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Greninja General Discussion Thread - The Coolest Pokémon Ever Is Now Confirmed!

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FlareHabanero

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Given the sheer amount of stage control it looks like Greninja is going to have, I'd pin him at at least high tier, though. As someone who mained Olimar in Brawl looking at Greninja (from what we've seen), I don't think I'll mind giving up a bit of range for more movement options haha.
Stage control, and likewise Shadow Sneak will serve as an interesting method of space control. Both serving as a method to get close to the opponent quickly, and likewise a method of escaping the opponent. Though there are still questions that will determine it's usefulness, like for example being able to angle the attack or having the option to attack or not and likewise have the ability to link into other attacks.
 
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Amical

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Stage control, and likewise Shadow Sneak will serve as an interesting method of space control. Both serving as a method to get close to the opponent quickly, and likewise a method of escaping the opponent. Though there are still questions that will determine it's usefulness, like for example being able to angle the attack or having the option to attack or not and likewise have the ability to link into other attacks.
I hadn't thought of it as an escape method before! That makes it a lot more useful than I'd previously imagined, at least as far as we can tell so far. I'm definitely going to love using this move.
 

FangnierFernious

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I hadn't thought of it as an escape method before! That makes it a lot more useful than I'd previously imagined, at least as far as we can tell so far. I'm definitely going to love using this move.
And since you can still move while charging up the attack it's going to be hard to figure out how to counter it.
 

Bowserlick

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I liked Greninja's flavor, but felt that his specials were just copy and pastes from other movesets with water confetti thrown over it.

However, there are slight yet very important differences.

The water shuriken is multi-hitting and can carry an enemy.

The shadow sneak has a hidden charge, which definitely fits the ninja theme.

Looking forward to more in-depth looks into the other two moves.
 

Jade_Rock55

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Greninja seems so awsome!Shadow sneak and substitute he's going to troll.
 

Qsmash

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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Greninja's first jump from the ground goes super high and his back roll has some great distance as well.
 
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Amical

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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Greninja's first jump from the ground goes super high and his back roll has some great distance as well.
I already noticed the back roll, but my goodness, you're right about the first jump! I just checked, and that's pretty ludicrous.

Well, it makes sense. He is a frog, after all.
 
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FlareHabanero

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Greninja has a high jump, high falling speed, average air mobility, fast long dodges, and a fast dashing speed.

That's the general mobility I got from all this.
 

Amical

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Greninja has a high jump, high falling speed, average air mobility, fast long dodges, and a fast dashing speed.

That's the general mobility I got from all this.
Hmm, it seems most of that is certainly true. His air mobility doesn't seem to be the absolute best, but it's not that bad. As for his falling speed, I actually don't think it's extraordinarily quick or anything, but it's not slow, either. From looking over my collection of .gifs, his falling speed seems average enough, but it doesn't appear too floaty. It is more on the fast side, at most.
It almost seems as if there's just a slight weight to him, too, and from the looks of it, I'm guessing he's going to be a medium-light character -- just more on the light side.
His ground mobility seems to be no less than amazing, though. I mean, he looks just incredibly fast on the ground, and paired with his Shadow Sneak, he's going to make for one tough character to catch.
 
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Jade_Rock55

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So much mobility in the air.I'm wondering about him vs mac the most,that sounds like a fun matchup for both sides!
 

Neo Zero

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I'm still not sold on Shadow Sneak as an escape if that kick will come out all the time, as it looks to have a lot of recovery to it.
 

Garde Noir

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So much mobility in the air.I'm wondering about him vs mac the most,that sounds like a fun matchup for both sides!
I can see a lot of Macs getting really angry at that, though, since I expect Greninja will have more than one way to throw his opponents in the air.
I want to see how this Poke matches up against other aerial characters like Kirby, Peach and Lucas/Ness
 

MoosyDoosy

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His specials are so broken it's laughable. Fully charged Water Shruiken that does multi-hits? Small spammable Shruikens? Side Special Teleport that you can chain an attack out of? Not to mention a fantastic jump and what seem like great aerials. The only thing that's a bit lacking is Substitute as it seems to be as slow as Lucario's from Brawl's. To me it seems like Greninja is going to be kind of like Falco. Nice projectiles, quick attacks and really good at wracking up damage, but I feel that he's going to have trouble getting the kill move, especially with that laggy Up Smash.
 

Rose alumna

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His specials are so broken it's laughable. Fully charged Water Shruiken that does multi-hits? Small spammable Shruikens? Side Special Teleport that you can chain an attack out of? Not to mention a fantastic jump and what seem like great aerials. The only thing that's a bit lacking is Substitute as it seems to be as slow as Lucario's from Brawl's. To me it seems like Greninja is going to be kind of like Falco. Nice projectiles, quick attacks and really good at wracking up damage, but I feel that he's going to have trouble getting the kill move, especially with that laggy Up Smash.
i agreee his kill moves might be his air attacks
 

Amical

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If you look at the trailer, his Shadow Sneak is actually pretty powerful. It knocks the WFT quite a distance when he uses it on her. His FSmash also appears strong with good range. His Water Shurikens also deal, from what we can tell, a meteor smash on the final hit. And although USmash might be laggy, it still comes out fairly quickly. I don't think that killing is going to be his problem; but racking up damage, although he might be great at it, will require good reads.
His tilts also seem to be great "get out" moves, with great speed and good range. This, paired with his amazing projectile, fast speed on the ground, and Shadow Sneak makes him what appears to be a very difficult character to approach. If his grab is as long as it looks like, too, then that only makes it better.
His Dair looks like a meteor smash, his Bair has good range and is multi-hit, and his Fair has good range and looks powerful. Again, racking up damage is certainly something that he appears to be able to do well, but not without playing with patience and figuring out the opponent. Killing, on the other hand, doesn't seem like too much of a problem for our ninja frog.
 

MoosyDoosy

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If you look at the trailer, his Shadow Sneak is actually pretty powerful. It knocks the WFT quite a distance when he uses it on her. His FSmash also appears strong with good range. His Water Shurikens also deal, from what we can tell, a meteor smash on the final hit. And although USmash might be laggy, it still comes out fairly quickly. I don't think that killing is going to be his problem; but racking up damage, although he might be great at it, will require good reads.
His tilts also seem to be great "get out" moves, with great speed and good range. This, paired with his amazing projectile, fast speed on the ground, and Shadow Sneak makes him what appears to be a very difficult character to approach. If his grab is as long as it looks like, too, then that only makes it better.
His Dair looks like a meteor smash, his Bair has good range and is multi-hit, and his Fair has good range and looks powerful. Again, racking up damage is certainly something that he appears to be able to do well, but not without playing with patience and figuring out the opponent. Killing, on the other hand, doesn't seem like too much of a problem for our ninja frog.
I based my thoughts on the fact that the norm for ninja characters like Greninja is to be light and really good at wracking up damage, but then to have problems at killing. His forward smash seems okay, but not that powerful. His up smash is going to be very risky to use due to its high ending lag, although it will probably one of Greninja's most powerful moves. And yes, I agree that his aerials are powerful but when using them to wrack up damage, it is going to be very difficult to keep them fresh as they seem to be some of Greninja's better moves. His projectile might be good for gimping and his Down Air is going to be very risky to use to spike unless you can cancel it in midair.
As for wracking up damage, I think it will be very easy as Greninja. We can see that he has extremely good range on his back and forward airs, his jab is excellent, his tilts are nice for spacing, and his grabs will put opponents in spaces that he wants them to be in. Not to mention he has a projectile and ways to approach (Shadow Sneak) which all make for nice free damage.
 

Amical

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I based my thoughts on the fact that the norm for ninja characters like Greninja is to be light and really good at wracking up damage, but then to have problems at killing. His forward smash seems okay, but not that powerful. His up smash is going to be very risky to use due to its high ending lag, although it will probably one of Greninja's most powerful moves. And yes, I agree that his aerials are powerful but when using them to wrack up damage, it is going to be very difficult to keep them fresh as they seem to be some of Greninja's better moves. His projectile might be good for gimping and his Down Air is going to be very risky to use to spike unless you can cancel it in midair.
As for wracking up damage, I think it will be very easy as Greninja. We can see that he has extremely good range on his back and forward airs, his jab is excellent, his tilts are nice for spacing, and his grabs will put opponents in spaces that he wants them to be in. Not to mention he has a projectile and ways to approach (Shadow Sneak) which all make for nice free damage.
I agree with a lot of this. It just seems to me that most of his moves are going to require knowing where your opponent is going to be in advance, all except for his tilts and aerials, since those all come out fairly quickly.
And his Dair isn't risky at all, actually. When he uses it on Yoshi in the trailer, he immediately cancels it into a double jump.
 
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MoosyDoosy

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I agree with a lot of this. It just seems to me that most of his moves are going to require knowing where your opponent is going to be in advance, all except for his tilts and aerials, since those all come out fairly quickly.
And his Dair isn't risky at all, actually. When he uses it on Yoshi in the trailer, he immediately cancels it into a double jump.
Well, Smash Bros in general is a game about reads. ;)
Yeah, but we don't know if he was able to cancel because he hit Yoshi or not. While it might be safe to call either way, I'd still want to be safe when doing a Down Air into my possible death.
 
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Amical

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Yeah, but we don't know if he was able to cancel because he hit Yoshi or not. While it might be safe to call either way, I'd still want to be safe when doing a Down Air into my possible death.
That's true.
Meh, speculating isn't really useful at this point anyway, but hey, if one thing is for certain: Greninja is going to be a very, very tricky character to play against.
 

FlareHabanero

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Also, I can imagine the fully charged up version of Water Shuriken being a really effective pressuring tool. It hits multiple times, which naturally means the opponent will try to stomach the attack with a shield. However, while the opponent is distracted by the attack, you can run up to the opponent and grab them as punishment.
 

Amical

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Also, I can imagine the fully charged up version of Water Shuriken being a really effective pressuring tool. It hits multiple times, which naturally means the opponent will try to stomach the attack with a shield. However, while the opponent is distracted by the attack, you can run up to the opponent and grab them as punishment.
I was thinking the same thing. It definitely looks like Greninja can dash faster than his Shurikens, which would allow him to do just that.
Eventually, then, your opponent will be conditioned to jump over the Shurikens, since I don't think spot dodging would be an option. Thus, they'll be forced into the air where you can take advantage of them with Greninja's amazing aerials.
 

SmashShadow

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All I want to do is fully charged Water Shuriken into Shadow Sneak because I know for sure that will combo.
 
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Amical

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Water Shuriken just looks like it will combo into any attack Greninja can do on the ground in general. But I must say, WS to Shadow Sneak sounds super flashy.
 

MoosyDoosy

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Water Shuriken just looks like it will combo into any attack Greninja can do on the ground in general. But I must say, WS to Shadow Sneak sounds super flashy.
Sounds like Falco's SHDL to Phantasm to me. :D A nice way to get free damage. Really excited for Greninja. :D
 

Banjodorf

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Also, I can imagine the fully charged up version of Water Shuriken being a really effective pressuring tool. It hits multiple times, which naturally means the opponent will try to stomach the attack with a shield. However, while the opponent is distracted by the attack, you can run up to the opponent and grab them as punishment.
Does it also seem plausible to chain the charged Shuriken with a Shadow Sneak? That sounds amazing if done correctly, given what we just know right now.

Also, unrelated to that, I find it kinda funny that "Greninja'd" which became a thing quickly after his XY reveal, is now a thing for our community as well. Neat! :4greninja:
 

KingsHaki

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I'll be joining the competitive Smash scene this time around...at least locally and online =P And I will be maining the Frog-ninja! Swaaaaggg Leggo!
 

Amical

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Does it also seem plausible to chain the charged Shuriken with a Shadow Sneak? That sounds amazing if done correctly, given what we just know right now.

Also, unrelated to that, I find it kinda funny that "Greninja'd" which became a thing quickly after his XY reveal, is now a thing for our community as well. Neat! :4greninja:
Yes, I'm going to use the term "Greninja'd" as religiously as possible.
Also, instead of the word "EDIT," I'm going to use the substitute when editing my posts now. :substitute:

:substitute:: What perfect timing to use it! Welcome to the Greninja boards, KingsHaki! It's always great to see new competitive smashers.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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Based on the following screenshot, it seems that Greninja wields batting items with a reverse grip, similar to the way that Sheik handled them...

 

ぱみゅ

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I don't think Shadow Sneak can be done with many Special Attacks, it needs to be charged afterall....
 

Amical

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I don't think Shadow Sneak can be done with many Special Attacks, it needs to be charged afterall....
Well, we don't know how quickly it charges. And perhaps the opponent might be caught in the Shuriken long enough to allow for a charge. We'll just have to see, though; for you do have a point.
 

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I'll be joining the competitive Smash scene this time around...at least locally and online =P And I will be maining the Frog-ninja! Swaaaaggg Leggo!
Welcome aboard! More awesome people to push the Greninja competitive scene ahead at launch is super! Look forward to smashing and discussing with you! :4greninja: :shades:
 

Neo Zero

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I think the issue is it doesn't need to be charged, but it can be charged. The charge increases distance, likely making it optional before the move starts so I imagine as soon as you let go of B for Shadow Sneak, it does it, regardless if held for 1 second or 10 seconds (wonder if it caps distance/second wise btw)
 
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