Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

[Fatmanonice]

Whats the chance Sakurai puts doom guy in as just a costume even with all the fan demand? I know sans was just a mii costume but hes also an indie character which smash seems to not want to put in right now for some reason.

I mean... Look at assist trophies. Like half those guys are characters with sizeable fanbases. Same premise. It's not that Sakurai doesn't care but they can't accommodate everyone.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

I have been given full permission by Fatman in private to share this piece of info publicly.

Awhile back, I was told in private a list of characters that were hard deconfirmed for Ultimate. From the words of it, a list of characters that were “pitched to Sakurai, but shot down immediately.”

And low and behold, Cuphead was on that list. That perfectly explains the Mii Costume revealed today.

I know I was critical of Fatman today, but he was right on the money with that one. Definitely a point for his credibility, coming from someone who has disagreed with him a ton.

That is all I will say, I was told to keep the rest of the names private.

Then I fear for the worst with regards with Shantae, then. A hanging guilotine of which nothing come back from its heavy blade.
Eh, in all fairness, I should have made some other choices with regards to whom I'd be supporting.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

So, it's really obvious that they did this because despite all the odds, the final character was a Nintendo character and there were no plans to have new Nintendo costumes added. I think having Bethesda costumes despite having no full character would mean we're getting another first party character, if Mallowdemon is real, which just given the amount of time that's passed, and


I'm starting to doubt the legitimacy of the Mallowdemon leak entirely.

Of course, naturally, this does really turn costume speculation on its head. If any of this mii business has been real at all, it's turned into a curse.

Cacomallow is almost certainly dead. It's only real chance is if we do get a fighter sooner rather than later dropped with Mii costumes. The longer it goes between its appearance and a "reveal," the less likely it is to be real (and that wasn't great to begin with when people proved you could make working mods with jiggle physics).

 

[SSGuy]

If I have to find a silver lining, Fire Emblem showing up in the fighter's pass give a green light for a Mario character to show up in the fighter's pass. It wasn't exclusively third party characters and I don't think that will be the case moving forward.

Imagine how crazy it would be for Waluigi to be DLC #11

 

[MisterMike]

Cacomallow is almost certainly dead. It's only real chance is if we do get a fighter sooner rather than later dropped with Mii costumes. The longer it goes between its appearance and a "reveal," the less likely it is to be real (and that wasn't great to begin with when people proved you could make working mods with jiggle physics).

The Ken Leak was posted 4 months before Ken was revealed, this has been out for two. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it just yet.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If I have to find a silver lining, Fire Emblem showing up in the fighter's pass give a green light for a Mario character to show up in the fighter's pass. It wasn't exclusively third party characters and I don't think that will be the case moving forward.

Imagine how crazy it would be for Waluigi to be DLC #11

I think Byleth did more to hurt first parties than "save them" or whatever since it proves the point that Sakurai actively passed on a ton of them coming into the Fighter's Pass, most notably Rex/Pyra and anyone from ARMS. They absolutely could have made it in, but he chose against it. And it also means more "clone" type first parties are de-emphasized because Sakurai went out of his way to say that being unique was really important.

 

[SSGuy]

I think Byleth did more to hurt first parties than "save them" or whatever since it proves the point that Sakurai actively passed on a ton of them coming into the Fighter's Pass, most notably Rex/Pyra and anyone from ARMS. They absolutely could have made it in, but he chose against it. And it also means more "clone" type first parties are de-emphasized because Sakurai went out of his way to say that being unique was really important.

No, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to be a 3rd party Mario character in this instance.

 

[Dynamic Worlok]

As much as people hype up the success of fire emblem, the simple fact is there's only so much overlap between smash fans and fire emblem fans. Corrin left a sour taste in many a smash fan's mouth that will be difficult to wash away (I guarantee you if not for corrin, byleth would not be anywhere near as poorly received as he is now) adding yet another FE rep was a poor call, especially when you're trying to inspire confidence in your second mystery bundle that you want to sell. The next reveal is going to be very critical, and ideally should happen sooner rather than later.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

The Ken Leak was posted 4 months before Ken was revealed, this has been out for two. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it just yet.

We're not getting another character release until March at the absolute earliest and that's incredibly wishful thinking at that when it might not be until E3 we start hearing about how Volume 2 is going to work.

That was also base game where things had to be made beforehand, and now we're talking 2-3 characters' Mii costumes in the future at best case scenario. A big point of it was that it showed "Bethesda and Geno" as coming soon. Fire Emblem tears that to pieces and casts even more doubt on it.

 

[Nopote]

I... I... I hate the distinct possibility that this could be and probably is the situation... Oh my God...

View attachment 258116

Just because we've never gotten a Mii costume from a major company without a playable character until today (Ubisoft), doesn't mean it was never going to happen... Paraleak 2: Electric Boogaloo... If Bethesda is in a future Mii costume pack as Cacodemon and Doom Guy/Dragonborn, I'm just going to throw myself off a building... Holy ****... I'm going to go lay down...

They did have a spirit in the base game.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I dunno. Logic with Mii costumes kind of got ****ed in the ass today given Byleth's Mii costume spread somehow makes even less sense than Banjo's. There have been consistent patterns but today's events imply that more packs will have **** all when it comes to central theming. 6's rumored Mii costume pack was another mishmash and one of them was outright deconfirmed today because male and female Byleth are actually playable not Mii costumes.

 

[Firox]

Hey guys! I found a leak for the next fighters pass!

Spoiler: HOT LEAKY LEAKS

 

[Nopote]

I dunno. Logic with Mii costumes kind of got ****ed in the ass today given Byleth's Mii costume spread somehow makes even less sense than Banjo's. There have been consistent patterns but today's events imply that more packs will have **** all when it comes to central theming. 6's rumored Mii costume pack was another mishmash and one of them was outright deconfirmed today because male and female Byleth are actually playable not Mii costumes.

Ture, but I never really put much stock into following patterns or logic in Smash speculation anyway; it's a quick path to getting blown away.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

Ay caramba... I gotta head offline. I'm starting to get a headache over this "Sakurai Shot-down" list, and the possibility my No. 1 choice is on the list is giving me some internal sadness and, well, a headache.

I may or may not be on here more often, but good grief. I'll see you all later regardless, hopefully by the latest around March or June.

Or maybe just a few hours when I get a drink of water and rehydrate myself. Really, I'm just being dramatic for the sake of being dramatic. Heheh.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I mean... Look at assist trophies. Like half those guys are characters with sizeable fanbases. Same premise. It's not that Sakurai doesn't care but they can't accommodate everyone.

I feel this is a little less likely, Bethesda would probably want to play up their partnership with a fighter. As ****ty as it is, ubisoft has always sort of been Nintendo's third wheel and it doesn't surprise me that they just go mii costumes. I dunno if this makes sense.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno. Logic with Mii costumes kind of got ****ed in the ass today given Byleth's Mii costume spread somehow makes even less sense than Banjo's. There have been consistent patterns but today's events imply that more packs will have **** all when it comes to central theming. 6's rumored Mii costume pack was another mishmash and one of them was outright deconfirmed today because male and female Byleth are actually playable not Mii costumes.

If you can believe it, I think there was still a little logic to the Mii costumes. God only knows how long they've been holding onto the rights from Ubisoft for the Rabbids and Assassin's Creed costumes, but they obviously knew they had a great opportunity to show off Altair in a marketplace setting, which for me feels super iconic of AC (I haven't played it, but it seems like every time it comes up, Altair's in town stabbing soldiers and passers by). Ignoring "just a hat", which happens sometimes, we got nothing else but Gunners, continuing the joke that we have way the **** too many swordsmen.

And still Geno didn't return. Even when there was yet another bonus Mii costume, we avoided it. And I called that this pack was gonna have X and EXE so I'm totally a leaker and I should open a patreon.

 

[Spatulo]

I feel this is a little less likely, Bethesda would probably want to play up their partnership with a fighter. As ****ty as it is, ubisoft has always sort of been Nintendo's third wheel and it doesn't surprise me that they just go mii costumes. I dunno if this makes sense.

It’s weird

like it’s really weird

like it’s REALLY weird

That there’s no Rayman costume.

Maybe it means nothing. But I’m thinking no, it means something.

 

[Firox]

At first, I couldn't figure out why Sakurai was showing us hand signs with the Byleth reveal. NOW I get what he was trying to say......

Spoiler

 

[RuffyYoshi]

Hey guys! I found a leak for the next fighters pass!

Spoiler: HOT LEAKY LEAKS

View attachment 258120

You know what's worse, we have like THREE (or four) Fire Emlem Assist Trophies next to 8 fighters. I personally feel less inclined to play any of them cuz of them soving down our throats like this.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

You know I appreciate Sakurai putting work into Byleth and honoring a game as great as Three Houses playable content, but.....if he had him/her planned from the start? He really should have at least had them before Terry. Sure, Terry is a more obscure iconic character, but he'd still have been a stronger finisher.

 

[Fatmanonice]

They did have a spirit in the base game.

While this is true, it doesn't change what I said: this is the first time a major company has gotten a Mii costume before a playable character. I feel like that's a big deal and a big OOF for future Ubisoft prospects.

So, on the topic of Mii costumes, the following pairs are still MIA:

-Lloyd and Gil
-Geno and Chocobo
-Monster Hunter and Rathalos
-Heihachi and his accompanying mariachi band

If my theory about the next three characters being prrrrrrromotions are true, these all returning in that timeframe would actually make a lot of sense... If Megaman characters can be stuck onto Fire Emblem, don't see why Monster Hunter couldn't just be stuck on randomly too.

 

[RuffyYoshi]

It’s weird

like it’s really weird

like it’s REALLY weird

That there’s no Rayman costume.

Maybe it means nothing. But I’m thinking no, it means something.

I feel bad for Rayman fans. He's a spirit, and Rabbids are closer to being fighters than he is.

 

[Lord Woomy]

Ugh, everything right now is giving me the same feeling I had after the November 2018 direct. Just pure disappointment and a complete destruction of faith in Sakurai and Nintendo's ability to listen to fans. At least this time, we didn't get the blow of seeing something that soft deconfirmed Geno (like his spirit last time). This time is never a fun time for Smash speculation and I agree that the next character will be critical when it comes to how the second fighter pass is received.

 

[Franco Geno]

While this is true, it doesn't change what I said: this is the first time a major company has gotten a Mii costume before a playable character. I feel like that's a big deal and a big OOF for future Ubisoft prospects.

So, on the topic of Mii costumes, the following pairs are still MIA:

-Lloyd and Gil
-Geno and Chocobo
-Monster Hunter and Rathalos
-Heihachi and his accompanying mariachi band

If my theory about the next three characters being prrrrrrromotions are true, these all returning in that timeframe would actually make a lot of sense... If Megaman characters can be stuck onto Fire Emblem, don't see why Monster Hunter couldn't just be stuck on randomly too.

I really hope your theory ends up being correct, getting that promotions line up would be perfect

 

[Nopote]

Ugh, everything right now is giving me the same feeling I had after the November 2018 direct. Just pure disappointment and a complete destruction of faith in Sakurai and Nintendo's ability to listen to fans. At least this time, we didn't get the blow of seeing something that soft deconfirmed Geno (like his spirit last time). This time is never a fun time for Smash speculation and I agree that the next character will be critical when it comes to how the second fighter pass is received.

Time is a circle.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

It’s weird

like it’s really weird

like it’s REALLY weird

That there’s no Rayman costume.

Maybe it means nothing. But I’m thinking no, it means something.

He's a Spirit in base game. They've already largely shot him down. Twice.

 

[Inawordyes]

So, you know what I just realized? Nintendo technically dun goofed with the FP5 trademarks page as well like I had speculated a week or two ago - FP4 said SNK, FP5 had nobody that wasn't already repped in the basegame, meaning it had to be someone double-dipping, or a Nintendo 1st-party character - which is what it ended up being.

I also find the idea that Fatman was correct on it being a fantasy swordsman but having them come with the two Mega Man gunner costumes instead of the fantasy swordsman Monster Hunter costumes to be really hilarious.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I really hope your theory ends up being correct, getting that promotions line up would be perfect

I think he wasn't saying that MH and Heihachi are being upgraded, I may be mistaking though.

 

[Spatulo]

He's a Spirit in base game. They've already largely shot him down. Twice.

... You didn’t seriously just play the “spirits deconfirm” card did you?

 

[Deleted member]

... You didn’t seriously just play the “spirits deconfirm” card did you?

Every time someone does this, Sakurai adds a Fire Emblem character to Smash.

Please stop.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

... You didn’t seriously just play the “spirits deconfirm” card did you?

I played the Smash 4 didn't try for him when he was in the midst of his revival and then he got Spirit'd again in Smash Ultimate and not picked for the Fighter's Pass and he only becomes less likely the further removed from Legends we get.

Let's face it, the Rabbids were a bigger presence to get a Mii costume thank Mario + Rabbids than Rayman has been in recent years. He's in one of the worst spots imaginable of any characters not named Rex.

 

[egaddmario]

I totally agree. Who in their right mind would try to sell a DLC pack without at least dropping the first character to inspire confidence or build hype, especially since we have a lot of reason to believe that fighter number 6 is pretty far along? Couple this with the absurdly long release window, and it's just downright stupid. I don't get Nintendo's marketing strategy at all.

Because people will buy it regardless. Some people, myself included, want all the characters regardless of who they are. I'll be buying eshop money tomorrow for the 2nd pass when I go pick up my Dark Samus and Richter amiibo. Yes, I own all the smash amiibo so far. And yes, i'll be buying all the future ones. I just really like smash.

 

[Penguinbowler]

My opinion on Spirits is that, while I don't think they deconfirm, I do think we need to take them into consideration with potential characters and makes them less likely.

Still until we get an official comment the only ways a fighter i feel has no chance to get in is if they're an assist trophy or pokeball.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

ugh i just realized how much longer we're gonna have to wait for geno, or even the next fighter.

ahhhhhhhhhh

 

[owjies]

As much as people hype up the success of fire emblem, the simple fact is there's only so much overlap between smash fans and fire emblem fans. Corrin left a sour taste in many a smash fan's mouth that will be difficult to wash away (I guarantee you if not for corrin, byleth would not be anywhere near as poorly received as he is now) adding yet another FE rep was a poor call, especially when you're trying to inspire confidence in your second mystery bundle that you want to sell. The next reveal is going to be very critical, and ideally should happen sooner rather than later.

Yeah I agree. As both a Smash Bros and FE fan, my main issue with Corrin was that he was chosen as a Smash Bros character before the game was even released. Robin/Lucina made sense in Smash 4 because Awakening saved the franchise and was an excellent game with interesting characters. I feel like Nintendo assumed everyone would feel the same way with Fates, and the games were just okay. They jumped the shark with Corrin in my opinion and, as you say, it's souring everyone on Byleth even though Sakurai did a great job representing 3H in Smash.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yet another revision because, **** it...

2020 releases: the Child Catcher, Geno, Lloyd

2021 releases: Dante, Crash, Master Chief

Solid lineup, honestly.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Yet another revision because, **** it...

2020 releases: the Child Catcher, Geno, Lloyd

2021 releases: Dante, Crash, Master Chief

Solid lineup, honestly.

and then fighters pass three: sora takes Manhattan

 

[Deleted member]

It's funny how "2021 年内までに順次配信" translates to "delivery by 2021" but the kanji it uses literally says "the end of the year".

I guess we might as well assume it'll take two years, what with our disappointment being at all time highs.

 

[ForsakenM]

So I was working on another meme line-up for how I reacted to the Smash Reveal as it was another character I didn't really care about and I did that for Hero...but honestly I don't care enough and I wish to not join the salt in here anymore that I've already experienced it today. So, in short, here is what I have to say about all of this:

I got EVERYTHING ready to record my reaction and went to bed with enough time to wake to my alarms and I slept through ALL THREE OF THEM! Needless to say, I woke up at around 8:30 my time and I was ****ing pissed, but the day only got worse.

I proceeded to click Sakurai's video link thinking (because I just woke up) that it was the video that was uploaded and not the livestream, which then shoved me into his livestream mid-sentence and I saw Byleth behind him. Despite closing it ASAP and never playing Three Houses...I knew what I saw. I convinced myself that maybe it was a second reveal or something or maybe I didn't see it clearly. So, I got some cereal and waited until it was over so a friend could link me to the video without getting spoiled by stupid YouTubers...but IT WAS NO LONGER A MYSTERY!

So, **** me and my attempts to record my reaction, but I feel like it turned out for the best because not only was I already upset with everything getting thrown off schedule but then Byleth was actually real and frankly, I was pretty emotionally dead through the entire thing minus a few good moments.

Sakurai trying to quickly put up the poster and smiling was one. Killing off the other DLC characters was another.

So, what do I think about Byleth? Well, despite how I encouraged everyone last night not to be salty about the character, I was rather disillusioned with Sakurai's pick at first...but after giving time to think and being a human being that likes to analyze things, I think Byleth is the best thing that could have come from Fire Emblem and may be the best thing Smash has gotten from Fire Emblem in a while. The character is unique enough (though I still seem them as multiple characters we already have in the game having their moves taken and augmented EVER so slightly, but even so the uniqueness is there) and the music and stage are amazing as usual.

I do think it's sad that twice in a row now a Mii Costume with a music track has out shined the character reveal. Also, at first it REALLY seemed like Sakurai was magically tone-deaf to the situation considering he's addressed the issue of too many swordwielders in Smash before as well as lots of Fire Emblem, but I think he REALLY wanted a Three Houses rep and did his best to make them break the norm to impress us...and when you consider that this whole pass is basically 'Sakurai's Greatest Picks' this only makes sense: This pass was less about the fans and more about what Sakurai wanted and in most of these cases, Sakurai's interests matched up with ours, falling short with Terry and Byleth.

Also, all of you who are saying Sakurai is full of **** and bias because of Rex and Pyra, I need you to all sit the **** down and shut the **** up real quick, because you are letting YOUR bias cloud your judgement. There is a clear difference between making a full game with no DLC planned yet and saying 'We can't get this character in because of when they released' and getting to play an early copy of a game when you are working on only DLC and have a lot more time on your hands. Sure, Sakurai's bias has a play in this, but I doubt it's all like you guys are crying about and saying Sakurai is full of ****.

Speaking of when Three Houses released...that game came out in July. According to my theory, Volume 2 was already negotiated for earlier in the year or very late in December (thought I really think January, but I digress)...and Sakurai mentioned he got an early copy, which means he played it earlier in the year than everyone else...apparently, just early enough to have Byleth make it to FP5...but what if Byleth was actually a character that got negotiated for the Second Pass? What if originally Byleth was going to be in Volume 2 and Sakurai worked out the negotiations shortly after playing the game early but something happened and then Byleth was moved to FP5 and they had to haul ass to finish the character? I have no idea what would have caused that to happen, but it's apparently canon that Joker wasn't going to be the first reveal but was changed last minute enough that we got an animated trailer instead of gameplay as he wasn't ready yet.

Perhaps a fighter wasn't going to be ready on time? Maybe negotiations fell through at the last moment or the company somehow reneged and Sakurai had to make quick work to make changes? Maybe there was a leak that got out and to counter it they swapped characters? Byleth just seems so ungodly out of place in that line up that it REALLY feels like something happened. Then again, wasn't Three Houses delayed or something? This could mean that maybe Sakurai got an early copy of the game MUCH earlier than we think and Byleth was planned from the get-go.

Eh, idk anymore guys. Not only was this mostly a let down for me, but it's sucked my soul out of the speculation game. Sure, we have six more fighters coming and that's super cool...but I have no drive to speculate about them. I don't care what Fatman or Sabi or Vergeben or Leakypanda or anyone who claims to have insider information has to say because it never ceases to be super vague (outside of Fatman's theories, which are completely fine btw) and EVEN THEN fail to mean anything at all and are still wrong.

I don't currently have what it takes to think about who could be next and I'm tired of waiting for so long just for things like Byleth to happen and completely undermine everything we know in the worst way possible. On top of all this, having random Ubisoft costumes destroys my confidence in Geno being playable down the line. At first I had the small fear that he could come along Sora's reveal, but now he could just be revealed with any ****ing character under the sun? He could be revealed with new SMRPG costumes tied to ANY CHARACTER? THE ONLY RULE IS TWO RETURNING MII COSTUMES PER PACK?!

I'd rather not torture myself. I think I'm going to take an extended leave and actually make something out of my life. Maybe then when I've got my **** together Sakurai can bless me with the character I want.

 

[pinshadow]

Something I'd like to really touch on is the Mii Costumes being...weird, more specfically the Mega Man costumes. Obviously this feels like a grab bag, two random Ubisoft characters (which I think kills any chance of them, so rip Rayman) and Cuphead, with the remaining two Mega Man being returning. I guess the big question is ask here is why them? Think about it, both the two monster hunter skins and Lloyd with Gil make more sense and better fit with the Fire Emblem characters. I think the question to ask here is, if they aern't coming with Byleth, who ARE they coming with? I know people will argue they could just come in another grab bag, but I feel like Banjo (due to Microsoft maybe just not negotiating costumes) and Byleth (due to all the Nintendo related costumes being base game) are exceptions rather than the rule, and atleast one character is going to be related to some of these costumes, and I'd make a hard bet at this point that it's something Namco.