Grab, Fthrow (carry on back) release ICG?

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I was doing some friendlies when I grabbed them with DK, but them on my back, jabbed them, and when he escaped, I was able to keep regrabbing him. I think this may be a possible CG, unless if this is already discovered. If it's already known, then sorry. It might only work on a select few characters. The character that I've tried it on so far is Bowser. Also, when they are released, you don't have to move forward to regrab, you can just stand in place and regrab, so I guess its actually an infinite (you might have to walk a little forward though if the grab gets stale, but if you jab 2 times each time then it won't the grab range wont get stale. But either way, if you do have to move forward, or if the animation used just to grab the opponent causes you to be 'slid' forward slightly, its very little. For example, marth CGing ness or lucas, when he regrabs, he moves slightly forwards do to how his grab works.)

Any comments will be great If this is already discovered, please don't flame. I just started playing lots of DK a week ago.

 

[magikguy]

yeah this was discovered already .

 

[Ragnar0k]

At first I saw this thread and thought "I don't remember making that thread." Then I realized you were a name thief.

But what you're speaking of only works on Ness and Lucas IIRC. And you have to turn around while they're on your back before they get off and then turn around and grab them. Yes it is an infinite.

 

[i1337]

^^what the real ragnarok said, only on ness and lucas.

 

[fromundaman]

Wow... that's kind of gay... so basically if I got this right, when DK grabs Ness or Lucas, that's pretty much a stock off?

 

[B0mbe1c]

I tried something that works on MK at low %s.
Grab -> Cargo -> auto-release -> Repeat. Kinda like w/ The PSI boyz.

 

[PKNintendo]

Wow... that's kind of gay... so basically if I got this right, when DK grabs Ness or Lucas, that's pretty much a stock off?

No... Seriously DK mains are so old.

It's an outdated myth. Lucas can escape the rergab. DK must also spin around like a maniac. With the Super Grab Break (Spin the Control stick in a 360 manner, and flicking the C-stick) I can get of DK's back with Lucas to escape the regrab AND sometimes escape the downsmash.
(it's luck really, the DK players spins around like an idiot, and waits for Lucas escape, and downsmash if he DI's wrong. Unknown to most DK mains, this works on other characters too.)

Ness is similar, yet he's Distance with good DI isn't as good. A spinning DK will (like Lucas) miss the downsmash if he spins around and Ness DI's properly, but get hit if he DI's improperly. Really, Super Grab Break doesn't make that tactic a threat. If you don't know what the SGB...

Search it up.

 

[fromundaman]

Thanks for the info PK! Looking up SGB now :D

 

[PKNintendo]

Thanks for the info PK! Looking up SGB now :D

No need dude.

Super Grab Break

Thanks again to Ref for this. You can always rely on him for new stuff.

This is AMAZINGLY useful. It heavily decreases the amount of damage you take from a deathgrab, maximizes your distance, and can support surprise breaks. You may get grab released earlier than the opponent may expect and they may mess up with the next grab or pummelling.

Now remember the science behind grab breaks. Every button press makes you get closer to the grab break, and so does every rotation of the control stick. The C-stick really helps for some reason also, probably because it is inputting 2 commands at once.

To do it, have the C-stick set to specials or smashes (tilts may also work). Now rapidly spin the control stick smoothly, and tap the C-stick repeatedly. Remember to let the C-stick go back to the neutral position. I reccommend flicking the C-stick. If you B-stick (and probably if you tilt also), you have to smash the stick to maximize the effect.

Spin control stick and flick C-stick, got it?

And remember to use this even outside of the deathgrab. It could make people overestimate how long they can pummel you and allow you to escape a throw.

 

[CBK]

What a noob I'm telling you MR. PK you have no Idea what your talking about the Ness and lucas with proper DI after the turn around can't move as far away as most characters do. And as for their recovery animation it, not the di not DK's range is what allows Dk to regrab him. Sure you can say if you DI you can escape...no the fact is you can turn around once and stay in the same spot without turning and they can't escape. Now if you cargo and stand there then yes they can escape, but once you turn around they are no longer getting the adequate distance they need to do escape the next throw.

It's the exact same with marth.

 

[Ref]

Just DI away, the thing is DK's dashing grab motion is too slow. He can't grab Ness with it before Ness can spot dodge.

Because DK holds Ness so high Ness can DI further.

 

[CBK]

No see the way that works is ness can't move until his animation is done and you don't need to run grab just walk grab and it grabs again. I realize you must be thinking he is dash grabbing but it's a simple step grab that is really quick and has good reach. Not to mention if they get behind the turn around grab is one of the best in the game for Dk. Huge range and quick that is why this works.

 

[Ref]

Nope DK's standing grab can't reach Ness if he DI's away. He has no choice but to dash grab if he wants a chance to re grab Ness. Even still it won't be fast enough.

Go test it with HUMAN players. CPU ones will probably get caught by this.

 

[i1337]

uh, yes it can...

 

[Ref]

The dashing grab can reach ness but Ness can spot dodge it. Reaching if your opponent can dodge it is useless.

Example: I play Ness and I can grab release to F air, Sure the f air can reach but the opponent can avoid or shield it, so it's pretty useless right?

And with that laggy dashing grab you will probably get punished...

 

[PKNintendo]

What a noob I'm telling you MR. PK you have no Idea what your talking about the Ness and lucas with proper DI after the turn around can't move as far away as most characters do. And as for their recovery animation it, not the di not DK's range is what allows Dk to regrab him. Sure you can say if you DI you can escape...no the fact is you can turn around once and stay in the same spot without turning and they can't escape. Now if you cargo and stand there then yes they can escape, but once you turn around they are no longer getting the adequate distance they need to do escape the next throw.

It's the exact same with marth.

Facepalm. Headesk. Sigh, whats the point. Turning around once DOES NOTHING! You must turn around ALOT of times. Ness cpu are *******. Sigh, it's like trying to reason with DK...

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

The dashing grab can reach ness but Ness can spot dodge it. Reaching if your opponent can dodge it is useless.

This technique calls for the pivot grab, which has the best range of all the grabs. I think it's why DK is supposed to turn around; he can pivot grab immediately so Ness and Lucas don't escape even with proper DI.

Then again, I could be talking out of my ***, I've never actually tried this before.

 

[PKNintendo]

This technique calls for the pivot grab, which has the best range of all the grabs. I think it's why DK is supposed to turn around; he can pivot grab immediately so Ness and Lucas don't escape even with proper DI.

Then again, I could be talking out of my ***, I've never actually tried this before.

You need to move for a pivot grab do you not? He doesn't have the space or the time. He needed to act NOW!

 

[CBK]

Okay first of all you don't have to move to pivot grab, you turn around and you move while you turn, I know you think you know you don't.

 

[PKNintendo]

Okay first of all you don't have to move to pivot grab, you turn around and you move while you turn, I know you think you know you don't.

Dude you are NUTS!

I've just retested this tech last night. I COULD NOT CHAIN GRAB NESS OR LUCAS!

Turning around DID NOTHING! I had to turn around several times so Ness could mess up his DI.

Dk can run away and do damage better than Wario can chase and punish. I'll take a bite while I deal like 40 damage, Dk is the best air dodge dodge punisher in the game.

Look don't listen to that PK guy he doesn't know what he's talking about I want to show him. If I could know where he lives I'd show him he's totally talking out of his *** when talking about this subject. Either he doesn't know how to regrab correctly and assumes because he can't do it, that it's not possible.

Just telling you that it's easy and it's n
ot hard and he doesn't understand the cargo grab at all, play DK and then talk to me.

Something tells me you
a)live on your own
b) have no one to brawl with at your house
c) play people who aren't that good.

Just. Stop.

Please, your making yourself look stupider than ever. And stop calling me by these pet names, like Mr. PK, or Pk guy.

 

[CBK]

Jeez man I hope you don't think Nor-Cal and So-cal players are nothing I mean I've played the best people around. I'm part of RenoSmash, but I guess that doesn't mean anything right.

Look Pk Tell me whats the next big, and I don't mean the next gamestop tourney. I mean something where multiple people from different states are going so I cna go show you up with your main and show you how this infinite works. Trust me it works it's too easy, I'd ask myself what I was thinking if I was you. You have no concept of the character if you can't chain throw Ness or Lucas.

 

[PKNintendo]

Jeez man I hope you don't think Nor-Cal and So-cal players are nothing I mean I've played the best people around. I'm part of RenoSmash, but I guess that doesn't mean anything right.

Look Pk Tell me whats the next big, and I don't mean the next gamestop tourney. I mean something where multiple people from different states are going so I cna go show you up with your main and show you how this infinite works. Trust me it works it's too easy, I'd ask myself what I was thinking if I was you. You have no concept of the character if you can't chain throw Ness or Lucas.

No U!

But seriously, I can't trust you.

Who mains Ness?

*Me

Who has ACTUALLY played as Ness

Me

Who is the master at testing grab related problems? Me. And call me PKNintendo please.

Listen to me for A SECOND!

It is NOT a grab release smash 100% of the time
It is NOT an infinite


It is a grab release Downsmash 50% of time. Depending where Ness DI's from.
Stop being in denial. This is coming from the guy who shrugged of Wario's Chain grab from 0-110%, and made some crap about Wario never grabbing DK.


I think your mentallity CBK is that you can't accept that DK is imperfect. You want every Ness main to cower in fear, about a grab release that you THINK is good. It doesn't matter if you used it on a person before.

LEARN 2 DI . Say that to them. Seriously, Im done arguing with you. I know DK is better than Ness, and Lucas. But do you think so? Of course, but I think you think that I think Ness is almighty. He isn't, and the reason why Smashboards is so ****ed up right now, is from mispreading information. Play the **** game and test it with someone, instead of arguing with me.

 

[CBK]

GOt it so I'm correct thats all I wanted to hear.

Look PKnintendo I don't really care to argue or to flame my bad if I did so, I just get angry when someone tries to disproove of what I know can't be DI'd out of. Why is it that Marth can grab and Not DK, DK has a longer grab range than Marth and almost as quick. So your right we should stop arguying it's not really important, everyone that has tested the correct grab timing will know and those who don't won't.

 

[PKNintendo]

GOt it so I'm correct thats all I wanted to hear.

Look PKnintendo I don't really care to argue or to flame my bad if I did so, I just get angry when someone tries to disproove of what I know can't be DI'd out of. Why is it that Marth can grab and Not DK, DK has a longer grab range than Marth and almost as quick. So your right we should stop arguying it's not really important, everyone that has tested the correct grab timing will know and those who don't won't.

Um, your not correct. Anywho, Marth has a FASTER grab than DK. And it's NOT an infinite on him too!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=200648

DK may have the range. I did disprove you.
Unless you KNOW that DK doesn't have an or a chain grab or a grab release downsmash always. (it's luck based, you spin around like a monkey, I DI the right way, I escape the smash, DI the wrong way, I get hit. What is so hard to understand about that!)

 

[ook]

:embarrass long post alert, lol :embarrass



Alright, maybe I'm missing something here, but why would you "spin around like a monkey?"

As far as I know, when you grab release, they're always going to break out in the direction you faced when you first grabbed them. (Yes, they can DI so they land behind you or far away or whatever. But their initial direction when they escape is the way you were facing when you grabbed them. Lemme know if that's wrong, but I'm pretty sure....)

So, if you just turn around once so you face the opposite direction, they break out the opposite way and have to go "over" you. So they can't get far enough away to avoid the dsmash (or another grab, maybe.) That's how this whole thing works.


If you spin around, you're right, it's essentially a 50-50 whether they're going to "DI the right way" (which in actuality, is YOUR way that you're facing when they release.)

And for the "super grab break," that's just for getting out faster... it doesn't make you DI farther or anything.





Just grab them... do a 180... let them break out.
If they DI behind you, you can probably turn around and grab (not sure, I haven't tested it). If they DI in front of you, you can grab.
No matter which way they DI, you can always dsmash.


I mean, if you want, we could test some of this stuff online (I know you probably don't like playing online, but for something as simple as DIing, lag won't matter much).










what is this whole big argument about, I don't get it are you guys serious? Can someone explain the whole spinning around thing, and why you wouldn't just turn around once?

 

[PKNintendo]

:embarrass long post alert, lol :embarrass



Alright, maybe I'm missing something here, but why would you "spin around like a monkey?"

As far as I know, when you grab release, they're always going to break out in the direction you faced when you first grabbed them. (Yes, they can DI so they land behind you or far away or whatever. But their initial direction when they escape is the way you were facing when you grabbed them. Lemme know if that's wrong, but I'm pretty sure....)

So, if you just turn around once so you face the opposite direction, they break out the opposite way and have to go "over" you. So they can't get far enough away to avoid the dsmash (or another grab, maybe.) That's how this whole thing works.


When you're spinning around, you're right, it's essentially a 50-50 whether they're going to "DI the right way" (which in actuality, is YOUR way that you're facing when they release.)

And for the "super grab break," that's just for getting out faster... it doesn't make you DI farther or anything.





Just grab them... do a 180... let them break out.
If they DI behind you, you can probably turn around and grab (not sure, I haven't tested it). If they DI in front of you, you can grab.
No matter which way they DI, you can always dsmash.


I mean, if you want, we could test some of this stuff online (I know you probably don't like playing online, but for something as simple as DIing, lag won't matter much).










what is this whole big argument about, I don't get it are you guys serious? Can someone explain the whole spinning around thing, and why you wouldn't just turn around once?

Online is useless.

Anyway, the DI they have is enough to escape DK, even if they DI behind you.

 

[ook]

Alright, this is it. I just got a hold of your top



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyDFVIw_dg
This is all offline, using 2 controllers.
With Lucas, I held the direction I wanted to DI, and the shield button. No matter how I DI'd, I was never able to go far enough to get out of the dsmash range, or put up the shield quick enough.

Just demonstrating what I said, you only have to turn around once, and Ness/Lucas breaks out the opposite way. Then, no matter which way you DI, you can't escape the down smash. :/




Now, unless you've got some new revolutionary way to DI farther, and you want to demonstrate it with a video or with some playing, this is pretty much the end -- the deciding proof, and the end of this stupid DI discussion :/





I'mma stop feeding you now

 

[Ref]

Umm.. DI'ing forward shouldn't do that Ness should slide all the way away. Err. DI AWAY from DK, Sure it probably won't get that Down smash away but try DIing away. Ness should slide away from Dk.

Probably Down smash will still connect.

If you need a video of DIing away tell me I'll supply it okay?

Now this discussion is a better one.

 

[PKNintendo]

Alright, this is it. I just got a hold of your top



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyDFVIw_dg
This is all offline, using 2 controllers.
With Lucas, I held the direction I wanted to DI, and the shield button. No matter how I DI'd, I was never able to go far enough to get out of the dsmash range, or put up the shield quick enough.

Just demonstrating what I said, you only have to turn around once, and Ness/Lucas breaks out the opposite way. Then, no matter which way you DI, you can't escape the down smash. :/




Now, unless you've got some new revolutionary way to DI farther, and you want to demonstrate it with a video or with some playing, this is pretty much the end -- the deciding proof, and the end of this stupid DI discussion :/





I'mma stop feeding you now

Hmm, thats odd. I was sure I could DI away when my friend was doing it. You said you had 2 controllers? Maybe 2 people would be a better test, instead of one person.

I see it's not a chain grab like some have said. Thanks, im definetely keeping this video.

 

[Ref]

Hmm I tested the down smash thing it does seem to work. Even with away DI.

 

[PKNintendo]

Alright, this is it. I just got a hold of your top



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyDFVIw_dg
This is all offline, using 2 controllers.
With Lucas, I held the direction I wanted to DI, and the shield button. No matter how I DI'd, I was never able to go far enough to get out of the dsmash range, or put up the shield quick enough.

Just demonstrating what I said, you only have to turn around once, and Ness/Lucas breaks out the opposite way. Then, no matter which way you DI, you can't escape the down smash. :/




Now, unless you've got some new revolutionary way to DI farther, and you want to demonstrate it with a video or with some playing, this is pretty much the end -- the deciding proof, and the end of this stupid DI discussion :/





I'mma stop feeding you now

Okay I got it I found out Ness can power shield the down smash by DIing away. I'll get the video Sir.

Im confused Ref, can Ness avoid it at 75% completely, or can he only powershield it at 75%?

 

[Ref]

Ness cannot avoid it that was a mistake on my part PK Nintendo.

 

[Ripple]

as long as lucas holds the joy stick it one way constantly, it is a 50% chance to hit them. it just depends on reading their DI. if lucas just waits for the automatic break out you can just walk to the ledge and try and CSS them. this then forces them to try and get out, thus throwing off their DI and allowing you to d smash them. that's all there is to it

-Ripple out

 

[PKNintendo]

as long as lucas holds the joy stick it one way constantly, it is a 50% chance to hit them. it just depends on reading their DI. if lucas just waits for the automatic break out you can just walk to the ledge and try and CSS them. this then forces them to try and get out, thus throwing off their DI and allowing you to d smash them. that's all there is to it

-Ripple out

What about Ness?

Oh. I doubt it will work, It can help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy_1ttIB7A0

 

[Big O]

The cargo carry turn to regrab is infinite if the DK player is good enough at it but the timing is very strict. In case this rekindles some more flaming and more arguing, DK's grab is a little faster than his dsmash and since cargo carry turn to dsmash comes out faster than Ness and Lucas can block the grab is guaranteed. Turning around only takes one frame so even if they go behind him it will not matter if the DK player does it right.

 

[CBK]

I've tried to tell them, let it die. Both sides have stated their points and there is no reason to argue anymore. I know it to be an infinite if you do the grab correctly, downsmash would usually hit because of them trying crazy DI to get out of it again.

 

[PKNintendo]

I've tried to tell them, let it die. Both sides have stated their points and there is no reason to argue anymore. I know it to be an infinite if you do the grab correctly, downsmash would usually hit because of them trying crazy DI to get out of it again.

Ook showed a video about how it's a grab release downsmash. Im pretty sure if he could regrab Ness, he could.

And we can't let this die, who knows what unsuspecting DK/Ness mains get mixed up results on this?

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Ahh thanks for the info guys. Wow im surprised theres 3 pages to this thread, I thought it would just be a few posts with answers and then the thread would be deleted... lol. Well hi there Ragn0rok

And on the same day I posted this, a little after I made this thread, I forgot that what I called "Grab, fthrow (carry on back)" was called Cargo throw lol. Thx for the video And either way, just saying, even if it's not a real infinite to Ness/Lucas/others, you might consider trying it on them anyways even in a serious battle because they might not know how to escape it or may not be good at escaping it. And if you play on Wifi, it'll probably be harder for them to escape because even a slight lag could mess up their DI/dodge/etc.

Im glad no one flamed XD again thx

 

[smashkng]

Can this be called infinite throw trap (ITT) like in SSB?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

that is a random *** bump for something that really doesn't need it