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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Fatmanonice

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What genuinely makes you so confident in Robbie Rotten though? Weren't all your sources completely/partially wrong on 5?
They were but none of my contacts have predicted Waluigi. As I complained about 5, it was practically a desert and why virtually no one made hard guesses. Given today's events, why have rumors about 6 been so damn weird? Why did so many people automatically assume it was a bonus character, many assuming without a stage or even spirits? Like I showed earlier, weirdly enough, Nintendo characters being the first DLC for each "season" is a very consistent pattern. April releases for DLC are also a very consistent pattern, suggesting a January or February announcement.

Let's theorycraft some more. Suppose my theory about promotions is right: they're going to chose one AT, one spirit, and one costume to promote. Who would be the easiest to promote? The assist trophy. Who's the most popular assist trophy for a promotion? Coincidentally, this absolutely unknown character is first party, meaning even less work and no negotiating with third parties to bring them in. See where I'm going with this?
 

Icewolff92

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Still crazy to me how Nintendo put more effort keeping Byleth a secret more than Banjo.
Well

A) Byleth is a Nintendo character, so its easier to keep that a secret since you have the risk of it slip out from someone of the other company.
B) Judging by the reaction, is it really that surprising why they kept Byleth a secret?
 

Midget Master

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I'd really like to trade Waluigi for Isaac. But I guess we'll just have to see where it goes. I do have some pretty solid confidence in Geno and Lloyd making it eventually, so even if I don't get Isaac I'll have gotten three out of my top four including Banjo, which is pretty damn nuts when you think about it.
 

Rikarte

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After todays presentation I am feeling more confident in Geno's chances than ever before. Mii costume still MIA? Already represented franchises can potentially get DLC content?! This man is getting in!
 

Lord Woomy

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B) Judging by the reaction, is it really that surprising why they kept Byleth a secret?
Honestly, I feel things would've gone over better for everyone if Byleth had leaked. People would've braced to be disappointed instead of hype levels being too high and a lot of the anger would've been taken out on some leaker (who no one, especially Nintendo) instead of Nintendo.
 

CannonStreak

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Grumbo Grumbo and @GodzillaGuy64 In that case, i should have said negative instead of angry if that makes any difference,

I'm still mad and I always will be. I'm still mad about Corrin and that was 4 years ago.
Now, let's not get over ourselves. I understand the reason, but getting mad over a video game character being in is not a mentally healthy thing to do.
 

pinshadow

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So how high are the salt levels here? Didn’t we accpet that Fire Emblem would inevitably get another character eventually?
No? Fire Emblem getting another character was pretty much the worst possible outcome in my mind honestly, and I'm saying that as someone who otherwise really doesnt care who gets in since I got the rest of the characters I really wanted in, I just despised the idea of another Corrin happenning and didn't think Nintendo was stupid enough not to learn from last time. It was pretty much the one thing I wouldn't have been ok with. Im not raging, just seething in dissapointment.
 

Loog

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Kind of kills me but today kind of solidified a number of things I've been thinking on for a long time:

-We're not getting more than two more Western characters, if that.

-With only 6 characters left, indies really are toast, especially if big companies like Ubisoft are getting hard swerved.

-Promotions will be few and far between. I'm sticking with my theory that we're getting a promotion for the most popular AT, the most popular spirit, and the most popular costume not already a character.

-Of the remaining 6, literally one will likely be a Nintendo character, whether first or second party. Rest will probably be third.

6 probably is going to be as apocalyptic as I thought it would be... If I'm right, it's going to evaporate hope for a ton of fanbases. The Purple Pie Man cometh!
So I am a bit confused is is dovahkiin no longer on the table or is he just not next in the reveals?
 
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Grumbo

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I'd really like to trade Waluigi for Isaac. But I guess we'll just have to see where it goes. I do have some pretty solid confidence in Geno and Lloyd making it eventually, so even if I don't get Isaac I'll have gotten three out of my top four including Banjo, which is pretty damn nuts when you think about it.
Here’s hoping the pass date of December 2021 is just a place holder for the year and we get him in season 3
 

Franco Geno

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Kind of kills me but today kind of solidified a number of things I've been thinking on for a long time:

-We're not getting more than two more Western characters, if that.

-With only 6 characters left, indies really are toast, especially if big companies like Ubisoft are getting hard swerved.

-Promotions will be few and far between. I'm sticking with my theory that we're getting a promotion for the most popular AT, the most popular spirit, and the most popular costume not already a character.

-Of the remaining 6, literally one will likely be a Nintendo character, whether first or second party. Rest will probably be third.

6 probably is going to be as apocalyptic as I thought it would be... If I'm right, it's going to evaporate hope for a ton of fanbases. The Purple Pie Man cometh!
Guys, our time is coming
PicsArt_01-16-07.41.36-1.jpg
 

DanganZilla5

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Now let's not get in over our heads and already talk about a third fighters pass when honestly there was a chance this first fighters pass was going to be the only one. I mean, holy heck, the more I think about it, the better it sounds that we are promised at least 6 more characters. There is a decent chance some of them will be fan favorites.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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I find Isaac fascinating, but the sheer insanity of Waluigi and how weird he could truly be amazes me, so I'd take him over Isaac even.

-shrugs-

Thooooooooooooooooughhhh, poor Toad. Literally a main playable character in almost everything Mario since Super Mario Bros 2 US Edition and he's still just a meat shield in Smash.
 
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Fatmanonice

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I'm glad 5's finally over. As soon as my theory about it being Lloyd was squashed back in November, I've just kind of been glassy eyed. Don't care about Nightmare, Sol, and Dragonborn and speculating about characters you genuinely have no attachment to sucks. For obvious reasons, these past two months have been the least fun I've had as an active Smash speculator. Good thing I'm already on meds because this ****'s depressing. On the upside, big fan favorites are likely coming from this point forward and I never have to talk about Skyrim ever again! Weird how life works out.
 

JarBear

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Actually, about the "are you mad" comment, I'm all happy since there is no Mii costume. There is a chance.

Now it all makes sense that no one knew who number 5 is since it was a Nintendo character. That's a WHOLE lot easier to keep under wraps than a third party character.

Again though, it still feels off though, especially the direction of the Fighter's Pass. But whatever, I'll have fun playing Byleth and will still keep hoping for Geno.
 

dsRed

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Honestly I don’t think more mario reps are gonna hurt, unless its more random enemies. Zelda deserves the same amount of reps imo but I think we all know how that’s turned out.
A lot of people confirmed that most of the leaks came from the 3rd party Companies. I.E Hero and square, Banjo and Microsoft. Nintendo wouldnt have really been able to do anything to stop that.
 
D

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Grumbo Grumbo and @GodzillaGuy64 In that case, i should have said negative instead of angry if that makes any difference,



Now, let's not get over ourselves. I understand the reason, but getting mad over a video game character being in is not a mentally healthy thing to do.
Nah you‘re good bro. I’m just happy that the mii costume is nowhere in sight. Our time is closer than ever.
 

SkeffVEVO

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They were but none of my contacts have predicted Waluigi. As I complained about 5, it was practically a desert and why virtually no one made hard guesses. Given today's events, why have rumors about 6 been so damn weird? Why did so many people automatically assume it was a bonus character, many assuming without a stage or even spirits? Like I showed earlier, weirdly enough, Nintendo characters being the first DLC for each "season" is a very consistent pattern. April releases for DLC are also a very consistent pattern, suggesting a January or February announcement.

Let's theorycraft some more. Suppose my theory about promotions is right: they're going to chose one AT, one spirit, and one costume to promote. Who would be the easiest to promote? The assist trophy. Who's the most popular assist trophy for a promotion? Coincidentally, this absolutely unknown character is first party, meaning even less work and no negotiating with third parties to bring them in. See where I'm going with this?
Perhaps your sources and other insiders assumed fighter 6 would be a bonus because there is one more character in this pass then the last, and Sakurai made it a semi big deal. There is also the case that Waluigi easily works as both a bonus fighter and as the first fighter for a pass.
 

Icewolff92

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Honestly, I feel things would've gone over better for everyone if Byleth had leaked. People would've braced to be disappointed instead of hype levels being too high and a lot of the anger would've been taken out on some leaker (who no one, especially Nintendo) instead of Nintendo.
I don¨t know. Smash community seems to hate Fire Emblem with a b#¤%"y passion, so I doubt it. Honestly, the best thing that they could have done would have been another Banjo situation. Add Byleth, but then you also have Geno for example. I mean, just look at Chrom. They announced him together with Dark Samus, K.Rool and the Bellmonts.

It¨s so ironic that 2 out of 3 (Robin got some good response as far as I remember due to him bringing something new to the table) unique Fire Emblem characters compared to the rest of the crew are revealed in arguably the close to the worst timing and way possible.
 

Fatmanonice

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So I am a bit confused is is dovahkiin no longer on the table or is he just not next in the reveals?
With today showing that major companies can get Mii costumes without playable characters, I'm no longer shilling for Bethesda to get a playable character. That month long slog is over and, honestly, I kind of dodged a bullet. Imagine if I had been right? I would have been immortalized in the Smash fanbase for a character I care less about than a wet boot full of chicken ****, not to mention all the "is Fatman really Todd Howard" posts it would have created.
 

Lord Woomy

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I don¨t know. Smash community seems to hate Fire Emblem with a b#¤%"y passion, so I doubt it. Honestly, the best thing that they could have done would have been another Banjo situation. Add Byleth, but then you also have Geno for example. I mean, just look at Chrom. They announced him together with Dark Samus, K.Rool and the Bellmonts.
Oh, this never would've gone over well in a million years, but it might've been a bit better!
 

OptimisticStrifer

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Kind of kills me but today kind of solidified a number of things I've been thinking on for a long time:

-We're not getting more than two more Western characters, if that.

-With only 6 characters left, indies really are toast, especially if big companies like Ubisoft are getting hard swerved.

-Promotions will be few and far between. I'm sticking with my theory that we're getting a promotion for the most popular AT, the most popular spirit, and the most popular costume not already a character.

-Of the remaining 6, literally one will likely be a Nintendo character, whether first or second party. Rest will probably be third.

6 probably is going to be as apocalyptic as I thought it would be... If I'm right, it's going to evaporate hope for a ton of fanbases. The Purple Pie Man cometh!
.....are a lot of characters gonna get costumed with Waluigi?
 

Icewolff92

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Oh, this never would've gone over well in a million years, but it might've been a bit better!
That's why I¨m saying that they should have revealed at least one or two fan-favorite (and not adding Chrom in the first place). This is coming from someone that is actually stooked for Byleth and looking forward to trying him out btw.
 
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Franco Geno

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With today showing that major companies can get Mii costumes without playable characters, I'm no longer shilling for Bethesda to get a playable character. That month long slog is over and, honestly, I kind of dodged a bullet. Imagine if I had been right? I would have been immortalized in the Smash fanbase for a character I care less about than a wet boot full of chicken ****, not to mention all the "is Fatman really Todd Howard" posts it would have created.
"Hello fellow users from the Geno thread, it's me your good ol' buddy Fatman and i wanted to ask you a question. have you ever heard of Skyrim? it's really good and you should buy it.
PicsArt_01-16-08.00.59.jpg
btw nice to see you again Grumbo Grumbo
 
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Loog

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With today showing that major companies can get Mii costumes without playable characters, I'm no longer shilling for Bethesda to get a playable character. That month long slog is over and, honestly, I kind of dodged a bullet. Imagine if I had been right? I would have been immortalized in the Smash fanbase for a character I care less about than a wet boot full of chicken ****, not to mention all the "is Fatman really Todd Howard" posts it would have created.
So is the only reason you think **** dastardly is next is because one of your contacts said there would be a bonus character originally and he would fit the bill.
 

OptimisticStrifer

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I'm glad 5's finally over. As soon as my theory about it being Lloyd was squashed back in November, I've just kind of been glassy eyed. Don't care about Nightmare, Sol, and Dragonborn and speculating about characters you genuinely have no attachment to sucks. For obvious reasons, these past two months have been the least fun I've had as an active Smash speculator. Good thing I'm already on meds because this ****'s depressing. On the upside, big fan favorites are likely coming from this point forward and I never have to talk about Skyrim ever again! Weird how life works out.
Are you a doomguy believer now? Please testify, fatman!!
 

RuffyYoshi

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I honestly think I'm gonna tap out once we see the first fighter from Pass 2. I'm exhausted coming up with theories, doing campaigns and gathering info only to get kicked in the balls repeatedly then people screaming HOES MAD in my face and seeing them be actually happy that I'm miserable like a bunch of psychos. This isn't healthy for me.

Nintendo jokes about their own **** but keep doing it anyway, so my confidence is low in them actually going for fan demand. Banjo was the only one out of the whole pass. I'll get the second pass cuz I want every character regardless but **** it.

I'll hope for Geno and Crash. I gave up on Shantae.
 

Lord Woomy

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While I don't think it would've helped much if it were better, Byleth's reveal trailer just felt boring to watch too. It was just constantly listening to that one girl yammering about something underwhelming "He has a female alt and uses other weapons. Wooooo?". The other trailers felt fun, Joker's was fun due to the surprise of it being a Smash reveal at all, Hero's was a cool cinematic WoL battle, Banjo's was a fun continuation of K Rool's, and even Terry's was charming with all the characters trying to grab the invitation. Byleths just felt like it dragged and was paced very slowly.
 

T2by4

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Didn't gameplain make videos a few weeks before todays direct saying how they think first party is possible.

I think the mii costume/assist trophy thing may actually happen. They have to know something is coming.
 
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While I don't think it would've helped much if it were better, Byleth's reveal trailer just felt boring to watch too. It was just constantly listening to that one girl yammering about something underwhelming "He has a female alt and uses other weapons. Wooooo?". The other trailers felt fun, Joker's was fun due to the surprise of it being a Smash reveal at all, Hero's was a cool cinematic WoL battle, Banjo's was a fun continuation of K Rool's, and even Terry's was charming with all the characters trying to grab the invitation. Byleths just felt like it dragged and was paced very slowly.
Yeah, it was way too slow.

One thing that confused me was what the hell happened with Altair? Why didn’t it say Assassin’s Creed?
 

Mastadoom88

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I've understood your speculation so far Fatmanonice Fatmanonice , but doesnt Long Tall Sally getting in before Geno worry you? Two Mario reps is one thing, particulalry with one being 3rd party, but two in a row? It concerns me.

The AT and Spirit promo thing makes sense, particularly together. I'd be more confident in my own speculation if they were revealed together. Sort of Sakurai's biggest middle finger to two annoying fan rules in one fell swoop.
 

castinets98

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Hi Geno Thread, I hope you all enjoyed the FP5 reveal festivities. While I think a lot of people have Fire Emblem (Enblem) fatigue, the winking trailer and Sakurai's presentation were pretty infectious. (Mr.) Sakurai clearly has a lot of love for Intelligent Systems and Fire Emblem and I think passionate Geno fans know how much more fun that makes supporting (and in Sora and Namco's case, developing) newcomers. Maybe people would have preferred that Corrin not be rectified by a better and more representative character, but if you can accept Sakurai's desire not to let a bad decision get in the way of a future good decision, then I feel like Byleth is a success.

Obviously, not very many people knew anything about Byleth being in the game until crunch time (the last week or so). This presentation was not foreseen because of the seemingly imminent Nintendo Direct. Ultimately, there clearly was a fighter attached to the rumored Three Houses stage and this detail did not reach all chains of information in equal time. We could go on and on about who is vindicated and hurt by this outcome for 5, but, honestly, I don't care either way. The speculator who is totally beholden to their intel wire lets other useful skills lapse. And the best piece of pure spec from 2019, the Mii Costume Theory, was not only left unscathed but may be the only truly egalitarian source we have for making predictions about the Fighter Pass Vol, 2 ERA - (January 29, 2020 - December 31st 2021).

Since this is the Geno Thread, let's start with Our Boy. Yep, he survived the Smash 4 costume purge. And now that the deck is reshuffled on base game spirits (as far as we know), his path toward inclusion is back on track. However, it is worth bearing in mind that Chocobo has also been saved for later. The more honest deduction from Chocobo and Geno's absence is that we will get a Square Representative of some kind in Vol 2. I think we would be remiss to forget the 7 Squares list. Geno is held over from that list, but so are Sephiroth and Crono (Sora was also on the list but, so I don't get chastised, I won't be referring to him as a Square rep.) Another character that I think has to be kept in consideration is 2B. She simply fits the bill of a character Sakurai likes to add to Smash. She is from a recent and critically acclaimed game with staying power and she has a clear path to a classically Smash moveset. One way or another, Geno will return with Square content, what remains to be seen is whether he will headline or open.

What stands out as much to me as Geno's absence is the presence of the remaining Megaman costumes from 4. Some had been speculating 5 would be a good place for Rathalos and the Hunter. And honestly, they were right I'd say: Monster Hunter fits in with the swords and sorcery aesthetic far more than Megaman.exe. I mentioned how the inevitable holdover of some Capcom costumes into the second pass hinted that we'd get another Capcom character and I said that the likely deconfirmation of Resident Evil by DLC spirits and the upcoming full deconfirmation of the Hunter via Mii Costume pack-ins had me thinking Dante is the biggest IP left for Capcom. But with the Hunter and Rathalos still in play, I think we have to be aware that the Monster Hunter series really might be too big not to get a character.

An alternate but less predicted outcome for 5 was the presence of some of the remaining Namco costumes alongside 5. Clearly, that didn't happen and Lloyd and Heihachi (and yes, sure, you too Gil) remain in play and at a standstill. You may already know my feelings about who I see as being more possible between these two, but I'll put it this way: if you don't think Sakurai is partial to jrpg characters, how do you explain the pass including not 1, not 2, but 3 of them?

I also think that we ought to keep Chosen Undead in the discussion, for some of the same reasons I think 2B could catch Sakurai's eye: he's from a game that's considered one of the best of the decade, he has a smash friendly moveset (tbh he would borrow a lot from Byleth's style of play. Actually Geno might borrow from Byleth a tad too, but let's save that for later). He is also a second party Namco character just like 2B is a 2nd party square character. This may seem like a petty detail, but Joker, Banjo, Byleth and Hero all had elements of Sakurai's HAL roots and Sora present: a little company embedded within a larger one.

In short, we seem to be set up for a pass with Square, Namco and Capcom getting new characters. Monster Hunter, Lloyd and Geno seem to be the best bets, but I caution restraint: Sakurai does seem to value the new: Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5 and Fire Emblem 3 Houses are all less than 5 years old and though of course they all signify something beyond themselves, they certainly are not as far removed from new games as Geno and Lloyd have been.

P.S. The Cuphead costume is a real shocker, it must have been an immediate response to Sans's blockbuster costume and the Switch port's excellent sales. Clearly, Microsoft and Nintendo aren't just connecting on Banjo things, though Master Chief, Steve and Cuphead are all different beasts, making it hard to see the future of this special relationship clearly.
 

DarkShadow20

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I have to work tomorrow during the presentation but I’m just expecting it will be some anime character I don’t care about anyway. More so looking forward to finding out about post pass characters.
Hey I was right. I like FE but Jesus Christ. It now makes up like 10% of the roster, tied with Mario and FE is definitely not on the same level. And it's another boring blue haired character to boot. At least they have finally incorporated the weapon triangle and bows into a FE moveset, I'll give them that one. I really wish they would have had the Black Knight instead of Chrom in the base game though, just for more varied representation. Half are blue haired lords and half share the same or almost the same moveset.

Glad Geno survived yet again but I fear we may have to wait until E3 for his reveal now which is going to be torture. Also glad to see that the Power of two theory is still holding up.

As for this first fighter's pass as a whole, I've only played two of the 5 series represented being Banjo Kazooie and Fire Emblem, and the only character I was really excited for was Banjo. Terry and Hero are fine picks though and fun to play. Joker was the worst addition to me. It was a decent group I suppose, and Banjo alone made it worth it imo.

Here's hoping for at least one or two characters out of these for FP2:

Geno
Crash
Hayabusa
Doom slayer
Waluigi
 

Nopote

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I honestly think I'm gonna tap out once we see the first fighter from Pass 2. I'm exhausted coming up with theories, doing campaigns and gathering info only to get kicked in the balls repeatedly then people screaming HOES MAD in my face and seeing them be actually happy that I'm miserable like a bunch of psychos. This isn't healthy for me.

Nintendo jokes about their own **** but keep doing it anyway, so my confidence is low in them actually going for fan demand. Banjo was the only one out of the whole pass. I'll get the second pass cuz I want every character regardless but **** it.

I'll hope for Geno and Crash. I gave up on Shantae.
The main reason people initially started up HOES MAD is because of others ****ting of the characters they wanted in the first place, so it's really all a vicious cycle, even ignoring the fan requests that got into the base game.
 
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