Greninja General Discussion Thread - The Coolest Pokémon Ever Is Now Confirmed!

[KERO]

Has anyone some videos or GIFs of Shadow Sneak? I haven't really seen a good scene where it was used..

I love this character so much

Depends on what you're looking for. Shadow Sneak hitting someone, the shadow itself moving, or him jumping while extending the shadow? With how much the Smash Demo's been paraded around as well as how Nintendo has gone out of their way to give us hours of footage, I'm sure I could find any of those (except perhaps the last one).

 

[Bedoop]

I made some sprites.

 

[Protom]

Paper pokemon (+ trainer) from all of smash thus far.

Spoiler

 

[ShadowShuriken]

Personally, Greninja has been my favourite Kalos starter from the beginning and even speaking about this, "Pokemon-Trainer" type thing, lowers the class of Greninja, Greninja is a pokemon who is cool whether shiny or not, he doesnt need some trainer to summon him (or whatever) because u too awesome ^_^ Support for Greninja FTW!!

I feel like Greninja tremendously tarnishes Mewtwo and Takamaru's chances..
I love Greninja, but.. I guess I'll just have to get used to him.
And the idea of no Mewtwo and Takamaru.

We dont know about Mewtwo yet, but even im getting a sinking feeling we wont get mewtwo, even though he would be awesome for his mega's but maybe it is his time yet...

 

[NashRiskin]

Hey all! Not sure how often you guys visit other character pages but I wrote an indepth Rosalina and Luma Breakdown seen here: http://smashboards.com/threads/extensive-rosalina-and-luma-breakdown.364387/
And this weekend I was at the Nintendo Play Event in Irvine and Labbed Greninja extremely hard and am writing an in depth analysis for him. Stay tuned!!!

 

[Spirst]

Hey all! Not sure how often you guys visit other character pages but I wrote an indepth Rosalina and Luma Breakdown seen here: http://smashboards.com/threads/extensive-rosalina-and-luma-breakdown.364387/
And this weekend I was at the Nintendo Play Event in Irvine and Labbed Greninja extremely hard and am writing an in depth analysis for him. Stay tuned!!!

That sounds great!

Do you know if a flubbed d-air works like Toon Link's in Brawl or like G&W's? If I remember correctly, while both travel downwards with the move, G&W is able to react quicker and save himself with an up-b whereas it's pretty much an SD with TL.

I know that upon impact, Greninja does a bounce. However, it would be a relatively safer move if Greninja wasn't deepy frame-locked into it and could cancel the animation with a recovery fast enough should he miss the d-air.

 

[NashRiskin]

That sounds great!

Do you know if a flubbed d-air works like Toon Link's in Brawl or like G&W's? If I remember correctly, while both travel downwards with the move, G&W is able to react quicker and save himself with an up-b whereas it's pretty much an SD with TL.

You can recover provided there is enough distance to allow time for the up B to be used.

 

[Spirst]

You can recover provided there is enough distance to allow time for the up B to be used.

Say that you flubbed a d-air just slightly above the main platform edge on Battlefield, would you still have a good recovery option?

 

[NashRiskin]

Say that you flubbed a d-air just slightly above the main platform edge on Battlefield, would you still have a good recovery option?

I think you could up B in time but not 100% sure, the line is around there though.

 

[Spirst]

I think you could up B in time but not 100% sure, the line is around there though.

Alright, thanks, we'll see. I have another more general question now (apologies if it's bothersome but I'm really curious): How is the hitstun in this game? Can Greninja legitimately combo (as in the opponent is actually locked into the hitstun frames) or is it mostly on the part of the player not reacting quickly enough?

 

[NashRiskin]

Alright, thanks, we'll see. I have another more general question now (apologies if it's bothersome but I'm really curious): How is the hitstun in this game? Can Greninja legitimately combo (as in the opponent is actually locked into the hitstun frames) or is it mostly on the part of the player not reacting quickly enough?

It felt like a mixed bag but Greninja has a lot of ending lag on certain moves that feel like they should lead to combos (like every throw except down throw isn;t really a reliable combo move) This might change but I go into more detail in my write up, stay tuned!

 

[Spirst]

It felt like a mixed bag but Greninja has a lot of ending lag on certain moves that feel like they should lead to combos (like every throw except down throw isn;t really a reliable combo move) This might change but I go into more detail in my write up, stay tuned!

Hmm, I see, thanks. Here's to hoping his combo ability ability is found.

 

[NashRiskin]

Hmm, I see, thanks. Here's to hoping his combo ability ability is found.

I quick question, have you played at all yet? In my experience with the game Greninja has the most unusual movement in the game by far. His short hop can actually moves pretty far horizontally and his Nair has great combo potential as it provides a lot of hit stun if it connects. His Bair also has potential as does his dilt.

 

[Spirst]

I quick question, have you played at all yet? In my experience with the game Greninja has the most unusual movement in the game by far. His short hop can actually moves pretty far horizontally and his Nair has great combo potential as it provides a lot of hit stun if it connects. His Bair also has potential as does his dilt.

Unfortunately, no, I haven't. I haven't had the chance to. The one day I did, there was such a long line that I would be waiting for hours (which I couldn't spare) so there went that.

That is interesting, yeah. Is it easy to shorthop with him? Characters like Charizard/Snake were easy to shorthop with but characters like Falco were a little more difficult, in my experience. How is the ending/landing lag on the n-air? Would you be able to follow up with a quick tilt or is it too significant that it hinders what he can do upon landing?

 

[NashRiskin]

Unfortunately, no, I haven't. I haven't had the chance to. The one day I did, there was such a long line that I would be waiting for hours (which I couldn't spare) so there went that.

That is interesting, yeah. Is it easy to shorthop with him? Characters like Charizard/Snake were easy to shorthop with but characters like Falco were a little more difficult, in my experience. How is the ending/landing lag on the n-air? Would you be able to follow up with a quick tilt or is it too significant that it hinders what he can do upon landing?

His short hop is much higher than most characters but seems viable to fast fall w/o a ton of landing lag because of this fact.
As for the Nair, it seems to knock peeps away and up so usually you need to follow with another nair, in this build aerial to ground combo seemed harder to execute over all but characters like Yoshi and Luigi could do it well. Greninja seemed to struggle more with this. But Nair to dilt seemed possible.

 

[Spirst]

His short hop is much higher than most characters but seems viable to fast fall w/o a ton of landing lag because of this fact.
As for the Nair, it seems to knock peeps away and up so usually you need to follow with another nair, in this build aerial to ground combo seemed harder to execute over all but characters like Yoshi and Luigi could do it well. Greninja seemed to struggle more with this. But Nair to dilt seemed possible.

Hmm, I'm not sure how I feel about his short hop being higher than most characters. For a character like him, a shorter hop seems ideal. All the Greninja gameplay matches I've seen tend to use the d-air with a u-air follow-up. I don't know if that's actually viable though or if the other person just isn't quick enough to do anything. The d-air seems like a safe getaway move.

 

[Mattatari]

I have honestly never been as stoked to play a character as stoked as I am to play Greninja!

 

[FlareHabanero]

Out of curiosity, but did anyone find a dark green alternate costume for Greninja?

I want to make Bang Shishigami references.

 

[Sinji]

After reading up on some things I have to say that Greninja is going to be without a shadow of a doubt one of the best characters in the game.


-His zoning is impeccable, and with the running>shield into anything out of shield mechanic, he can approach easily.

- He is a light weight character but has incredible mobility allowing him to evade a lot of moves. I prefer to use him a hit and run style similar to Fox from Melee.

-His Shadow Sneak can throw a lot of opponents off guard (similar to Marth's counter)

-He is very combo oriented especially with his up tilt (you can get at least 4-5 at low %s)

Overall Greninja is a extraordinary character with many tools. I can't wait to take him to the extreme and master him.

 

[Tepig2000]

After reading up on some things I have to say that Greninja is going to be without a shadow of a doubt one of the best characters in the game.


-His zoning is impeccable, and with the running>shield into anything out of shield mechanic, he can approach easily.

- He is a light weight character but has incredible mobility allowing him to evade a lot of moves. I prefer to use him a hit and run style similar to Fox from Melee.

-His Shadow Sneak can throw a lot of opponents off guard (similar to Marth's counter)

-He is very combo oriented especially with his up tilt (you can get at least 4-5 at low %s)

Overall Greninja is a extraordinary character with many tools. I can't wait to take him to the extreme and master him.

That sounds great. Now I'm even more excited to main him.

 

[NashRiskin]

My Greninja Breakdown is up http://smashboards.com/threads/extensive-greninja-moveset-breakdown.366780/

 

[ConeZ]

After reading up on some things I have to say that Greninja is going to be without a shadow of a doubt one of the best characters in the game.


-His zoning is impeccable, and with the running>shield into anything out of shield mechanic, he can approach easily.

- He is a light weight character but has incredible mobility allowing him to evade a lot of moves. I prefer to use him a hit and run style similar to Fox from Melee.

-His Shadow Sneak can throw a lot of opponents off guard (similar to Marth's counter)

-He is very combo oriented especially with his up tilt (you can get at least 4-5 at low %s)

Overall Greninja is a extraordinary character with many tools. I can't wait to take him to the extreme and master him.

I am really excited for all of this as well xD
I really hope this game ends up being more competitive than Brawl because it'll be nice to have something in addition to PM for me, since I have never been that great at Melee (because I use custom controls from playing Brawl>PM)

 

[KingofPhantoms]

A bit disappointed we didn't get a green Greninja alt. It's a FROG after all...

But oh well, no biggie. I'm liking most of Greninja's other alts quite a lot too.

 

[KERO]

Alright, so here's another Greninja match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZHUv5usE5c

However, at 1:24, something interesting happens. Kirby Fthrows Greninja at 25%, and immediately, Greninja Shadow Sneaks out of it. Like, immediately. I'm not even sure that I can see him in a damage animation. I didn't see Hbox ever use Kirby's Fthrow in the Invitational, so maybe Kirby's Fthrow's just terrible? I do remember a yellow Fthrow from Oli in Brawl had literally no hitstun, so it might be a similar thing. Regardless, it'd be interesting if Shadow Sneak may negate hitstun with the drawback that it's really laggy at the end. Although, if I had to guess, it's just Kirby's Fthrow being bad or is something the team is gonna patch.

Alright, so I posted this a while ago, but I wrote it off as bad hitstun on Kirby's Fthrow. However, then this came to light (Megaman Rush recovery combo breaker) recently. Now, I can't help but wonder if Greninja's Shadow Sneak may very well have similar properties. If so, this could make Greninja damn good.

 

[Jaguar360]

I found this video that showcases Bounce shenanigans along with some amazing edgeguarding with Hydro Pump and Shadow Sneak!

 

[meleebrawler]

I found this video that showcases Bounce shenanigans along with some amazing edgeguarding with Hydro Pump and Shadow Sneak!

I disagree with what that guy showed about his Dair, Bowser could clearly dodge if he wanted to.
Dair bouncing is not a combo, just pressure.

 

[Jaguar360]

I disagree with what that guy showed about his Dair, Bowser could clearly dodge if he wanted to.
Dair bouncing is not a combo, just pressure.

Yeah, Bowser definitely could have blocked and rolled over. The move also looks like it would be less effective on smaller targets like Kirby and Pikachu.

 

[Spirst]

The part about using his up-b to gimp recoveries is really neat though. I can see it being really useful when someone is recovering mid-high and you want to push them back. Seems it would be a surprise hit.

 

[Chiroz]

I disagree with what that guy showed about his Dair, Bowser could clearly dodge if he wanted to.
Dair bouncing is not a combo, just pressure.

You can do it faster than that. It is a true combo at low %s (below 40%). Basically you can chain up to 3 D-Airs if your opponent is at 0%, but you have to "chase your opponent as he can DI in any direction.



Also the Up-B pushing is essentially free kill on Little Mac.

 

[meleebrawler]

You can do it faster than that. It is a true combo at low %s (below 40%). Basically you can chain up to 3 D-Airs if your opponent is at 0%, but you have to "chase your opponent as he can DI in any direction.



Also the Up-B pushing is essentially free kill on Little Mac.

I guess I just don't want people to get the wrong idea and try to land his Dair all the time.
As rewarding as it may be, there are still severe consequences for missing.

 

[Chiroz]

I guess I just don't want people to get the wrong idea and try to land his Dair all the time.
As rewarding as it may be, there are still severe consequences for missing.

There are, also it doesn't chain into itself more than 2ce and after the opponent is around 30-40% you won't be able to chain it anymore as your opponent will fly much further (unless he doesn't DI at all and you don't DI either after the hit). Basically it's not a combo you should depend on, but its something to "watch out for" if you for some reason land D-Air at 0-20%. Just try to read your opponent and keep in mind this is an option but don't just try and make it happen. It's more of a "stars-aligned" kind of deal.

The spiking of this move is also incredibly dangerous as missing the spike offstage means you will die 100% guarantee.

 

[meleebrawler]

There are, also it doesn't chain into itself more than 2ce and after the opponent is around 30-40% you won't be able to chain it anymore as your opponent will fly much further (unless he doesn't DI at all and you don't DI either after the hit). Basically it's not a combo you should depend on, but its something to "watch out for" if you for some reason land D-Air at 0-20%. Just try to read your opponent and keep in mind this is an option but don't just try and make it happen. It's more of a "stars-aligned" kind of deal.

The spiking of this move is also incredibly dangerous as missing the spike offstage means you will die 100% guarantee.

I know, but many new or inexperienced players seem drawn to these kinds of stomp moves, which is why it
worries me when these moves get glorified.

 

[Spirst]

I know, but many new or inexperienced players seem drawn to these kinds of stomp moves, which is why it
worries me when these moves get glorified.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen new/inexperienced players use Toon Link's d-air in Brawl.

 

[meleebrawler]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen new/inexperienced players use Toon Link's d-air in Brawl.

Welp, now it doesn't bounce anymore, making it far less useful. It can still spike, but it'll be hard
to do so without SDing.

 

[Ookami Hajime]

The wind box on his recovery is so amazing and I can see it being used really uniquely

 

[Gunla]

With the rise of the new additions coming to this subforum, it's best that this thread be closed for a brand new thread.

The new general discussion thread can be found here:
http://smashboards.com/threads/ninjas-gathering-greninja-social-thread.368762/