Greninja: My opinions, strategies, tips, tricks and advanced techniques

[Chiroz]

Lately I have been meeting jumps in or predictable jumps with UpB>8>1> to do that "wabedash-ish" move that throws water diagonally up. I'm not sure how the pushback physics work, but sometimes the opponent flies farther away than other times. I wouldn't give it much thought but, I think this could help in very specific situations. I did it first against a Falcon that already wasted his second jump as he tried to dodge a shuriken only to get pushed away. I had enough time to connect with a Fair and get the kill.

It can really throw off the opponent when they're pushed like that, pretty sure no one expects just how much you can be pushed away in the air.

Now, I'm not even sure if it's worth or even if you can gain something most of the time due to the ending lag of UpB, but I thought it was interesting. How does fludd interact with Little Mac Side B?

Little Mac's Side-B goes through all projectiles including windboxes/Hydro Pump.

The pushing effect seems to push you always upwards and away but how much it pushes you upwards depends completely on your current vertical velocity (From what I've noticed). So for example if you do it on a character that's currently jumping he will be shot upwards incredibly fast. If he is at the very peak of his jump he will barely move at all vertically. If he is falling he will move slightly upwards. If he is falling incredibly fast then it will push him really high into the air too.

 

[Chiroz]

I just updated the OP with a new section: Videos!

Most of the videos showcase at least one of Greninja's techniques and they are interesting to watch if you want to know how to perform said techniques. As for skill level, take into account all of those replays are from friday/saturday night so I hadn't had much practice yet except for the 3 times I went to my friend's house. I have more replays from yesterday I will upload soon. I wasn't able to play on Sunday (except with some friends in which I normally pick other character's to learn them).

Currently today I feel I am much more skilled than I was 3-4 days ago (even though it sounds stupid it's about 3 times the gametime!). I have more replays from yesterday I will upload soon. I wasn't able to play on Sunday (except with some friends in which I normally pick other character's to learn them).




Please take a look.

 

[Thalassa]

Yo this thread is exactly the kind of thing new players like myself need, mad props.
(Also excellent choice of Greninja palette)
On that note, I'm having a lot of trouble doing fastfall UAirs as the button sequence required is really difficult to pull off. Is there anything that can make it easier?
Also out of curiosity what's your button setup like?

 

[Chiroz]

Yo this thread is exactly the kind of thing new players like myself need, mad props.
(Also excellent choice of Greninja palette)
On that note, I'm having a lot of trouble doing fastfall UAirs as the button sequence required is really difficult to pull off. Is there anything that can make it easier?
Also out of curiosity what's your button setup like?

I changed jump to R (shield is L). I normally just press L+A instead of pressing the grab button. The reason I did this is because jumping is the one action that is almost always needed in quick succession for combos or techniques so this way I have one of my fingers specifically designated to jump instead of having jump share a finger with 2 other actions (I play with tap jump off because it messes up my Up-Airs).


I have trouble consistently getting the U-Air spike myself. My problem isn't exactly the button sequence but more so the spacing and timing. You need to be spaced just enough to allow for the proper timing in the inputs which is kind of hard to do. I think just practice on bots. Make them jump and then just short hop and U-Air fast-fall as you're coming down and they're coming up. Once you're comfortable with doing it in this way you'll start to recognize other similar situations you could do it in. And with practice you will probably start doing it when coming from below which is much harder (and it's what I've been having trouble with).

 

[Thalassa]

I changed jump to R (shield is L). I normally just press L+A instead of pressing the grab button. The reason I did this is because jumping is the one action that is almost always needed in quick succession for combos or techniques so this way I have one of my fingers specifically designated to jump instead of having jump share a finger with 2 other actions (I play with tap jump off because it messes up my Up-Airs).

That is a fair point. I usually play with jump on B, shield on L and grab on R but that might be worth trying out.

 

[Chiroz]

That is a fair point. I usually play with jump on B, shield on L and grab on R but that might be worth trying out.

I mean, controls are all about preference honestly. I just find it easier to input things faster when I have one finger specifically designated to that certain action. In Brawl I mained Ice Climbers so I made R grab because Z is a rather uncomfortable button on the GC controller and L+A is a 2 button input which is easier to mess up than just pressing R.

 

[Amical]

Very nice, informative thread! I have a question: how viable is UpThrow > UpSmash at very low percents (as in low single digits)? I've been able to pull it off several times on a whole plethora of characters in For Glory mode. Actually, sometimes I've even been able to pull off UpThrow > UpSmash > UpSmash > UpAir for a nice ~50+% as soon as the match starts. I was wondering if anyone has found this yet, and how much it depends on vectoring and whether or not the former or the latter can ever be true combos.

 

[Chiroz]

Very nice, informative thread! I have a question: how viable is UpThrow > UpSmash at very low percents (as in low single digits)? I've been able to pull it off several times on a whole plethora of characters in For Glory mode. Actually, sometimes I've even been able to pull off UpThrow > UpSmash > UpSmash > UpAir for a nice ~50+% as soon as the match starts. I was wondering if anyone has found this yet, and how much it depends on vectoring and whether or not the former or the latter can ever be true combos.

I use this all the time in online. You can see me do it in some of the videos I just posted. Apparently training mode doesn't register it as a true combo but I've never had it miss on anyone below 10% except when they airdodge, but if they air dodge you can just regrab->up throw or f-smash them.

 

[Amical]

I use this all the time in online. You can see me do it in some of the videos I just posted. Apparently training mode doesn't register it as a true combo but I've never had it miss on anyone below 10% except when they airdodge, but if they air dodge you can just regrab->up throw or f-smash them.

Cool, cool. The regrab is a nice way to punish that I hadn't thought of.

 

[Chiroz]

Cool, cool. The regrab is a nice way to punish that I hadn't thought of.

Remember there's a regrab immunity timer, so try to wait for the last possible second of your opponents lag, or just try jabbing to regrab if that's too risky.

 

[AlexAnthonyD]

Just watched your first video in the updated OP vs sonic. Loved the spike I rewatched it several times to try and see how you did it. Seems like you make contact them fast fall. I thought from reading about it you had to initiate the attack, fast fall and fall into your opponent and then out before finishing the move. I see you go for it and nail it the one time. I won't say you make it look easy but you sure do make it look possible. I look forward to watching the other videos tonight/tomorrow.

 

[Eji1700]

Few more things-

Combos' i posted are character specific. I will say that dtilt to jab combo does seem to work at least on shiek, fox, and ZSS, so that's nice(i think. Tested awhile ago). I also think that dtilt to grab is viable vs a lot of characters in the early %'s.

Walk approach is actually quite good with ninja. God knows we've got a nice dash attack, but from walk you get more options(the titlts mainly), and you're still quite quick. Does anyone know a quick way to get to full walk speed from neutral? Right now i use a roll or a jump to buffer the pad input, and then just hold it after i land/roll finishes, and i'll be walking full speed, but ideally i'd like to be able to go full walk asap without going into a run from neutral.

 

[Spirst]

Few more things-

Combos' i posted are character specific. I will say that dtilt to jab combo does seem to work at least on shiek, fox, and ZSS, so that's nice(i think. Tested awhile ago). I also think that dtilt to grab is viable vs a lot of characters in the early %'s.

Walk approach is actually quite good with ninja. God knows we've got a nice dash attack, but from walk you get more options(the titlts mainly), and you're still quite quick. Does anyone know a quick way to get to full walk speed from neutral? Right now i use a roll or a jump to buffer the pad input, and then just hold it after i land/roll finishes, and i'll be walking full speed, but ideally i'd like to be able to go full walk asap without going into a run from neutral.

I push the circle pad a little lighter than I usually would if I was running. Sometimes, it can also help to push it at a diagonal angle and then ease into a full left or right. Take a tiny little pause before moving the stick so it's not registered as a full-on run.

 

[Eji1700]

Sweet. in other news-
https://gfycat.com/CreativeBitesizedHen

It's posted up in the competitive 3ds subforum, but this seems to help aggressive characters in general, and greninja a LOT. You can now sorta tech chase his forward throw at lower %'s. I wonder who else is going to get some nasty stuff from this.

 

[Chiroz]

So apparently Greninja can "slow fall". He also can instantly teleport Shadow Sneak to the ground.

So if you try to fast fall while charging Shadow Sneak then Greninja will go into a "slow fall". He will start to fall about the same as Jigglypuff's normal fall speed.

Now there's 2 things you can do from this point, you can either release the Shadow Sneak whenever you want which will make Greninja instantly teleport the height of his full jump downwards before performing Shadow Sneak.

Yes, you heard correctly, just by pressing down before releasing Shadow Sneak Greninja will instantly teleport to the ground (or just downwards if you are so incredibly high up in the air)!

The 2nd thing is cancelling the "instant downwards teleportation". I am sure you can cancel the instant downwards teleportation and do a normal Shadow Sneak upon releasing the charge. I still don't know how this is done because I only tested this for 5 minutes. I expect it to be something as simple as pressing upwards.

Being able to cancel this downwards teleportation allows you to use the "slow fall" part of the technique by itself without having to worry about dropping 10 feet into the ground.



I will post videos of this soon!




Edit:

The only way to cancel it seems to be by jumping which is a bummer as you will be required to save your second jump if you want to cancel it.

On other news you can also fast fall BEFORE performing Shadow Sneak and it also works.

If you instantly release side-B without charging it Greninja will actually Shadow Sneak downwards (he will teleport downwards with the attack) allowing you to punish opponents who air dodge one of your aerials by instantly dropping to the ground next to them. You can also punish people charging a Smash or something similar by dropping to their backs instantly.

 

[Thalassa]

That is a really big deal actually, excellent find. Being able to instantly teleport to the ground has all sorts of useful applications. I tried it a bit myself and it works though it seems a bit finicky to execute, doing it too quickly messed it up for me.

Also I noticed I could USmash the Bowser CPU twice after a UThrow at 0%. Has anyone tried doing this against another player because I'm not sure if a player can escape it or not.

Does anyone have any tips as for how to shortjump consistently? I keep accidentally doing a full jump when I try to shortjump.

 

[HiImBleep]

Also I noticed I could USmash the Bowser CPU twice after a UThrow at 0%. Has anyone tried doing this against another player because I'm not sure if a player can escape it or not.

I have, but I it might have been poor defence from the other player that let me land it:

 

[Sosuke]

they can definitely jump after, but it's not a bad idea to do it anyway in case they don't

 

[Neanderthal]

Does anyone have any tips as for how to shortjump consistently? I keep accidentally doing a full jump when I try to shortjump.

Instead of softly/quickly pressing the button in the middle, it's more reliable to just tilt the edge of the button down and slip ur finger away as you begin to press it.

So you're really just pressing the very edge of the button and sliding ur finger down away from it in one motion.
With practise this becomes very natural.

 

[TypePositive]

The drop shadow sneak is fantastic. It's easy to do adds variability to a really predictable move. I wrote off trying to use SS until i heard about that and lag cancel down air

 

[momochuu]

yeah up throw into up smash is only gonna work if they don't jump. its a 50/50 for them to try and avoid an up smash or up air. they have to guess which one you'll do. on some characters up throw into up air is a true combo though.

 

[Dimpus]

yeah up throw into up smash is only gonna work if they don't jump. its a 50/50 for them to try and avoid an up smash or up air. they have to guess which one you'll do. on some characters up throw into up air is a true combo though.

I think in general uair is better because even if they don't jump the hitbox is large enough for a short-hopped uair to connect.

 

[TehSharpie]

So I know that Greninja's Dtilt is amazing, but I can't seem to find a good way to mix it in. Any tips on how to efficiently mix in Dtilts at low/mid/high %'s?

I noticed that even at high %, Dtilt's knockback doesn't really change that much so could it serve as a supplement to Uthrow -> Uair combos when they are too high % for Uthrow?

 

[iVoltage]

Its official, you single handedly put charizard on the backburner for me. I originally had plans to main greninja, but he wasn't working out for me. Seeing these videos, trying these things made me realize I did EVERYTHING wrong! His up-B gimping is the coolest thing. Looking forward to learning greninja further :]

 

[Shack]

Has anyone noticed his Up Smash doing some kind of Spike when you connect with the tip? Viewable at 4:10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycmOh9z68Q)

I have noticed this randomly when playing. The first hit connects and shakes everything like it is about to be a big hit, then they just fall to the floor. A Spike maybe on the first attack? Or does it just suck them in a little to help the second hit connect?

 

[Spirst]

Has anyone noticed his Up Smash doing some kind of Spike when you connect with the tip? Viewable at 4:10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nycmOh9z68Q)

I have noticed this randomly when playing. The first hit connects and shakes everything like it is about to be a big hit, then they just fall to the floor. A Spike maybe on the first attack? Or does it just suck them in a little to help the second hit connect?

I've had this happen at times as well. I believe, since the usmash is two hits (the other being the sweetspotted hit), it brings the other person in for the second hit to connect much like how the uair works. However, I've never had this happen unless the hit connected directly above as opposed to the left and right side.

 

[Chumi]

Something that happened to me with shadow sneak is right after letting go and appearing I disappeared again as if I had used it again, no lag. Has anyone seen or done this?
Edit: I'll upload a video later when I get home

 

[Jahordon]

Can somebody elaborate on how I gimp people better with my up b? I can push people, but what angle should I be trying to hit them at, or does it even matter?

Let's say they're off the stage to the left. Do I up b diagonally up and left into them to push them away, or do I try to jump out and up b back toward the stage? Basically, I'm wondering if they are pushed parallelparallel or antiparallel to the direction I am travelling.

 

[PadWarrior]

So when I do my up throw with grenjnja sometimes they go off to the side instead straight up making it hard to follow up with an up smash up air. This happen to anyone else?

 

[Jahordon]

So when I do my up throw with grenjnja sometimes they go off to the side instead straight up making it hard to follow up with an up smash up air. This happen to anyone else?

This happens to me too.

 

[Eji1700]

So when I do my up throw with grenjnja sometimes they go off to the side instead straight up making it hard to follow up with an up smash up air. This happen to anyone else?

Your opponent can still affect the trajectory of the up throw. If they're holding left or right they won't go straight up.

 

[Neanderthal]

So when I do my up throw with grenjnja sometimes they go off to the side instead straight up making it hard to follow up with an up smash up air. This happen to anyone else?

Happens to everyone against good players.
I just make a mental note of which way they went. Then next time I aim my jump and up air more towards that direction. It's all mind games.


@ Chiroz
When you're spamming shurikens to force an approach, what do you generally find to me the best way to counter their approaches? (Both aerial and rolling).

 

[Spirst]

Not Raykz but the jab seems to be a good quick way to cover yourself when someone is running in after evading a shuriken. It comes out the quickest out of all Greninja's grounded attacks and seems to have decent priority.

 

[Chumi]

If I had to name 2 greninja players that I trust they would be Spirst and Raykz

 

[Chumi]

Something that happened to me with shadow sneak is right after letting go and appearing I disappeared again as if I had used it again, no lag. Has anyone seen or done this?
Edit: I'll upload a video later when I get home

Here is the video (cant post links yet so ...)

youtube.com
/watch?v=pIm_22F_kqc

 

[bajisci]

Here is the video (cant post links yet so ...)

youtube.com
/watch?v=pIm_22F_kqc

All that is is, ZSS interrupted your shadow sneak with jab, you canceled the hitstun of her jab with shadow sneak. you can also punish ZSS's fsmash on hit with shadow sneak by using it after the first hit of her fsmash connects.

 

[Chumi]

All that is is, ZSS interrupted your shadow sneak with jab, you canceled the hitstun of her jab with shadow sneak. you can also punish ZSS's fsmash on hit with shadow sneak by using it after the first hit of her fsmash connects.

Oh I see, thanks.
Still have a long way to go learning

 

[istudying]

Has anyone seen this?
https://vine.co/v/OAQxKbIuwJb
Its so good for Greninja!
I need to practice this!

 

[ItsRoland]

Has anyone seen this?

Its so good for Greninja!
I need to practice this!

This could be really useful for a number of things. Anyone have any idea how to pull it off? I'm going to start trying to replicate when I get home.

 

[eWaltz]

Has anyone seen this?
https://vine.co/v/OAQxKbIuwJb
Its so good for Greninja!
I need to practice this!

Is this just a DACUS? I can't exactly tell.