Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[GrungeMan]

Incidentally, as we were discussing costume theory a little while ago...I found this in the Lloyd thread: View attachment 181829
Turns out Heihachi is in Pac's taunt now. That had to be a deliberate consolation prize.

Another Smash for costume falls...

Also, an additional and somewhat noteworthy update is that The Prince of All Cosmos is in Pac-Man's taunt as well according to the SmashWiki. While not a major contender (I thought he would be a fitting addition though), this does prove rather good for Lloyd assuming these taunt appearances are deconfirmations.

My confidence is really starting to grow for these Mii costume promotions, and as a result, Geno.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Virtua Fighter was pretty much the first true 3D fighting game. As the Akira assist trophy shows, the original has aged horrifically. It's ugly and the controls were notoriously clunky, with Akira being the worst character by a wide margin. Jacky is now the main character of the series and has even had crossovers with Sonic in the past.

 

[The Anigriffin]

Also, an additional and somewhat noteworthy update is that The Prince of All Cosmos is in Pac-Man's taunt as well according to the SmashWiki. While not a major contender (I thought he would be a fitting addition though), this does prove rather good for Lloyd assuming these taunt appearances are deconfirmations.

Is Klonoa in his taunts...?

 

[coolcat12347]

Does anyone have a link to the video?


EDIT: found it

 

[PhilosophicAnimal]

Virtua Fighter was pretty much the first true 3D fighting game. As the Akira assist trophy shows, the original has aged horrifically. It's ugly and the controls were notoriously clunky, with Akira being the worst character by a wide margin. Jacky is now the main character of the series and has even had crossovers with Sonic in the past.

Hold on...wasn't Jacky one of those hatch summons in Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg? I vaguely remember something like that...

(Edit: He totally wasn't. My bad, lol.)

But that explains a lot. I had no idea Jacky was such a big deal. Perhaps he's a contender now...?

Well, at least he's not Square competition.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Virtua Fighter was pretty much the first true 3D fighting game. As the Akira assist trophy shows, the original has aged horrifically. It's ugly and the controls were notoriously clunky, with Akira being the worst character by a wide margin. Jacky is now the main character of the series and has even had crossovers with Sonic in the past.

Just wondering, is the Akira assist, the only Virtua Fighter representation, in the game?

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

We've played with the idea and, honestly, costume theory is fairly solid especially when you consider all but five of the third party ones have a tangible form in Ultimate right now. Looking from the last batch:

-Inkling (playable)
-Isabelle (playable)
-K. Rool (playable)
-Chrom (playable)
-Knuckles (assist trophy)
-Black Knight (assist trophy)
-Zero (assist trophy)
-Akira (assist trophy)
-Rathalos (assist trophy/boss)
-Protoman (final smash element)

All these guys were upgraded. The five MIA third party ones are Geno (in the rumor mill), Lloyd (in the rumor mill), Monster Hunter (in the rumor mill), Heihachi (said by Sakurai to be too complicated), and Jacky (Virtua Fighter already has Akira). It's a nice coincidence. Throw Tails in there (he's a background element in Green Hill Zone but who cares) and you pretty much have the leading candidates from every third party except Konami. This is also notable because there's decent evidence that the assets from the costumes were used for the upgrades we've currently seen.

Add in: Kind of had an ephiphany on Tails yesterday during the Sephiroth discussions. I got into "who should have the honor of being the first third party secondary character in Smash" and I concluded that Sephiroth would be a hard sell for this. I then started to play around with my idea and concluded that, based on their presence in Smash and gaming culture, the Sonic series should probably have that honor and from there thought Tails (just as iconic as Mario/Luigi and Ryu/Ken) or Dr. Eggman (arguably the most iconic third party villain). Tails had a costume in Smash 4 and thus had usuable assets so he'd probably be the easier one to make a reality. Although the evidence isn't currently there for this, if this happened it wouldn't surprise me given this string of logic.

Yeah, I agree. Tails is arguably more iconic than most characters in the game. I as well always thought Sonic was the one that would get a second rep if we were gonna break that barrier. I think the only one more iconic than him is maybe Eggman/Robotnik. I mentioned him as a boss, but could you imagine if he was playable? "Your not gonna get away with this!" Lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CvERHiTfx9w

 

[The Anigriffin]

Yeah, I agree. Tails is arguably more iconic than most characters in the game. I as well always thought Sonic was the one that would get a second rep if we were gonna break that barrier. I think the only one more iconic than him is maybe Eggman/Robotnik. I mentioned him as a boss, but could you imagine if he was playable? "Your not gonna get away with this!" Lol

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CvERHiTfx9w

I know the track is from SA2 but for some reason I'm getting Sonic Heroes flashbacks. "TAKE THIS TAKE THIS CHAAAAARGE!!!"

 

[GrungeMan]

Is Klonoa in his taunts...?

As odd as it may be, I expect Klonoa to perhaps get a Mii Costume.. He does have some presence on various smash polls and Sakurai has given notable 3rd party franchises costumes in Smash 4 (and less notable ones too... Gilgamesh??).

 

[Fatmanonice]

Just wondering, is the Akira assist, the only Virtua Fighter representation, in the game?

Yes. Looking into it, the series hasn't had a game since 2006 but Akira and Jacky still do a lot of cameos, kind of like the Dark Stalkers characters Morrigan, Felicia, and Hsien Ko despite both being dead franchises.

 

[GrungeMan]

Yes. Looking into it, the series hasn't had a game since 2006 but Akira and Jacky still do a lot of cameos, kind of like the Dark Stalkers characters Morrigan, Felicia, and Hsien Ko despite both being dead franchises.

Aside from Geno and Banjo-K, I desperately want Morrigan (or my main Talbain) as fighters in smash, but that's a dream for another day.

Honestly, any Darkstalkers content in smash would be awesome. It's definitely one of my favorite franchises.

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

Yes. Looking into it, the series hasn't had a game since 2006 but Akira and Jacky still do a lot of cameos, kind of like the Dark Stalkers characters Morrigan, Felicia, and Hsien Ko despite both being dead franchises.

It's a shame too, Darkstalkers is a great franchise

 

[valkiriforce]

Assuming we get all third parties, Geno, BK, Lloyd, Monster Hunter, and Tails would be a pretty bright timeline. Although, I do think Rayman, Ryu Hayabusa, and Doomguy are potential wildcards.

This would be the best timeline for me: Geno, Banjo-Kazooie and Tails would be great to have. A good friend of mine was really hoping Tails would make it in, so we can only hope that he has some kind of shot at DLC. If there were a second wave of characters Rayman, Ryu Hayabusa and Doomguy would keep the hype train going for sure (and I'd also love Ninja Gaiden and Doom representation). Also it'd be kinda funny to have two different Ryu characters in the game.

 

[Zack E.]

Is Klonoa in his taunts...?

I first thought Klonoa was a Sonic character. I don't know why lol

 

[owjies]

Geno
Lloyd
Jacky / Tails
Monster Hunter
??? (Banjo / Steve?) (Hayabusa?) (Porky?) (Gen 8?)

This would be a pretty decent spread. We'd have another wave of exciting 3rd party guests and a variety of movesets. It feels a little boomer pick heavy though, although I wouldn't complain . That said, Monster Hunter has fairly broad appeal and a Gen 8 Pokemon could make a lot of sense as its game will be the first mainline Pokemon game on a home console. If Box Theory was true, then Mii Costume Theory needs to be true in order to restore balance to the universe.

 

[Zack E.]

Geno
Lloyd
Jacky / Tails
Monster Hunter
??? (Banjo / Steve?) (Hayabusa?) (Porky?) (Gen 8?)

This would be a pretty decent spread. We'd have another wave of exciting 3rd party guests and a variety of movesets. It feels a little boomer pick heavy though, although I wouldn't complain . That said, Monster Hunter has fairly broad appeal and a Gen 8 Pokemon could make a lot of sense as its game will be the first mainline Pokemon game on a home console. If Box Theory was true, then Mii Costume Theory needs to be true in order to restore balance to the universe.

Add Ninten and I'm set for the DLC

 

[The Anigriffin]

Add Ninten and I'm set for the DLC

Don't worry. I'll keep digging for him.


Though does anyone have a link to that character poll Fatmanonice was referencing a page or so ago? I'm very curious on seeing all the entries on it as well as Geno's.

 

[SSGuy]

Agreed. I have always felt Tails was a strong contender to rep Sega in Smash. I do not doubt that Shadow edges (pun intended) out Tails on popularity and that Shadow could likely make the jump from AT to echo, but aside from Luigi (and now Ken), Tails is the other historically important "player 2."

I see Tails getting in before any 3rd party villain, such as Sephiroth, Eggman, and Wily for example.

Of course, Sega owns Atlus, so speculating on a promotional Shin Megami Tensei V character would make sense. However, not much/enough is known about the game, let alone it's release, to warrant major consideration. Assuming Sakurai is not a massive Streets of Rage or Golden Axe fan, then I think it's safe to assume Tails is actually a respectable frontrunner in DLC speculation this cycle.

Assuming we get all third parties, Geno, BK, Lloyd, Monster Hunter, and Tails would be a pretty bright timeline. Although, I do think Rayman, Ryu Hayabusa, and Doomguy are potential wildcards.

If we are talking about Atlus, forget Shin Megami Tensei or Persona. Give me a Snowboard Kids character! I'll even take it as an Assist Trophy!

It does feel suspicious to see Heihachi added as apart of Pacman's taunt. Almost as if Lloyd is really the only remaining one left. Part of me would feel more confident if Lloyd was shown off before the Square Enix character just to kind of see a 'okay, now the Mii Costume is really in play' But that's all I can do at this point is remain hopeful for Geno. Now that the game is out, I won't have to stress about it as much.

 

[valkiriforce]

Though does anyone have a link to that character poll Fatmanonice was referencing a page or so ago? I'm very curious on seeing all the entries on it as well as Geno's.

Not sure about the actual poll but I know he's talking about the one from 2006 before Brawl, and there are some old threads that talk about this: https://smashboards.com/threads/characters-on-sakurais-poll.71872/

 

[slopdop]

Can't believe we're so close to release, I honestly haven't been this excited for a game in a very long time!

Regardless of what may or may not happen tonight or in the next 2+ months, it's been a pleasure being here and I hope to meet and battle fellow Genobros on the battlefield and hopefully as an actual Geno in the future. I know one of my first objectives this weekend will be hunting for that Geno spirit and proudly wearing that icon on most if not all of my online matches!

 

[GrungeMan]

I will admit though, that I have my slight reservations about Monster Hunter as DLC.

The franchise was given a Boss in WoL (in addition to an AT) in base game as adequate representation (i.e. consolation) and while I know there are some notable exceptions, I get the impression that Sakurai is hesitant to invest fully in nameless protagonists (a hesitation that I would think would give him greater pause for a third party rep especially). Also, I have heard the MH development team is rather protective of their character (citation needed here for sure, so this is just rumor on my part).

There are definitely some points in favor of MH inclusion, but base game is rather telling with regard to which companies dumped a lot of content into Ultimate (Konami and Capcom). This feels like a big hint as to which companies might take on a smaller role in providing DLC content.

Also, Ken was included in the last major reveal trailer, so I just feel like there is always the real possibility we may not see another Capcom character this DLC cycle.

Without Capcom, this would open the door to a much expected Nintendo rep or potential wild card third party.

One point I want to throw out there is that an all 3rd party DLC doesn't feel to unrealistic if the characters themselves FEEL like Nintendo characters, a theme I am sure NoJ considered. Geno, BK, and even Lloyd fit within this category.

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

If we are talking about Atlus, forget Shin Megami Tensei or Persona. Give me a Snowboard Kids character! I'll even take it as an Assist Trophy!

It does feel suspicious to see Heihachi added as apart of Pacman's taunt. Almost as if Lloyd is really the only remaining one left. Part of me would feel more confident if Lloyd was shown off before the Square Enix character just to kind of see a 'okay, now the Mii Costume is really in play' But that's all I can do at this point is remain hopeful for Geno. Now that the game is out, I won't have to stress about it as much.

It ain't happening, but I love Snowboard Kids. 2 on the N64 is my favorite

I will admit though, that I have my slight reservations about Monster Hunter as DLC.

The franchise was given a Boss in WoL (in addition to an AT) in base game as adequate representation (i.e. consolation) and while I know there are some notable exceptions, I get the impression that Sakurai is hesitant to invest fully in nameless protagonists (a hesitation that I would think would give him greater pause for a third party rep especially). Also, I have heard the MH development team is rather protective of their character (citation needed here for sure, so this is just rumor on my part).

There are definitely some points in favor of MH inclusion, but base game is rather telling with regard to which companies dumped a lot of content into Ultimate (Konami and Capcom). This feels like a big hint as to which companies might take on a smaller role in providing DLC content.

Also, Ken was included in the last major reveal trailer, so I just feel like there is always the real possibility we may not see another Capcom character this DLC cycle.

Without Capcom, this would open the door to a much expected Nintendo rep or potential wild card third party.

Yeah, from what I remember they are very protective of Monster Hunter

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

What is your guy's stance on the "your ungrateful" argument? I personally find it ridiculous and I think people kind of forget what the relationship between producer and consumer is supposed to be; but I'd be curious to pick up other view points. Who knows; maybe I AM being ungrateful.

 

[Zack E.]

What is your guy's stance on the "your ungrateful" argument? I personally find it ridiculous and I think people kind of forget what the relationship between producer and consumer is supposed to be; but I'd be curious to pick up other view points. Who knows; maybe I AM being ungrateful.

No one is being ungrateful. I would definitely be disappointed if Geno isn't in, but that wouldn't be ungratefulness. Besides, everyone is allowed to feel however they want

 

[Gum-Gum Smash]

What is your guy's stance on the "your ungrateful" argument? I personally find it ridiculous and I think people kind of forget what the relationship between producer and consumer is supposed to be; but I'd be curious to pick up other view points. Who knows; maybe I AM being ungrateful.

Well. Your a consumer, so you have every right to complain about a product that you're buying. You aren't ungrateful, just disappointed. Criticism is a good thing, as long as it's constructive. If you don't like something, don't be afraid to speak your mind

 

[JarBear]

Everyone has opinions. There are going to be those who are beyond pleased and those who are unhappy, or ungrateful, because of certain aspects or lack of certain characters.

For example, I would be disappointed if Geno is not a playable. I won't deny that. However, I would not allow that to make me view the game as "dissapointing, trash, ungrateful for it, etc."

 

[TerminalMontage]

I will admit though, that I have my slight reservations about Monster Hunter as DLC.

The franchise was given a Boss in WoL (in addition to an AT) in base game as adequate representation (i.e. consolation) and while I know there are some notable exceptions, I get the impression that Sakurai is hesitant to invest fully in nameless protagonists (a hesitation that I would think would give him greater pause for a third party rep especially). Also, I have heard the MH development team is rather protective of their character (citation needed here for sure, so this is just rumor on my part).

There are definitely some points in favor of MH inclusion, but base game is rather telling with regard to which companies dumped a lot of content into Ultimate (Konami and Capcom). This feels like a big hint as to which companies might take on a smaller role in providing DLC content.

Also, Ken was included in the last major reveal trailer, so I just feel like there is always the real possibility we may not see another Capcom character this DLC cycle.

Without Capcom, this would open the door to a much expected Nintendo rep or potential wild card third party.

One point I want to throw out there is that an all 3rd party DLC doesn't feel to unrealistic if the characters themselves FEEL like Nintendo characters, a theme I am sure NoJ considered. Geno, BK, and even Lloyd fit within this category.

They should give Ken a rathalos armor alt.

 

[GrungeMan]

What is your guy's stance on the "your ungrateful" argument? I personally find it ridiculous and I think people kind of forget what the relationship between producer and consumer is supposed to be; but I'd be curious to pick up other view points. Who knows; maybe I AM being ungrateful.

Do I believe that in the grand scheme of things we should be grateful to have such an amazing and unprecedented franchise in our lives? Yes.

However, I think this is a rather dismissive argument, generally from fans (and a couple of friends in my experience) who conflate criticizing something you love because you know it has the potential to be better with excessive complaining.

Even beyond that, Smash is a product and we as consumers are free to vote with our dollar and complain about something we PAY for.

I'll be very honest, as a 30 yr. old who doesn't really keep up with games, but LOVES smash, I too had gone through a period where I didn't want to invest in buying a switch and the game simply because I wasn't satisfied with the roster (I genuinely just want Geno and BK).

I ultimately bought the Switch bundle, but it was my right as a consumer to weigh a nearly $500 investment against the personal imvestment of long wanted characters in a character driven game. It sounds rather silly, but for some people who have been wanting characters for nearly 20 years these kind of things understandably become make or break at some point and there is nothing ungrateful about that, it's more or less frustration and fatigue imo.

EDIT: Not to psycho-analize or generalize most older gamers, but if Smash is an older gamer's main outlet for gaming, then there will always exist that feeling that certain characters from your childhood don't matter when said characters are repeatedly snubbed for inclusion. That eventually can become very offputting and I guess that is why some of that frustration comes off as rather heated or aggressive, and thus seemingly ungrateful.

As for younger gamers, I am not so sure this is the case.

 

[Datboigeno]

No one is being ungrateful. I would definitely be disappointed if Geno isn't in, but that wouldn't be ungratefulness. Besides, everyone is allowed to feel however they want

I think there’s a difference in being disappointed a character you like isn’t in and being ungrateful. I think certain fanbases have gotten a bad reputation because their character hasn’t gotten in and they end up being huge ****ters to other people or say Sakurai doesn’t care about fans and that the game is automatically trash because of it. That’s ungrateful.

 

[paper roxy]

What is your guy's stance on the "your ungrateful" argument? I personally find it ridiculous and I think people kind of forget what the relationship between producer and consumer is supposed to be; but I'd be curious to pick up other view points. Who knows; maybe I AM being ungrateful.

its ungrateful when its a gift, not when its a product

 

[valkiriforce]

I've said it before; I was sold at E3 with Wolf's return. Coming into this place for the first time revived my want for Geno from what feels like a previous lifetime ago. I will still very much enjoy Smash Bros. for what it is and I appreciate all of the hard work that goes into it, and Sakurai has made it a point to try and please the fans while also making realistic character decisions in terms of uniqueness.

As it's been said there's a difference between being disappointed in one aspect of the game as opposed to being altogether ungrateful to the entire packaged experience. It's hard to imagine people being displeased with this game seeing that Sakurai brought everyone back, he brought in some huge fan favorites that have long been wanted in Ridley and K. Rool, and we even got the Belmonts (of which I was quite surprised they brought Richter along for the ride as well). This pretty much is like a video game Avengers all packed together into one amazing experience. There's lots to be grateful for, so I don't see how being disappointed in one area is going to effect the entirety of what the game represents. I would be bummed if Geno didn't make it, but I don't have to stop supporting him in the years to come. It's gonna be like Pee Wee's Big Adventure where he saves all the animals from a burning pet shop but occasionally glances at the snakes; eventually they're gonna budge and Nintendo is gonna come running out screaming with Geno confirmed.

 

[JuryRigging]

I think there’s a difference in being disappointed a character you like isn’t in and being ungrateful. I think certain fanbases have gotten a bad reputation because their character hasn’t gotten in and they end up being huge ****ters to other people or say Sakurai doesn’t care about fans and that the game is automatically trash because of it. That’s ungrateful.

I don't know if "ungrateful" is the right word for it. I think "unreasonable" would fit that context better.

 

[alemerltoucanet]

Geno
Lloyd
Jacky / Tails
Monster Hunter
??? (Banjo / Steve?) (Hayabusa?) (Porky?) (Gen 8?)

This would be a pretty decent spread. We'd have another wave of exciting 3rd party guests and a variety of movesets. It feels a little boomer pick heavy though, although I wouldn't complain . That said, Monster Hunter has fairly broad appeal and a Gen 8 Pokemon could make a lot of sense as its game will be the first mainline Pokemon game on a home console. If Box Theory was true, then Mii Costume Theory needs to be true in order to restore balance to the universe.

If we got Tails AND Geno I'd be so happy. The only other character out of them I'd want would be Quote.

 

[Kevinhend]

I think the one thing working against Tails is the fact that we'd get a third Sonic stage.
Which wouldn't be too weird, but Sonic is already the one third party franchise with more than one stage.
Not impossible even so, but I small argument against him.

 

[domriver]

Yes. Looking into it, the series hasn't had a game since 2006 but Akira and Jacky still do a lot of cameos, kind of like the Dark Stalkers characters Morrigan, Felicia, and Hsien Ko despite both being dead franchises.

I would LOVE B.B.HOOD i wonder if she ever has a chance?
Also T-Bonne or is it Tron the girl with the big robot ? I ALWAYS picked those two characters when playing Marvel vs. Capcom. :D

I think the one thing working against Tails is the fact that we'd get a third Sonic stage.
Which wouldn't be too weird, but Sonic is already the one third party franchise with more than one stage.
Not impossible even so, but I small argument against him.

I seriously thought Tails would be in at some point - a little surprised that he isn't a playable character in Ultimate maybe the the DLC will change that?

 

[FalconFire93]

It’s almost time, guys. (I know the timing may be off, but still)

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I think the one thing working against Tails is the fact that we'd get a third Sonic stage.
Which wouldn't be too weird, but Sonic is already the one third party franchise with more than one stage.
Not impossible even so, but I small argument against him.

Maybe that could be ignored; cause Sonic arguably only has two stages because "most everywhere is here"

 

[TerminalMontage]

So do we know what time the game will be available in the US? Midnight EST? PST?

 

[ShinyReshiram]

Hhahaha I have to get up at 4AM to watch the VGA. I'm gonna do it.

I expect no new SSBU stuff to be announced tomorrow and I hope we will get anything related to Bayonetta 3 instead. But if we get any info regarding DLCs,

Geno better be in.

 

[skydogc]

So do we know what time the game will be available in the US? Midnight EST? PST?

Pacific: 5:30pm

East Coast: 8:30pm according to info online I saw.

Edit: Ohhhh damn, I misread this as the game awards! I'm very sorry. TerminalMontage