SOVAman
Smash Hero
found something cool maybe you don't know you can also do a SH Dair instead of a Fair and that easier to land. And it puts Ike to far down to recover and it put Falco to far and maybe more still testing.
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Grab Release to Spike Against Thirteen Characters (Including MetaKnight AND Snake!)
- Thread starter Mmac
- Start date
Mmac
Smash Lord
SOVAman
Smash Hero
No homo????
Gindler
Smash Champion
One question...can snake C4 then jump then cypher as an option? Again I don't mean to rain on any parades but snake mains seem to learn fast.
Mmac
Smash Lord
O_o, Uh........ Yay?
Well, Kinda Pointless as first of all, it's very hard to do (Fastfall = Death), and even if he does, he puts himself into an Cycle which he can't escape until he either Dies, or puts himself into critical in order to do so.
Also added a neat little diagram tree of what he can do on Release
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
Sure, whatever. I've never even seen him. Do I have to say that every time. >_>
Mmac
Smash Lord
It's easy to see what he's going to do. If he jumps out right away, you can easily intercept him with a Nair, or scare him with a Fair (Both do break the Cypher Armour easily). Trust me, he's alot easier to Edgeguard than it looks
SOVAman
Smash Hero
Yes there are no exceptions.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Nope, Marth is fine.
*Sigh* if only we could do this with G&W, ROB, and Marth......
.... If only.....
i'm sure mmac will find a way to get you guys >:D
Gindler
Smash Champion
Yeah, I've hit Snake out of cypher with Nair and Fair (Bair a few times with all hits at higher percents).
Btw...Mmac love the diagram, mostly because yoshi looks so cute
But yeah looks like if snake gets back he'll either be hurt a good amount do to C4 overexposure or yoshi's barage of Nair or Fairs to keep him off.
As for the diddy thing. I don't want to be "that guy" either but I think CGing him will be difficult since there may be a banana somewhere on the field.
Btw...Mmac love the diagram, mostly because yoshi looks so cute
But yeah looks like if snake gets back he'll either be hurt a good amount do to C4 overexposure or yoshi's barage of Nair or Fairs to keep him off.
As for the diddy thing. I don't want to be "that guy" either but I think CGing him will be difficult since there may be a banana somewhere on the field.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Quick question.
Since Yoshi's grab release puts Bowser in a very bad situation, would it be possible for Bowser to time a Fortress so the invincibility frames protect him from Yoshi's spike? I wonder if it would work...
Since Yoshi's grab release puts Bowser in a very bad situation, would it be possible for Bowser to time a Fortress so the invincibility frames protect him from Yoshi's spike? I wonder if it would work...
Gindler
Smash Champion
I think he could fortress or Fair. Maybe even a bowsercide, oh even I would laugh if I was bowsercided from trying that.
MrEh
Smash Hero
I'll test it tonight. If the whole invincible Fortress thing works, then good for Bowser. If not, then it sucks to be him. ><
Any sort of Bowsercide is hilarious.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
That diagram does not make sense it really is just confusing also its not that hard to explain if they jump you jump if they don't jump you don't jump. Its not that hard to understand.
MrEh
Smash Hero
Okay, I got around to testing it. I tried to be as through as possible, to see whether or not it was actually possible for Bowser to get spiked.
Obviously, Yoshi's "run-off-the-ledge-spike" doesn't work on Bowser, but we all knew that anyway, since through Mmac's testing, only a short hopped spike seemed viable to work.
However, through some testing of my own, it turns out that Bowser can escape the short hopped spike very easily after all. What you have to do...is absolutely nothing. That's right, absolutely nothing
If you don't jump, Fortress, attack or even move, Yoshi won't be able to reach you, no matter what he does. For some godforsaken reason, Nintendo decided to give Bowser one of the fastest horizontal air speeds in the game. Because of that, Bowser could actually fast fall below Yoshi, double jump and then use the Fortress to get back on the stage. Yoshi can't edgehog Bowser either, since due to Bowser's air speed, he will actually end up on top of the ledge versus just grabbing it.
Admiral Pit
Smash Hero
Well, though Bowser is part of the list, at least Pit isnt.
bigman40
Smash Master
heh, I wouldn't expect you to post here adm XD
missingnomaster
Smash Lord
Is anyone here able to consistently spike MK from the grab release? I've been practicing, and if Yoshi is as far off the ledge as he can go after grabbing MK, this seems harder than DR.
Mmac
Smash Lord
MrEh, What about a Dair, if he gets hit that low, he'll probably wont make it....
MrEh
Smash Hero
If Bowser got hit by a Dair, then that's probably a guaranteed death.
I'll test it, and see if it's possible. I think the Fortress out prioritizes Yoshi's Dair, but it could very well be the other way around.
Sharky
Smash Master
Just did some testing of my own, Bowser can definitely get back if he wants to.
Snake's is pretty tricky, too, if he doublejumps and cyphers. I don't think it's guaranteed KO then. Just my opinion.
On another snake note, nothing terrible bad, but something to watch out for. He can throw a grenade at you if he double jumps, falls a bit, then cyphers. If you get hit by it and it stays by the ledge, it will blow up when he's in your mouth again. It's pretty easy to dodge, though. Just something worth mentioning.
Snake's is pretty tricky, too, if he doublejumps and cyphers. I don't think it's guaranteed KO then. Just my opinion.
On another snake note, nothing terrible bad, but something to watch out for. He can throw a grenade at you if he double jumps, falls a bit, then cyphers. If you get hit by it and it stays by the ledge, it will blow up when he's in your mouth again. It's pretty easy to dodge, though. Just something worth mentioning.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Thats why I put Bowser in the Effective List. It works well, but he still has plenty of options of making it back.
And if he DJ/SJ Cypher's, the point is to scare him with a Fair, or even hit him altogether, or to Push him back with a Nair so he has to go for the ledge.
And if he DJ/SJ Cypher's, the point is to scare him with a Fair, or even hit him altogether, or to Push him back with a Nair so he has to go for the ledge.
Scala
Smash Ace
when you dair lucas, do you do a full jump or half-jump? it doesn't seem like a guaranteed dair to me at all...
Mmac
Smash Lord
Shorthop. and it's only guaranteed if you react right away. Just like the majority of the others
Sharky
Smash Master
Hit him with the fair/nair and he gets to cypher again unless you nail the cypher just right, so he's gotta have a decent amount of damage for that to work properly.
Mmac
Smash Lord
I mean if you grabbed him, and if he didn't use his Double Jump yet.
Like if you're Chaingrabbing him.
Like if you're Chaingrabbing him.
Sharky
Smash Master
Yeah, so he'd doublejump and cypher, you hit him out of the cypher with the nair, he uses cypher again, ends up high enough to float to the middle of the stage. Same issue with fair, unless he's got a decent amount of damage.
Mmac
Smash Lord
Remember, his Turning Speed Is TERRIBLE! The Fair/Nair will knock him away a good back (or Down), and he has to spend a Third of the time on the Cypher turning.
Sharky
Smash Master
So then it comes down to what percentage launches him too fast to return.
Mmac
Smash Lord
No, you want him to go for the ledge.
Gindler
Smash Champion
So I went to a little ***** and giggles tourney today and tried the thing on snake and MK. Snake did work to well at all for some reason, but I did get the release to spike on the MK and he said he literally couldn't do anything. Why did I ever doubt Mmac?
SOVAman
Smash Hero
I went to a tourney the other day and I versused a Falco like 3rd round I beat him on Yoshi's Island then he counter picked Final D and I was so happy all I did was Pivot Grab then CG them to the edge then Release spike it was so fun and the funny thing is he said "I didn't know Yoshi could do that." So I just started laughing when he said that.
That is my release spike story.
That is my release spike story.
Gindler
Smash Champion
Just thought I'd say that the fox one doesn't seem to work out too well. Works on human opponents but then I tried in training with a lvl 3 set to stand/stop and all they did was fall a bit while i whiffed my Fair then he midairjumped to firefox and was unscaved. May I ask what I did wrong? I did exactly what i do to falco humans and comps (which works awesome) but fox doesn't seem to walk into it as easily.
Mmac
Smash Lord
I noticed that too when I played a Fox recently. However, A work around is to do a Falling Dair.
Word of Caution. Fast Fall Dair = Death. What you need to do is to lightly ease your way to down, halfway in, so that you don't fast fall and kill yourself.
Thats pretty much inescapeable, and I'm sure it will work on Sheik also
Word of Caution. Fast Fall Dair = Death. What you need to do is to lightly ease your way to down, halfway in, so that you don't fast fall and kill yourself.
Thats pretty much inescapeable, and I'm sure it will work on Sheik also