Gimme a Smash History Lesson!

[samox]

Dear Smashers,

I am on a holy mission to create a spectacular documentary about our beloved game and its greatest champions. BUT I NEED YOUR HELP.

The Smash Wiki is helpful, but not nearly helpful enough. I have been trying to trace the paths of 4 of the greatest innovators - Isai, Ken, Mew2King and Mango - but with little hard data to help.

If you were there, saw it happen, or know how it all went down - please give me the skinny.

The more you help, the more impact the final product can have on the lives of the players and the community as a whole.

Thanks!

PS - Stories of other greats, like Shiz, PC, etc. are also more than welcome.

 

[Bones0]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290961

That should keep you busy for a while.

 

[samox]

Wow. No kidding. This is AWESOME. Thanks a bunch Bones.

 

[samox]

This recounting from Kish Prime seems pretty freaking thorough too.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=283271

 

[Metal Reeper]

Watch the FC6 videos, so good.

 

[GodLi]

look for chillin's thread too, he pretty much explained the entire beginnings of smash in detail

 

[Metal Reeper]

^ They were already linked. Also watch stuff like tipped off 5 videos, pbnj youtube channel is good to see the melee community.

Also the review of years 08-11 are up.

 

[Mokumo]

history of advanced techniques

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=59214&page=1&pp=15

and definitely chillin's thread, he's telling an awesome story

 

[Hydro_Smasher]

heres a personal story from me folks, everyone gather 'round the fire in the trash can

Once upon a time there was a japanese falcon player named gentlemen, and he met an american falcon player named.... ISAI at tournament go X(exact event plz)

Someone asked Gentlemen how he did the rapid jab cancel as falcon, and he said "press a twice, and when the thrid hit connects, press shield"

and Isai said "no you can just press A A Z"

so, the two players had a contest to see who could do more consecutive hits via their style, finally, Gentlemen won, and the player who asked the question said

"It's the Gentlemen!"



and thus silent spectre was born

 

[Yung Mei]

heres a personal story from me folks, everyone gather 'round the fire in the trash can

Once upon a time there was a japanese falcon player named gentlemen, and he met an american falcon player named.... ISAI at tournament go X(exact event plz)

Someone asked Gentlemen how he did the rapid jab cancel as falcon, and he said "press a twice, and when the thrid hit connects, press shield"

and Isai said "no you can just press A A Z"

so, the two players had a contest to see who could do more consecutive hits via their style, finally, Gentlemen won, and the player who asked the question said

"It's the Gentlemen!"



and thus silent spectre was born

i cried so hard tears came out of my ***.


gentleman too good

 

[Metal Reeper]

I just made a thread about this but here.

An article was written today about Ken Hoang. It's really well done and goes thorugh his entire smash career.

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/know-your-roots-ken-gets-carried

 

[samox]

I just finished reading Chillin's entire account, loads of MLG articles, scoured youtube for every little video clip of the most epic showdowns and historic moments I could find and flipped through the most recent musings of M2K, Forward, Armada and the like on the boards...

Now my eyes are bleeding and I only want more.

The only reason this thing is going to **** hard will be because of smashers like you who know the meaning of 'brothers' and are willing to share.

If you'll indulge the research phase of this project, I have a few specific questions the internet wasn't willing to readily answer for me:

1. What was the nature of the rivalry between Ken and Isai before El Chocolate Diablo? Was there any?

2. What was the most epic match up between the two (am I right in saying the MOAST 3 battle)?

3. What was the story of Isai's beginnings?

4. What was the story with Isai beating the ever loving **** out of Japan at SSB64?

5. Do you know / are you the ultimate Smash Fanboy (SSB/Melee)? Someone who could talk for hours about the past champions, strategy, etc (disclaimer: and not boringly)?

Also: If anyone has little tid bits like Hydro_Smasher's awesome little story about the origin of the Gentlemen - help a brother out and hook us up.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

^seeing how u read chillin's thread you must realize you left the early east coast out of your 4 great innovators comment in the OP, i mean Azen at least needs to be mentioned.

Also as far as i know there is no story behind isai "beating the ever loving **** out of Japan at SSB64" its just that he was and still is the best smash 64 player by a stupid margin.

Lastly dont forget that the midwest, and japan and europe also had a couple important people in their as well like bombsolider, so maybe limiting this to a big 4 is kinda short sited.

that being said i support someone trying to make a document about smash history it truly is a holy mission

 

[Metal Reeper]

Isai is world champion is SSB64. Nobody can beat him. He completly mastered the game, you get hit once, and its game over.

IDK his origin. I think there was a video I found awhile ago of Ken and Isai before they were known and this guy was like "Yeah these guys are winning this tourney" and nobody else believed him lol.

WATCH EVERY VIDEO ON THIS CHANNEL

https://www.youtube.com/user/MLGBACH

 

[Mokumo]

MLG has a lot of interviews hidden around youtube/the website among all the halo garbage. and don't forget pc chris man he was an innovator

 

[Biglard]

Maybe this post could interest you:

[url]http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12230426&postcount=130[/URL]

 

[Xianglian]

The only reason this thing is going to **** hard will be because of smashers like you who know the meaning of 'brothers' and are willing to share.

There are girls who play melee too.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I heard Ken found and trained Isai himself.

I don't actually know though.

I could probably write some things about what happened after Brawl came out until the present but I'm sure I'd miss a lot.

This is a great project though potentially and I would love to help with it if I could.

 

[Mike G]

Ken trained Isai

From what I've heard. Isai used to suck at melee until a while after TG4 where he trained with Ken for 6 months. lol

 

[samox]

Okay, here goes...

@ N.A.G.A.C.E - Absolutely. Azen will be more than mentioned. Concentrating on Isai, Ken, M2K and Mango was more of an initial starting point than anything (theirs were the videos I saw that made my eyes bug out).

This is the research phase and the themes and central players are liable to be in flux as I learn more, find the right footage and widdle away to the big themes.

The Japan part - I had heard mentioned in one of the articles I perused that Isai had visited Japan and trounced a bunch of people in SSB64 at some tourney. Didn't know if there was more to it than that.

And thanks dude - your help is appreciated.

@ Metal Reeper - Thanks man. More bleeding eyes coming up.

@ Mokumo - Yeah, looks like MLG is a key resource. I spent all last night there.

And I'm with you on PC Chris. Some of his combos just... there are no words. They should have sent a poet.

@ Biglard - LOL **** yes. Thanks a bunch. I was just starting to make a timeline - this will definitely help.

@ Xianglian - I know. But seeing as the ratio is not exactly 50 / 50 (ever heard of PC Christine?) I figured I'd go ahead and make a pun at the expense of being... PC.

I hear you tho.

@ Dr. Peepee and Mike G - No ****? Never heard that Ken trained Isai. That's my next stop.

All great stuff guys (and girl). You're already helping this thing become a reality.

The next few days will be spent doing more history work. Eventually, I'll have the big picture nailed and I can start writing this for the screen.

PS - Every last one of you who helps out gets a credit in this film. Lets make it happen.

 

[Juggleguy]

Check out my Melee in 2009 and Melee in 2010 year in review threads:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=259596
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=297413

Nothing on Ken and Isai, but there is plenty written about Mew2King and Mango.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok so there was a japanese falco whose tag was bombsolider. and he more or less created the way falco plays. Ken went to Japan and played against a bunch of japanese players and the matches against bombsolider became somewhat legendary.

I dont know if u care but i heard a pretty cool/funny story about amsah when he was new. There was a player whoes tag was captainJack and at the time he was a top player (i forget were he was from). Amsah who is now one of the best players in the world the 2nd best in europe and best sheik imo was getting into competitive smash. He saw videos of CaptainJack and was not impressed, he started saying how he could beat the captain ect ect. when they finally met amsah got wrecked, i heard captainJack even 4 stocked him with G&W. This lose seemed to only push amsah to try harder and after this he had a rapid growth and development in his game. (i am sure there is more and i forget were i first heard this story i think it is/was even on smashwiki at one time)

 

[Dr Peepee]

This forum may help

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=245

I just found it and I'm enjoying it lol.

/mad late

 

[Metal Reeper]

I would also like to help with this project.

I really wish the Smashwiki was more like....an entire wikipedia article.

 

[samox]

@ Juggleguy - Sweet! This stuff is great. Many thanks.

@ N.A.G.A.C.E - LOL 4 stocked with Game and Watch!? Priceless. I saw that match where Amsah came from 4 to 1 vs. M2K to pull out a clutch win - so incredible. Bombsoldier vs. Ken is certainly an important moment in Smash history. The man who invented Falco against the man who invented Marth.

@ Dr. Peepee - This is GREAT! Thanks a bunch. So much great stuff in here.

@ Metal Reeper - You will get your chance.

Thanks a bunch for your continued support. My wall is covered with a giant paper timeline scrawled with notes. To the casual observer, I may look insane.

More to come!

 

[t3h Icy]

My wall is covered with a giant paper timeline scrawled with notes. To the casual observer, I may look insane.

Pics .

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

@ N.A.G.A.C.E - LOL 4 stocked with Game and Watch!? Priceless. I saw that match where Amsah came from 4 to 1 vs. M2K to pull out a clutch win

hey man do u mean this match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lIcE_-tWv8? if so i want to just point out this is not against M2K.

Also i saw in a thread that captain Jack was from Japan (i for some reason always think hes from Europe)

 

[samox]

@ t3h Icy - Okay.

@ N.A.G.A.C.E - Good catch. I saw that "K" and my mind was like "I'll just ad an M2 before that". Thanks.

 

[samox]

Blast these tubes!

 

[samox]

Been watching LOTS of Bach's stuff. Looks like he's making / made a pretty cool smash doc of his own called "Bring Your Own Controller".

He's definitely a resource I intend to befriend and beg incessantly for some of his footage.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

yo man watch the triple posts u can get a infraction for that just use edit for now on. (i got in trouble for it when i was new here)

 

[The_Doug]

Oooh, a history thread. I'll chime in and help out a bit where I can with the Norcal stuff.

Real quick shout@MikeG and Dr. PeePee - Isai was always viewed as being really good with unbelievable potential in Norcal tournaments and bi-weeklies in 2002. He was the most technical player at the time Norcal had in Melee. It's like people saw the talent he had and knew it was just a matter of time. I like to say Ken had a hand in 'fine tuning' Isai's skill as opposed to saying he and his crew 'trained' him because Isai was very, very good even before Ken entered the scene.

Early 2002 - For TG3 and earlier I suggest getting in touch with Scamp or Zelgadis.

Mid/Late 2002 - I would argue Isai was the most technical player in the US at the time based on his fairly good placings in tournaments. More important to me however was at all of these tournaments he would get a crowd behind him watching his friendlies and tournament matches mostly because he did some really cool technical stuff.

Late 2002 - A certain player, alias is Manacloud, emerges on smashboards and starts issuing challenges stating he and his brother will beat anyone/everyone at teams, and that his brother will beat anyone 1v1. Inevitably there is a fair bit of trash talk on the boards culminating in a few $50-100 money matches when Norcal's best drive down to meet Socal in a showdown. All of the 'high stakes' games were played one set at a time behind closed doors so the players wouldn't be able to watch and learn each others' styles. We later learn who "sephirothken" is and that he wins every single set.

TG4 - *Ken dominated this tournament*. Eddie (Ganon) from Chicago was the only person to beat him in a set in Melee which was a $50 money match. Ken also had an epic SSB64 set with Isai which got a ton of hype, with Isai managing to pull a close win Bear in mind no one could take more than 1 or 2 stock off Isai in 64. Fast forward 9 years and Isai is still the best at 64. Dayum...

Early 2003 - Isai went to live with Ken and family for a while in Southern California. I'm not actually sure if he went there on weekends, or spring break, or just at random intervals. Regardless this was when he started beating everybody in Norcal except Jeremy (Recipherus) and started using Captain Falcon in bi-weeklies.


*There were DVD's that were created and sold for $20 for each of the TG's (Tournament Go). Among all the tournament matches is some pretty cool camera footage. TG3 and specifically TG4 have some good stuff.

 

[-ACE-]

Nice doug. Eddie beat ken in a mm, that's epic lol

 

[Mike G]

Well, manacloud told me that ken trained him. so..yeah. shoulda took that with the smallest grain of salt lol


Good **** for the info, Doug.


We seriously need more northeast and south history in here


EC(10 stock no items) vs WC(5 stock items) days lol

 

[samox]

@ N.A.G.A.C.E - Whoops. I'll use edit from now on. Thanks.

@ The_Doug - Dude, you are the history master! Norcal / Cal history in general is kinda spotty, so you're a big help. Gotta get my hands on one of those TG dvds. BTW: You had a heroic sheik at the FC3 crew battle.

Did that crew battle finally put to rest the WC vs. EC **** talk? Seems like it was the biggest head to head in that contentious debate.

 

[ES Lite]

Once upon a time when Lite picked samus in the character select screen...

WIN SCREENS. WIN SCREENS EVERYWHERE.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

hey i thought of something u should maybe look into. in i believe 2007 there was a falco player named forward who at the time might of been the best falco around, and if not the best he was on the short list for best. anyway in 2007 he traveled around the country playing smash, in fact if i remember right he payed his way around the country using his smash winnings. I happened to be at a NY tourney hosted by Wes (i think wes hosted not bum not sure) that forward showed up to, but i was very bad back then and i doubt anyone remembers me lol. anyway i am sure there is some good story's and history there. Forward still plays a bit and he lives in Arizona so i am sure u could get some more info from other AZ smashers or maybe even get in contact with forward through some AZ smashers. not sure if this is helpful but just wanted to through this out there in case u want to fallow this up.

 

[ES Lite]

Yeah you should definitely make sure you cover each part of the USA and other countries as well.

 

[The_Doug]

@ The_Doug - Dude, you are the history master! Norcal / Cal history in general is kinda spotty, so you're a big help. Gotta get my hands on one of those TG dvds. BTW: You had a heroic sheik at the FC3 crew battle.

Did that crew battle finally put to rest the WC vs. EC **** talk? Seems like it was the biggest head to head in that contentious debate.

Haha thanks. I just try to set the record straight where I can. It bugs me to no end when I hear smashers talking about twisted or farcical versions of smash history.

There was still trash talk that lingered on for a while after the main event at FC3. Some of the WC refused, or could not be found, to sign the $1 dollar bill (pride prize) that Wife probably framed and hung on his wall. Some other johns and arguments I fondly remember:
"Wife was both the team captain and an alternate and didn't play in every battle."
"WC did not know about alternates and did not use any alternates."
"The rules were hazy regarding picking random and also writing down which character were 'forced' to play as."
"Arizona should have been given a choice as to which region to play on."

The main things people remember are that the east coast won and Ken caught on video stating the east coast is better.

I've thought about doing my own smash history write up from my own point of view. Something like Chillin's. Maybe in a couple of years.

 

[samox]

@ N.A.G.A.C.E - I've heard about Forward's amazing Falco and actually read his 'memoir'. He's an absolutely fascinating part of the history and I have every intention of including him (especially because of that whole "journeyman smasher" episode of his).

There's so much potential in these stories - I feel like you could recast the whole thing as an anime and it would be legendary.

@ Lite. - I know. I haven't even started on the Mid-West history yet, let alone Europe and Japan. Like any documentarian worth his salt, I'll eventually be forced to widdle away superfluous stories in exchange for representative ones. Otherwise this thing will go on for 6 hours.

@ The_Doug - I overheard a lot of trash talk coming from the EC and not much from the WC. Would it be accurate to say that was representative of a bigger divide in ideology and attitude between the two coasts?

Was there a big difference in how WC and EC viewed the game / treated each other?