes them UP, which is counter productive. His shuriken doesn't stop Lucarios projectile upon contact, it simply lets his go through and you get hit which is mental. Who starts a combo with N air? Its range isn't good for 1 and it's a pain to initiate with an approach like that. Dtilt is a ***** to land, how often do you land it?

 

[FullMoon]

His F air has WAY too much starting lag, I hardly ever see it land.

Want me to stop complaining? Make a video showing me everything you just said and how it's so good and works great. Up throw is unpredictable due to character size/percentage etc. So you can't really rely on it. His hydro pump doesn't "gimp" anything. Instead of pushing people back or away, it pushes them UP, which is counter productive. His shuriken doesn't stop Lucarios projectile upon contact, it simply lets his go through and you get hit which is mental. Who starts a combo with N air? Its range isn't good for 1 and it's a pain to initiate with an approach like that. Dtilt is a ***** to land, how often do you land it?

Hydro Pump doesn't gimp you say. Also pushing enemies up when they're coming back on stage often makes them up-smash bait which is great for getting a kill or just plain doing damage.

Also a lot of projectiles don't stop Aura Sphere, I don't see why Lucario is worth of note like that, you shouldn't be clashing shurikens with other projectiles, you should use them to poke the opponent and force them to come after you. Lucario's spheres are slow unlike shurikens so they can't apply as much pressure.

Also N-Air combos into jab, up-smash, f-air, d-tilt and even into a grab depending on the opponents percentage. It's also Greninja's most common method of approaching. I land d-tilt fairly often by using it after blocking an attack. And really, Up-Throw being unpredictable due to enemy weight/percentage is no excuse because pretty much all attacks depend on that.

I'm sorry but you really don't understand how Greninja works. I would provide you with videos but I don't keep track of those things so I think somebody else can do that for you.