Global Character Guides - Sonic

[Virgilijus]

Hello, all! For those that don't know me, I'm Virg. I moderate things. I'm also in charge of the newly founded Discussion Leader group and I had an idea sprout in my head not too long ago.

Every individual character board is quite different and many are truly contrasting. Seeing as how I'm tasked with encouraging discussion and help throughout the boards, I thought that maybe encouraging some similar layouts on each board would help new people (or board hermits) that eventually strolled into other boards. Not that they would get lost, but just that it would be easier and the process alone would be gratifying.

So with that, I'm here for a proposition (not of that kind!): a reformatting and update of the character guide, if it needs one. I see a lot of good threads...though I have a feeling some are out of date or could use some sprucing. But I digress.

So for those of you that don't want to read: I would like to try to get every character board to clean up and organize their character board guides/stickies. Some are fine as is. Others...not so much. I'm asking this for a shot of dialogue and cross communication throughout the boards as well as making the stickies less cluttersome.

So, what do you guys say? This is all voluntary. Just wanted to try to spruce the boards up a bit. If you have any opinions or questions, I'd be happy to hear them

 

[TwinkleToes]

So, in short you think people should homogenize stickies.

Well, I agree it would make things easier but only marginally so. Sounds like more work than it's worth (then again I'm very lazy).

 

[Virgilijus]

Only slightly homogenize them: they will still be different from character to character. Just trying to give the boards a little incentive to really get talking about match ups and strategies.

 

[Kinzer]

Yo Twinkles, if by homogenize you mean organizing everything into one, we already have a sticky for that - By our own discussion leader.

I'm not going to lie, some of our guides are outdated, they do have the right information (either for the time it was made or to this very day is still correct, take your pick), but more needs to be added... although I'm guilty of not doing this myself. -_- Part of the problem seems to be we - the Sonic boards/community, can't put all our focus into one place/too lazy to do anything.

Granted, there might be one thing we're all concentrating on: tournament results.

I'm not surprised either, due to the history and what this board has had to deal with, it just seems to be the answer is to apply everything we know in-tourneys, and learn what we can do better, be it in general or find ways to make MUs easier to deal with. Trying to word that as best as I can... Anyway it just seems that people don't/didn't want to listen to any evidence we had or listen to our wording; instead they wanted actual results... I can't argue with that, there seems to be no better way than to get things done.

That's great for people who are already showing expertise with sonic... but how is this going to encourage new people to try out Sonic when they can't even apply the things they see done?

...How about this, I've been meaning to do a full analysis on Sonic's moveset decay. Though the guide is actually is on AiB iand is still a work in process, I know THAT'S something I can manage... where is everybody else?

C'mon guys, it can't hurt to go out of your way even for a little bit just to help, and I don't like how we can't make any archives in the Xat. Sure it's a nice hub/hangout, but not everybody will have access to what goes on in there.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think the problem is that we learned Sonic TOGETHER. Most of us have been here since the first month. We all learned. Came up with problems. Helped each other SOLVE them and progressed. That sort of stuff gets lost in time. I think the best way TO learn is to bounce ideas off each other. Something we had when we had our old chat thread. Eventually though that got closed and we moved to our Back Room and then Xat. Xat's awesome and I love it but Kinzer is absolutely right. NOTHING gets shared outside of there.

We have a character guide already so.....what do you want us to update about it? Give us specific desires from our board and we'll try to fulfill them.

 

[aeghrur]

I personally think it's a lot easier if you just put "USE THE SEARCH TOOL BEFORE YOU MAKE A THREAD" because that's what the sonic boards are like, lol. We have tons of threads for everything and anything.
But for character guides, is Dnes still updating his? If not... we might need a new one.

 

[Kinzer]

People are lazy, don't deny this, it's just much easier for them to make a thread and get that one question answered, regardless of whether or not it's already been said and done... even if 99.9% of the time the question has been answered...

Still though, that can't be helped I think if people are too lazy to read and look through the directory, the most you can do is make it look pretty and hope they have some kind of will to look for the answer themselves.

 

[Boxob.]

I never had a problem finding anything. If anything, the only problem is the out datedness of the stickies. I think the amount of them, and what they contain is fine.

 

[Virgilijus]

We have a character guide already so.....what do you want us to update about it? Give us specific desires from our board and we'll try to fulfill them.

Essentially, we're trying to revamp the character board important threads (read: stickies) to be more encompassing and easy to read. If you guys think that everything you need is right there and is perfectly fine the way it is, then you don't really need anything. but if you guys want to take the initiative on anything in your board, nows the chance.

 

[Kinzer]

Well, if you take a look at our Matchup thread, you'll notice how each character has it's own sub-thread within the thread itself, right now our discussion leader Chis has the main page... but it doesn't help him or any of us for that matter if we can't update the sub-threads because as of now Greenstreet still manages some of/most of the sub-threads, and he as of this time... is inactive.

 

[Tenki]

In that case, I'll undo my April Fool's joke (see: side-B/down-B thread lol)

however, I'm about to leave and lose like 20 bucks so

I'll do it later.

 

[Virgilijus]

Well, if you take a look at our Matchup thread, you'll notice how each character has it's own sub-thread within the thread itself, right now our discussion leader Chis has the main page... but it doesn't help him or any of us for that matter if we can't update the sub-threads because as of now Greenstreet still manages some of/most of the sub-threads, and he as of this time... is inactive.

if you want, I can pass control of the thread (given certain limits) to more active posters who can update it...or something along those lines. I'd have to clear it first, but it would be a possibility.

 

[Camalange]

What we need is for memphis to finally just give up his tourney results thread, already, lol.

I also approve of Kinzer and Terios's post thus far.



and Tenki's, lmao

 

[Chis]

if you want, I can pass control of the thread (given certain limits) to more active posters who can update it...or something along those lines. I'd have to clear it first, but it would be a possibility.

That's not really the problem. I think Kinzer's talking about Greenstreet's posts and how we can't update them because he owns them while not be active anymore. When Xiivi was a mod he gave me control of the thread and one or two of his posts. I would suggest that I should get control of all the posts in the links so that I can update them.

 

[Virgilijus]

All right. We can do that.

 

[aeghrur]

Can we also give Espy (Puffball64) memphis's tourny thread since memphis doesn't update it anymore?

 

[Virgilijus]

We'd have to talk to memphis about it (or at least try), but we can.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Yo Twinkles, if by homogenize you mean organizing everything into one, we already have a sticky for that - By our own discussion leader.

I don't see why you think I'd mean that since homogenize doesn't mean combining into one. I'm not ******** man I, and I have looked at other stickied threads than my own

...How about this, I've been meaning to do a full analysis on Sonic's moveset decay. Though the guide is actually is on AiB iand is still a work in process, I know THAT'S something I can manage... where is everybody else?

C'mon guys, it can't hurt to go out of your way even for a little bit just to help, and I don't like how we can't make any archives in the Xat. Sure it's a nice hub/hangout, but not everybody will have access to what goes on in there.

Well, people sort of need a swift kick in the arse around here to get to doing anything.

Only slightly homogenize them: they will still be different from character to character. Just trying to give the boards a little incentive to really get talking about match ups and strategies.

Well, I honestly think you're being a little optimistic about the outcome. A reorganization effort doesn't create incentive to discuss match-ups. It's kind of like trying to get two pandas to breed by sticking them in the same cage. If they don't wanna do it they don't wanna do it, and creating the opportunity means little in the face of a lack of self-motivation.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the current system where people just find stuff out when they're interested but otherwise stick to their own little spheres of influence.

 

[Virgilijus]

Several other character boards have all ready asked about revamping their character match ups and guides. So to each boards their own.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm interested and I'm sure other Sonic's are too but it's the issue of how to go ABOUT it. I can't think of anything we don't have that has any problem other than outdated stuff due to inactivity.

 

[Kinzer]

I don't see why you think I'd mean that since homogenize doesn't mean combining into one. I'm not ******** man I, and I have looked at other stickied threads than my own

I don't think there's anything wrong with the current system where people just find stuff out when they're interested but otherwise stick to their own little spheres of influence.

Then please do tell what you were trying to get at. I'll be honest though I had to use a goggle search that began with "define: ". :/

... Does this mean you don't mind people cluelessly asking the same questions that have already been attended to elsewhere and/or people having a very hard time finding what they need to find because we don't have it updated? Here's a couple of problems with the system:

For one, it's annoying for people who are knowledgeable and can't focus on the other things/ that matter because we have to go out of our way to those people that we know, can get the answer themselves if they tried.

Another problem we face with this method is that with more cluster, it makes things that much harder to keep organized, unnecessary posts gets in the way of the real information people need to be looking for and it's just annoying for anybody who is frequenting this place when you keep seeing the same thing over and over again. Nobody wants to have to deal with this.

Speaking of losing the information that matters, now it suddenly becomes a hassle just to retain what we know and prevent ourselves from having to relearn what we already know/could've been expanding on. Tenki in specific has been mentioning about how we've been coming up with "ideas" but he has made claims as to have proposed the idea before... though granted that was during our wild days where we were quite dumb and anything we really couldn't comprehend was just ignored. Still, what I've said above applies. Can you see the way how I see that this is going in a vicious cycle that won't end if it isn't fixed and will keep getting worse?

I'll say this again though, what we have out is applicable in a real-match/wherever it needs to be done... but I myself am not satisfied with the quantity of that kind of quality information. Though you are right in a few places, such as it makes a much more pleasurable visit if you don't have to go out on a limb to find what you need/want and that for an online group community we can only do so much for each other ourselves.

Let me also remind you that most of our focus is on our tourney performance, again not necessarily a bad thing... for the veterans/skilled players, no, but this makes it very hard to encourage new players to get better if they can't get the help. I know that if I want to try and teach other people about Sonic, I have to go with what I know/remember, because the information I need to back myself up is either not recorded or hasn't been written somewhere (here would be a good example) where I can refer to and credit/confirm. I would just like this place to be a little bit more "newbie-friendly," is it asking for too much when some of those newbies can learn, get good themselves, and chances are have something new to offer to the table?

...Steak is quite fine as it is though... but it needz MOAR! A1 Steaksauce and MOAR! variety to simply put it. i herd dey have happy caus in California.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Then please do tell what you were trying to get at. I'll be honest though I had to use a goggle search that began with "define: ". :/

Lol. What I was just summarizing Virg's post up and responding to it. He wrote a lot and I didn't want to do a point-by-point breakdown on something that could have been said in a sentence.

... Does this mean you don't mind people cluelessly asking the same questions that have already been attended to elsewhere and/or people having a very hard time finding what they need to find because we don't have it updated? Here's a couple of problems with the system:

Kinzer, it's not like it's an epidemic or something. We are not beset by hordes of clueless noobs like we used to be when the game first came out; so, I really don't think helping out the odd person here or there is that big of a deal anymore.

For one, it's annoying for people who are knowledgeable and can't focus on the other things/ that matter because we have to go out of our way to those people that we know, can get the answer themselves if they tried.

Seriously? It usually takes like 10 seconds to answer whatever trivial question is being asked and everyone moves on. I do not think it's as big of an annoyance that you're making it out to be.

Another problem we face with this method is that with more cluster, it makes things that much harder to keep organized, unnecessary posts gets in the way of the real information people need to be looking for and it's just annoying for anybody who is frequenting this place when you keep seeing the same thing over and over again. Nobody wants to have to deal with this.

Well, to me that's on the OP. If you start a thread on something it's your responsibility to keep track of what is said and update the first post with relevant information. And usually if that doesn't happen there are other people who take notice and just take charge of things themselves. It's not a perfect system but it's not a big deal.

Speaking of losing the information that matters, now it suddenly becomes a hassle just to retain what we know and prevent ourselves from having to relearn what we already know/could've been expanding on. Tenki in specific has been mentioning about how we've been coming up with "ideas" but he has made claims as to have proposed the idea before... though granted that was during our wild days where we were quite dumb and anything we really couldn't comprehend was just ignored. Still, what I've said above applies. Can you see the way how I see that this is going in a vicious cycle that won't end if it isn't fixed and will keep getting worse?

Maybe you're right, but quite frankly I don't see a whole lot of new info coming out to begin with. If anything hasn't been documented and spread among the masses it's typically because no real use was ever found for it.

Let me also remind you that most of our focus is on our tourney performance, again not necessarily a bad thing... for the veterans/skilled players, no, but this makes it very hard to encourage new players to get better if they can't get the help.

I strongly disagree with that. I think our focus is on making Sonic better, and for a lot of people that post here the goal has been for a very long time to get Sonic recognized as not "low tier." Obviously making the metagame better will inadvertently improve tournament performance, but I don't think this alienates the new players at all.

I know that if I want to try and teach other people about Sonic, I have to go with what I know/remember, because the information I need to back myself up is either not recorded or hasn't been written somewhere (here would be a good example) where I can refer to and credit/confirm. I would just like this place to be a little bit more "newbie-friendly," is it asking for too much when some of those newbies can learn, get good themselves, and chances are have something new to offer to the table?

I think most newbies should just watch videos of better players and when they don't understand something they can ask a question. Either that or they can post vids of their Sonic and have it critiqued. I don't see that we are anti-newbie at all unless you think being brutally honest is anti-newbie.

 

[Kinzer]

Alright, you've made some points, and on some/others I can see where you're coming from, and/but on other/some points we will have to agree to disagree, since I probably a different way of prioritizing. Still, getting somebody (active) to manage something like the MU thread can't hurt, unless somehow Greenstreet magically completed all the guides he's reserved.

 

[Chis]

The only threads which I don't think should be stickies is the chat thread. The chatroom thread isn't as important as some of the other stickies plus we have the Xat and the SBR group.

Sorry for being off topic Virg, but do you know when get a new mod?

 

[Virgilijus]

I will get on that almost instantly.

 

[infomon]

pffffft, sonic boards don't need a mod.

 

[Browny]

lets just C&P one of the GFAQS Sonic guides here, they know whats up

Can we nominate ourselves to be a mod?

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm a friend of the Pikaboards, and I was there spectating that guide of theirs from day 1.
That crap took almost half a month to finish.

I'll do whatever.
I would also like to redo Memphis' Tournament Results thread. I've already taken all of the data possible within that thread, but I need to either post a new topic or edit Memphis' original post.

 

[Virgilijus]

I'm sure us mods could help accommodate with that.

 

[Chis]

Anything else guys? Or do you think the stickies are alright now?

 

[TwinkleToes]

I don't think most people were complaining to begin with.

 

[Orange_Soda_Man]

Anything else guys? Or do you think the stickies are alright now?

tbph, I've always thought the glitch thread could be a part of the sonic guide. /suggestion

 

[TwinkleToes]

tbph, I've always thought the glitch thread could be a part of the sonic guide. /suggestion

Leave mah thread alone! D:

 

[SoupaSonic]

Do you guys know that if you're fighting a character (as sonic) that only has a good vertical recovery, when you knock them off the side of the stage you should jump once and D-Air off the side. If the attack lands then you should still have your second jump, use it and then use your spring jump. Just so you know, don't rely on this since if you mess up you'll probably self destruct.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yes, we knew that D-air is a decent gimping tool.

 

[SoupaSonic]

ok just wondering.

 

[Kinzer]

TY for at least not making another thread about it though.