Gerudo -> Forced rising

[Z1GMA]

Probably common knowledge...
At certain tilting stages (Lylat Cruise, etc...) Gerudo -> Jab forces the opponent to rise up, because they get hit by the weakest part of the Jab-hitbox (which has Jab Lock Attributes).

This occours when you're close up upon your foe while Jabbing.
I doesn't seem to work on "skinny" chars.
D3 is among the better opponents to try this on, since he's fat AND gives you a couple of extra frames to work with.

Now here's the deal:
If we could find a way to do this at stages with no tilting, like Final Destination, things would get ugly.

What we'd need is some sort of hyper fast movement towards the Gerudo-falling-opponent, and then Jab right out of it - Wave Dash Style.
...Or maybe something that's similar to our Pivot Fsmash.

What do you guys think?

 

[TP]

If your opponent DIs toward you, maybe you could turn around and jab and your should would get them?

 

[Bahamut777]

I think this can only be done if we could pivot the Jab on time or use that spotdodge-sliding-backward bug...
Very hard, IMO, to do on slopeless stages D:

It would be a dream come true, tho'...

 

[PK-ow!]

True pivot forward -> Jab.

Only going to work on someone fat like Dedede, don't get your hopes up.


I can test. I can actually True Pivot semi-reliably with Ganon, Falcon, and Marth.

 

[thexsunrosered]

If this really happened, Ganon would be unstoppable if he ever landed a Gerudo. That would be like DDD CG except it would be even better because it would stale two moves instead of one, refreshing the our kill moves at the opportune time after our purple punching ****

 

[Superspright]

This is a theoretical forced chain choke. If we could get this, then the longer the stage the better. One choke leads to unholy damage and KO. This could always lead into stutter step fsmashes afterward and kill from the edge every time. I doubt this is possible, otherwise Ganon is jumping tiers hardcore.

 

[Z1GMA]

Could someone link a tuturial-vid on that "True pivot forward"-thingy ?

 

[Triforce of Death]

If this were to ever work...

 

[Bahamut777]

True Pivot. It's possible because of Ganon's slow and short Dash starting animation. But it probably will only work on DDD or Bowser or, if we're lucky, Snake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162220

 

[PK-ow!]

When you get the hang of the True Pivot, it feels ... somehow... like you're moving the control stick in a circle. Even though it just goes from one end to the other.

You tap in a direction to run.
You then move the control stick back, including part of the way to the other direction.
You then bring the stick to neutral, which I do by just letting it reset there.


I think the key, for the game, is that the speed of the first tap is the same as the speed of the second tap, but you mustn't input a full dash dance.


It may help to first see it by screwing around with DDing. I DD a lot as Captain Falcon when in the wifi waiting room, and of course, by the Law of Averages combined with my Human imperfection, sometimes it comes out as a True Pivot. That was how I first got the feel of how it really works - the explanations posted around didn't help at all.

*~*~*~

I'll be testing later this afternoon. Somehow I doubt Ganon will reach.

By the way, if it wasn't clear, the idea is that you would be hitting with the back of the Cuff hitbox (since the True Pivot turns you around), knocking D3 behind you, then you'd turn around and Choke.



EDIT:


Ehhh, it's not possible at all.
To get the sour spot, you have to get closer to the opponent.
But after a choke, you're already as close as you can be.

Elevation changes allow Ganon to be closer to the enemy's center without pushing the enemy away. There's just now way to beat this with running; all running and walking will push the enemy forward as you move.

 

[Z1GMA]

When you get the hang of the True Pivot, it feels ... somehow... like you're moving the control stick in a circle. Even though it just goes from one end to the other.

You tap in a direction to run.
You then move the control stick back, including part of the way to the other direction.
You then bring the stick to neutral, which I do by just letting it reset there.


I think the key, for the game, is that the speed of the first tap is the same as the speed of the second tap, but you mustn't input a full dash dance.


It may help to first see it by screwing around with DDing. I DD a lot as Captain Falcon when in the wifi waiting room, and of course, by the Law of Averages combined with my Human imperfection, sometimes it comes out as a True Pivot. That was how I first got the feel of how it really works - the explanations posted around didn't help at all.

*~*~*~

I'll be testing later this afternoon. Somehow I doubt Ganon will reach.

By the way, if it wasn't clear, the idea is that you would be hitting with the back of the Cuff hitbox (since the True Pivot turns you around), knocking D3 behind you, then you'd turn around and Choke.



EDIT:


Ehhh, it's not possible at all.
To get the sour spot, you have to get closer to the opponent.
But after a choke, you're already as close as you can be.

Elevation changes allow Ganon to be closer to the enemy's center without pushing the enemy away. There's just now way to beat this with running; all running and walking will push the enemy forward as you move.

I may be a little optimistic here, but it might be some other way of which we do not know.

Most likely not, but you never know.

 

[Bahamut777]

How about just turning around and jabbing?
Not a True Pivot, just a turn around... o_o

 

[PK-ow!]

How about just turning around and jabbing?
Not a True Pivot, just a turn around... o_o

We have the Jab hitbubble now. (Nice timing)

It's not close enough... and nowhere near low enough.


Actually, one thing I'm interested in is, of Ganon's dtilt, that tiny little hitbubble right around his crotch.

Looks like the bulge is back. [/Melee reference]

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I may be a little optimistic here, but it might be some other way of which we do not know.

Most likely not, but you never know.

A Ganon main, being optimistic...?

We have the Jab hitbubble now. (Nice timing)

It's not close enough... and nowhere near low enough.


Actually, one thing I'm interested in is, of Ganon's dtilt, that tiny little hitbubble right around his crotch.

Looks like the bulge is back. [/Melee reference]

I'll definitely have to test this. I will find a way.

 

[PK-ow!]

.... just to follow up on something,

who of us can True Pivot with Ganon now?


I firmly believe, in my recent experience, that the True Pivot is... well, pivotal to Ganon's game.

Ganon is a tech-intensive character. You know, on top of the requirement that you basically have to read your opponent like a children's book, you have to execute a lot of these universal ATs consistently, and frequently, and consecutively.

Our Salmon Smash is just the frontrunner of that truth.

Then came Ray's pivot grabs.



It's all in the dash, people.

 

[Dekar173]

pivot dancing is EXCELLENT for keeping chainchokes going.

 

[Z1GMA]

.... just to follow up on something,

who of us can True Pivot with Ganon now?


I firmly believe, in my recent experience, that the True Pivot is... well, pivotal to Ganon's game.

Ganon is a tech-intensive character. You know, on top of the requirement that you basically have to read your opponent like a children's book, you have to execute a lot of these universal ATs consistently, and frequently, and consecutively.

Our Salmon Smash is just the frontrunner of that truth.

Then came Ray's pivot grabs.



It's all in the dash, people.

As well as DAD's "BDC" (Buffered Dash Cancel).

 

[Z1GMA]

Dp ....................

 

[thexsunrosered]

.... just to follow up on something,

who of us can True Pivot with Ganon now?


I firmly believe, in my recent experience, that the True Pivot is... well, pivotal to Ganon's game.

Ganon is a tech-intensive character. You know, on top of the requirement that you basically have to read your opponent like a children's book, you have to execute a lot of these universal ATs consistently, and frequently, and consecutively.

Our Salmon Smash is just the frontrunner of that truth.

Then came Ray's pivot grabs.



It's all in the dash, people.

I resent that you refer to it as Ray's pivot grab when I'm the one who could do it first and show'd him how >_>

Also, the upsmash OoS is useful too

 

[Z1GMA]

Also, the upsmash OoS is useful too

Srsly... It's great for punishing 'Climb Up Attacks'.

Usmash OoS -> Dair Spike.

 

[Breezy]

Glide toss one of Wario's wheels at his *** when you land a gerudo. Force's a stand up. Give's you time to re-grab the wheel and gerudo again. Continue until high percents and charge the **** out of an Fsmash. Hell, by that time a stomp would probably be fresh enough to kill him.

10lolwario's

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

This works on Link the best for me, whenever he throws his boomerang I try to get a Gerudo in just at the right time so it pushes me forward a bit after Link blasts to the ground. Sometimes the boomerang pushes you just the right distance to hit with the sourspot. I've done this a couple times but the boomerang doesn't look exploitable and reliable enough to get good damage on Link. besides this is Link, it's not going to be groundbreaing news for Ganon if we get it to work all the time.

 

[PK-ow!]

Okay,

just to avoid feeling silly in case other of you guys don't know this,


but a really great thing to do on choke is to

dash back,
fox trot

then pivot the Side-B.


It escapes all wake-up attacks, even of swordsmanmen, but you have to time it.


Sometimes, you see, simply dashing back, running, and then B-reversing the Side-B doesn't get you far enough. Also, if you screw that up, you could end up with a Warlock Punch.


Also, if you're limber with your dash dancing and all that, you could catch the split moment where your opponent back rolls, and instead dash dance and chase after him. You can't Choke on reaction after that, you'll be too far away (unless it's Charizard), but you'll be close by and can stop the run, probably reset frames.

You can also substitute the choke with an Fsmash, and not getting the step is doing it right, here, 'cause you want to stay away, and get that elbow sweetspot.