Grenade Strategies

[Jonny Westside]

Let's discuss some techniques to utilize Snake's nades a little differently. Just recently, I uploaded a small video where I try to explain this cool way of finishing off an opponent with a grenade (Star KO). Every Snake player I've ever seen ignores either ignores nades completely or uses them defensively only. I wanna show people that offensive options are possible. Anyways I totally fail in explaining things, so please excuse the sloppiness of the video.

So if this topic interests you, please post anything you know so we can learn off of each other. :D

Let me know what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ul3oohvrPI

PATCHED [NO LONGER WORKING] Also there's another video I did where I grabbed an opponent while holding a nade. It's nothing special, just something cool I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU3wUjni_H4

UPDATE! 9-17-2013 Flashy way to edgeguard an opponent recovering low!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUPDemqhQ9c

 

[Professor Pro]

I think the first video is ok but VERY situational
I for one would never ever blow up a C4 stuck on my opponent in the hopes of catching them in the air with a thrown grenade when I could get a much more guaranteed launch into C4 for the kill
It's decent for air chasing in someone situations though.

 

[PIKA321]

Dude I like this. I'm totally gonna use this.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Grenades are fantastic. You can bait the opponents shield or get them in the air with a lob or throw. Wavedash throw is godlike for surprise damage and a situation change

 

[Scythe]

it can be used as an alternative recovery option aside from c4

 

[SinisterB]

^ including coming back down with a Nade for favorable trades


Dropping a nade and baiting someone to hit your shield isn't bad, pretty easy to combo off of at low percents or just putting them in the air in general. Snake can toss his grenade up and AGT it as well, sorta cool. Even leaving them places can provide a degree of stage control, especially when combined with his other tools. Nifty for edge guards.

But yeah I agree with Prof. I'd rather combo a stuck C4 off a nade if anything.

 

[G13_Flux]

using nades in conjunction mortars i tend to find very useful for trapping. for instance, you could lob a grenade the shortest distance (cook it just enough so that the grenade will explode at its peak) then DACUS under it giving the oponent two projectiles to try and avoid. (nd the mortar will also cover you defensively shoudl they somehow get under them to attack you.

Something similar to this is leaving grenades on platforms, and using your great defense from blow (utilt, usmash, uair) to cover their reactions and keep them in a dsadvantageous position. you add in mines to the equation on the edge or closer to the center of the stage under the platform (depending on your and ur oponents position) and use these traps to force them into a punish situation. for instance, lets say u get them into position just slightly off the stage, but not enough where u can run in and make a reliable gimp. if you have set a mine at the edge at some point (hopefully before this situation happened to make it easier) you can set a nade up on the battlefield/YI/Dreamland platform and u give them options of getting back. they can jump, which will lead to the nade. they can get up attack/get up/WL onstage, leading to the mine. or they can roll, leading to say an fsmash. if they camp on the ledge, throw a nikita at them.

 

[bubbaking]

First off, we ALL can learn from how vBrawl Snake users use their grenades. I personally have learned great deals of info on how 'nades can be used from playing vBrawl competitively, despite how distasteful this may seem to some of you. After grabbing a dropped grenade, we can throw them downwards to bounce them off the ground and cover a certain area of space above us, for example.

I really like using 'nades against spacees when I really don't know how they're going to recover (aka they're close enough to have access to ALL their options). If I'm afraid they're going to sideB at/through me, I pull out a 'nade and shield. They run into and blow themselves up, leading to a follow-up combo. The same goes for when they start trying to spam usmash on my shield for a quick kill.

 

[JTsm]

You can also still wavebounce as a landing option since Snake still seems kinda useless in the air.

 

[EastCoastEddie]

One of the best things to do with grenades is to pull out a grenade and then quickly sheild, wavedash out of shield, and then shield again to approach with the grenade. It's a good setup/mixup and grenades do some pretty sick damage.

 

[bubbaking]

I bet you that set-up will be repeated on here every time someone picks up Snake. XD

 

[Translucent]

That's my whole strategy with snake because I know that nothing in this game could go through my shield.

 

[0RLY]

C4 jumps have been unreliable for me lately. I heard there's an alternative with grenade jumping. I can't get it 100% of the time, but are you just supposed to double jump+grenade pull, toss grenade close to you by holding back, then up-b into it? Am I missing something?

 

[bubbaking]

C4 jumps still work fine. Just don't fastfall. As for "grenade jumps", there are different variants of it. I usually just go with the simplest one, which is to hold a cooked grenade until it blows up in your hands. Obviously, you need a lot of falling space for this one, but I find it useful when I suddenly find myself in a situation where I'm guaranteed to die if I don't somehow avoid the area in front of me (closer to the stage).

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

For C4 to work without fast falling, you should press down right before snake auto falls out of cypher and then continue holding down for the c4 plant and explosion. This let's you buffer the down input with the control stick all the way down without fast falling.

 

[bubbaking]

I just tilt the control stick slightly. This works even if you've already auto-fallen out of Cypher, making it useful in more situations. The best way to practice 'self-C4 jumps' (and where I worked on being able to perform them by just slightly tilting the stick) is to play Duelist Pro a LOT (extremely fun with friends ). With this method of self C4-ing, you can even attack someone out of Cypher and still save yourself without fast falling.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

i love you das

 

[ScaryPixel]

Let's discuss some techniques to utilize Snake's nades a little differently. Just recently, I uploaded a small video where I try to explain this cool way of finishing off an opponent with a grenade (Star KO). Every Snake player I've ever seen ignores either ignores nades completely or uses them defensively only. I wanna show people that offensive options are possible. Anyways I totally fail in explaining things, so please excuse the sloppiness of the video.

So if this topic interests you, please post anything you know so we can learn off of each other. :D

Let me know what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ul3oohvrPI

Also there's another video I did where I grabbed an opponent while holding a nade. It's nothing special, just something cool I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU3wUjni_H4

How effective is this in 2.5?

 

[BryE]

How effective is this in 2.5?

I'm not unholydeath, but I'd say it's still effective.

After an upthrow, mine explosion, or c4, it's easy to get a nade chase if your opponent does not expect the nade.

 

[JTsm]

Ohh I've seen this before. Haven't tested it, but it would be sweet if it can work.

 

[leelue]

I am telling you, and so is the video, you can't do that anymore.

Kids these days...

 

[JTsm]

Sad day...

 

[Professor Pro]

I'm not unholydeath, but I'd say it's still effective.

After an upthrow, mine explosion, or c4, it's easy to get a nade chase if your opponent does not expect the nade.

It's honestly not that good to be honest or possible in most situations, anyone with decent knowledge of DI will DI the C4 sideways to survive and once that happens, you won't even get close to being able to throw a grenade underneath them. This is one of them EXTREMELY situational things.

 

[BryE]

It's honestly not that good to be honest or possible in most situations, anyone with decent knowledge of DI will DI the C4 sideways to survive and once that happens, you won't even get close to being able to throw a grenade underneath them. This is one of them EXTREMELY situational things.

Yeah I guess you're right. To be honest, I've only landed one nade chase kill after all of the matches I've played against various people.

 

[leelue]

Yeah man that **** is not easy. I only have maybe a handful of kills like that and it is not for lack of trying.

 

[Zaaji]

does anybody know how to drag your opponents with snake in P.M?

 

[JTsm]

Use the Dpad.

Your Welcome.

 

[bubbaking]

It's usually not worth it. Since P:M has vBrawl grab releases, opponents can mash out insanely early, even at high %'s. If you're not at the correct spacing, and your opponent has proven capable of mashing on-reaction, then you're better off just going for something else. If you're close to a mine, dthrow sets up great TCs and uthrow is always a reliable combo/TC starter.

 

[JTsm]

Hmmm so maybe the next update... Snake should be able to hold to his opponents longer for just that purpose???? :D

Also, this maybe a little risky (with grenade blowing up in only 2 secs), but a good edgegaurding option could be to just throw a nade down to cover in a faster rate of time.

 

[Professor Pro]

It's usually not worth it. Since P:M has vBrawl grab releases, opponents can mash out insanely early, even at high %'s. If you're not at the correct spacing, and your opponent has proven capable of mashing on-reaction, then you're better off just going for something else. If you're close to a mine, dthrow sets up great TCs and uthrow is always a reliable combo/TC starter.

I disagree, it's not like you have to walk someone for 3 seconds every time to space yourself and they have time to mash-out, a lot of the time it's subtle spacing and you only have to walk for like half a second or a second, and no-one consistently at death or high percents mashes out that fast.
D-Throw is pretty good when you are literally right next to the mine, just have to watch out for your spacing if you don't have port-priority because then it could be you getting blown up lol

 

[bubbaking]

Well, at death %'s, sure, but don't underestimate how fast grabs can be mashed out of at, like, any % below 100%. You actually don't need a second. If you're anywhere from a little less than a techroll to a techroll's distance away from a mine, you can dthrow and just cover the in-place/roll away get-up options. It's kind of like TCing using Diddy's bananas, except mines can combo and kill.

 

[Juushichi]

Hey guys, I'm not necessarily a Snake player... but I love watching the character and he's very interesting! I've watched a lot of Prof videos, gotten to play against Sago and JTsm so I experimented with Snake a little and here are some of the things I've come up with for him:

Conversation wtih JTsm:
[1:25:03 PM] DRB | Juushichi: also, i was just messing around with snake a little bit. if you want to stop someone from coming onto the ledge (should work well vs GnW, Pika, Sheik others), b-reverse pull a nade and WD onto the ledge
[1:25:24 PM] DRB | Juushichi: helps keep the juggle situation alive
[1:25:41 PM] DRB | Juushichi: timing is not strict either
[1:25:49 PM] DRB | Juushichi: going to test the <100 ledge roll with it
[1:26:49 PM] DRB | Juushichi: can do it with all version of invincibility
[1:27:03 PM] DRB | Juushichi: with a ledgedash you can also have it explode while you are invincible
[1:27:20 PM] DRB | Juushichi: ledgestand, ledgeroll, ledgehop
[1:29:53 PM] DRB | Juushichi: no matter what point you grab nade
[1:30:07 PM] DRB | Juushichi: with >100 ledge roll it will explode at the start of your roll

Glide Toss:
[1:43:46 PM] DRB | Juushichi: you can glide toss in front of you after a short pause and have it explode just in front of you without getting hit
[1:48:34 PM] DRB | Juushichi: also because of AGT,
[1:48:40 PM] DRB | Juushichi: you actually have a lot of platform coverage
[1:48:50 PM] DRB | Juushichi: coming from one side of the platform to another
[1:49:32 PM] DRB | Juushichi: running off of one of the side ledges and AGTing up to throw a grenade down for example
[1:49:10 PM] DRB | Juushichi: or to one of the other platforms
[1:49:17 PM] DRB | Juushichi: and because of snakes animation, he will AC
[1:49:21 PM] DRB | Juushichi: and be able to move instantly

Part of my conversation with clowsui (shortened my conversation with JTsm):
[2:27:24 PM] DRB | Juushichi: the short timer is actually a huge benefit: invincible (plus grenade hitbox) ledgejump, ledgeroll, ledgestand, ledgedrop (subcategories: zdrop, AGT any direction, regrab)
[2:28:35 PM] DRB | Juushichi: AGT up nade down helps catch low characters, AGT down nade up catches edgeguarders above, AGT back nade forward bounces your grenade off of the stage behind you, catches wall jumpers/clingers like crazy. You also retain your jump and your Up-B if done correctly.

 

[tripp6313]

does anybody know how to drag your opponents with snake in P.M?

if you haven't figured it out yet... you get your opponent in a grab then use the D pad left and right to move

 

[tripp6313]

Something with the grenade that i've found handy is right before a massive hit from an opponent that usually will be a kill move, such as bowser's fsmash, pull a grenade out... it cancels the kill and makes it where you can continually take the hits up to 200% at least... its been super effective in my bouts against my friend... along with it throws him off because then it sets up for me to do a counter attack against him... along with the 0 frames with shielding a grenade as you land still is working... so i frequently pull it out when falling back to stage to shield my ground chasing ***** of a friend

 

[JTsm]

For 2.6, the underhand throw is amazingly good and has a lot of neat tricks that can be explored.

So I found an interesting thing where Snake can Wavbounce>Lowthrow>WD back and this would immediately pick up the nade. It's advise to shield afterwards. Could be a nice little fake out.

Wavbouncing to Lowthrow in general is really good for approaching.

 

[Jonny Westside]

I posted this on reddit a while back but it got deleted on accident, here's something new to try out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUPDemqhQ9c

(OP updated)

 

[SpiderMad]

For 2.6, the underhand throw is amazingly good and has a lot of neat tricks that can be explored.

So I found an interesting thing where Snake can Wavbounce>Lowthrow>WD back and this would immediately pick up the nade. It's advise to shield afterwards. Could be a nice little fake out.

Wavbouncing to Lowthrow in general is really good for approaching.

I usually AGT it from off of the ground, like his up toss to AGT

 

[JTsm]

I usually AGT it from off of the ground, like his up toss to AGT

Ohh I might experiment with that. That sounds really broken. lol

 

[SpiderMad]

I've been doing similar things with grounded bananas. I've enjoyed viewing all the projectile character boards since most can apply or learn variations of the same shenanigans with AGTs and stuff (Except Links got a tether to do even more crazy projectile crap)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QHcWCsLuAgc@t=139
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9yZaBPp5ZF0@t=155
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9yZaBPp5ZF0@t=262

You should also be able to get a lot more height off the ground than these examples if you input it more vertical
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWeadmxHLy4
I can't get this out of my head when I think of Snake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=KNr8yM9CUYc@t=20

I was also thinking, if you're holding and regrabbing the ledge with Snake with a grenade, you could time it to explode while you're invincible right. Would that have any use, like against tethor characters maybe?

 

[Atb555]

Hey guys I tried looking everywhere on youtube for a detailed description but how do you actually pull a grenade out, drop it with a shield and pick it up so quickly? Do you have to cook the grenade? Or do I need to press shield quicker? Or is there another way?

Thanks