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Geno (♥♪!?): Return of the Starsend Savior

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Kuroda Kyousuke

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Thank you! I poured my heart into that video, and although I have never really posted on here, I wanted you guys to know that there are Geno fans all over the place!

His reveal is going to be beyond epic, and I can't wait to celebrate with all of you! :D

This is an amazing analysis dude! :D
Hearing all of these Geno stories always makes me want him even more!
 

Klimax

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I don't know why....

Despite having evidence that Geno is still a possibility and that I like this character to be in, I have gut feeling that he may have a chance as an AT.

Don't know why, but that was a feeling I am having right now...
Nah, no chance, in my opinion, he's that kind of character who's either a playable character or not in the game at all (just like Dixie Kong, Bandana Waddle Dee, Isaac). If one of these characters ends up as an AT, the backlash would be insane because it wouldn't make any sense (Waluigi is not a counter example since he wasn't that popular at the end of 2015).
 
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FalconFire93

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Havent been here too much in the last weeks , but I still want geno in :)
And yes, he'd get along with Rosalina for sure. She'd praise him for his starry service with SE, and then say it's time to come back (and then bam Nintendo has the copyrights back).. well, indulge me XD
Geno being in Smash and Nintendo getting the full rights for Geno? That would just be icing on the cake. :grin:
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Here's another artwork between the two.


At this rate. I know what's going to become the next Smash shipping and it connects pretty well. ;)
 

EricTheGamerman

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Regarding my earlier comments, I haven't necessarily lost hope for Geno or let go of the dream. I mean, I'm not convinced we have more than two...maybe, just maybe three characters left to reveal (Unique) at this point, and overall I don't have high expectations for what's left so as to temper my hype levels, but I think Geno has a serious shot.

In no way did I mean to discredit all things going for Geno at this point. He is is absolutely the best place possible for a character like him with the acknowledgement through the Mii costume, Sakurai's positive comments on Geno, Vergeben's Square character and other leaks, and the fact that this game has been focusing on several fan requested newcomers. I can't discredit any of that and don't intend to.

My point was more, consider a possibility where Geno's special treatment as a Mii costume is actually more of a negative towards him being playable. That's an idea I've rarely ever seen thrown around as so many people seem to have assumed that those things could only be good for him. I just wanted to acknowledge the potential for that to be the best Geno could get in the event Sakurai can't justify him as playable. That's a lot more than I think many of us expected last game. Obviously representing Cloud and Final Fantasy was of higher priority to Sakurai to start off with, but maybe, just maybe the costume isn't quite part of the narrative we think it is.

I'm waiting to be very wrong, and see Geno take the upgrade as King K Rool, Inkling, Isabelle, and Crom before him. And I think it would be foolish not to include him when you have every piece in place like he already has, but let's hold on to that hype just a little bit. King K. Rool's overall inclusion in this game is the best possible scenario for Geno at this point as he is the only other fan requested, irrelevant character to get such a treatment. So I sincerely hope that I'm wrong with this little consideration.
 

EarlTamm

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That's an awesome find. It makes me way happier than it should.
And it's like 2 days old as well! I think all of us have seen the same Geno art circulating around for a long time, so it is always great to see new art of such high quality, especially when it relates to recent discussion.
 

PhilosophicAnimal

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Y'know, it kinda bums me out to think that the Mario development staff probably doesn't even think about these kinds of connections, like Rosalina and Geno...I mean, their comments about Toad and other lore I've heard from them are usually like "Oh yeah, well...it could totally be like that!", rather than them actually geeking out about their own work like we do.

Miyamoto especially seems to foster this kind of attitude, what with how he put down Rosa's backstory when they actually tried to create some lore for once. It's nothing like HAL, who you can tell delights in sneaking every bit of hidden continuity into Kirby that they can; you can see it in their Miiverse posts and Switch articles. It sucks, because the Geno/Rosa connection is one that just makes so much sense, without having to say why.

That said, I will be thrilled if they actually do put the two together in Smash. :) Come on, you can do it, Nintendo!
 

EarlTamm

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Y'know, it kinda bums me out to think that the Mario development staff probably doesn't even think about these kinds of connections, like Rosalina and Geno...I mean, their comments about Toad and other lore I've heard from them are usually like "Oh yeah, well...it could totally be like that!", rather than them actually geeking out about their own work like we do.

Miyamoto especially seems to foster this kind of attitude, what with how he put down Rosa's backstory when they actually tried to create some lore for once. It's nothing like HAL, who you can tell delights in sneaking every bit of hidden continuity into Kirby that they can; you can see it in their Miiverse posts and Switch articles. It sucks, because the Geno/Rosa connection is one that just makes so much sense, without having to say why.

That said, I will be thrilled if they actually do put the two together in Smash. :) Come on, you can do it, Nintendo!
I do think that Nintendo employee's are more than willing to do stuff like that(Kirby is an obvious example, but other properties like Splatoon show it's more than just Kirby doing it), it's just that there is one problem. Miyamoto. Now, I think we can all say that Miyamoto's philosophy has it's place and value, as it is the value that brought us many great games. But it's clear that Miyamoto has gotten to stubborn with it, and that has led to less then stellar games in recent years. There was once a time where he was seen as a a developer god who could do no wrong, but now... Well, we still love the guy and appreciate all he has done, but there is gonna be times now whee he is gonna have to step back. Heck, Nintendo's new president pretty much introduced himself by saying that the older figures of the company like Miyamotto would not have as much overbearing control over the teams.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Y'know, it kinda bums me out to think that the Mario development staff probably doesn't even think about these kinds of connections, like Rosalina and Geno...I mean, their comments about Toad and other lore I've heard from them are usually like "Oh yeah, well...it could totally be like that!", rather than them actually geeking out about their own work like we do.

Miyamoto especially seems to foster this kind of attitude, what with how he put down Rosa's backstory when they actually tried to create some lore for once. It's nothing like HAL, who you can tell delights in sneaking every bit of hidden continuity into Kirby that they can; you can see it in their Miiverse posts and Switch articles. It sucks, because the Geno/Rosa connection is one that just makes so much sense, without having to say why.

That said, I will be thrilled if they actually do put the two together in Smash. :) Come on, you can do it, Nintendo!
Yeah, Miyamoto has done a bang up job at crippling any attempt at development Mario games have made in recent years. It's like he is incapable of visualizing a world where people like more complex Mario characters and stories. We lost Paper Mario and Rosalina to his requests that these sorts of things change to fit the vision he sees. Those are some pretty universally loved pieces of Mario that have been shot down by the man himself, for not terribly compelling reasons other than his own sense of Mario being gameplay oriented. It'd be one thing if those entries were universally hated, but that's far from the truth.

Which is a bit indicative of Nintendo being a little too focused on what it finds right as opposed to trying new things and letting fans play a more active role in shaping the landscape. Star Fox Zero got destroyed thanks to the absolute reliance on motion controls. Splatoon is forced into all sorts of situation because Nintendo won't allow this or that, and want you to play their absurd rotations, even going as far as to limit one of the main modes you can play (Salmon Run) by day. F-Zero can't be a priority because of Miyamoto demanding there be something new. Nintendo Switch online and Nintendo's online speak for themselves. Just yeah. Odyssey and Breath of the Wild were nice changes of pace, and Sakurai overall has been much, much better about listening to the fans with Smash. But I just wish Nintendo maybe would deal with things a little differently.
 

EarlTamm

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Odyssey and Breath of the Wild were nice changes of pace, and Sakurai overall has been much, much better about listening to the fans with Smash.
I find Sakurai intresting as a developer, and how he has gone about Ultimate specifically. I agree with a lot of points in this video, so give it a watch.
 

ShroomEL

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I remember when Ridley and K. Rool were impossible.
Everyone wanted them so badly, despite their constant rejections. But Sakurai pulled through and made them possible. Just shows how dedicated the man truly is to making Smash Ultimate the ULTIMATE Smash.
 
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PhilosophicAnimal

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I do think that Nintendo employee's are more than willing to do stuff like that(Kirby is an obvious example, but other properties like Splatoon show it's more than just Kirby doing it), it's just that there is one problem. Miyamoto. Now, I think we can all say that Miyamoto's philosophy has it's place and value, as it is the value that brought us many great games. But it's clear that Miyamoto has gotten to stubborn with it, and that has led to less then stellar games in recent years. There was once a time where he was seen as a a developer god who could do no wrong, but now... Well, we still love the guy and appreciate all he has done, but there is gonna be times now whee he is gonna have to step back. Heck, Nintendo's new president pretty much introduced himself by saying that the older figures of the company like Miyamotto would not have as much overbearing control over the teams.
Yeah, Miyamoto has done a bang up job at crippling any attempt at development Mario games have made in recent years. It's like he is incapable of visualizing a world where people like more complex Mario characters and stories. We lost Paper Mario and Rosalina to his requests that these sorts of things change to fit the vision he sees. Those are some pretty universally loved pieces of Mario that have been shot down by the man himself, for not terribly compelling reasons other than his own sense of Mario being gameplay oriented. It'd be one thing if those entries were universally hated, but that's far from the truth.

Which is a bit indicative of Nintendo being a little too focused on what it finds right as opposed to trying new things and letting fans play a more active role in shaping the landscape. Star Fox Zero got destroyed thanks to the absolute reliance on motion controls. Splatoon is forced into all sorts of situation because Nintendo won't allow this or that, and want you to play their absurd rotations, even going as far as to limit one of the main modes you can play (Salmon Run) by day. F-Zero can't be a priority because of Miyamoto demanding there be something new. Nintendo Switch online and Nintendo's online speak for themselves. Just yeah. Odyssey and Breath of the Wild were nice changes of pace, and Sakurai overall has been much, much better about listening to the fans with Smash. But I just wish Nintendo maybe would deal with things a little differently.
Very good points, guys. I think it really is time for Miyamoto to step back a bit, and let the newer staff start working in the continuity they clearly want to, as evidenced by Splatoon and even ARMS (which, as well pointed out, are filled with lore and are obviously not hated or commercial flops.) Mario Odyssey's world map came SO close to providing real cohesion, and just the thought that Isle Delfino was meant to be on it gets my lore senses tingling. I want it all to connect--I wanna know where all the locales are in relation to each other, where Evershade Valley is, see the SMRPG world worked in...all of it.

It's not unusual, I think, to want everything to be building to something. We have over 30 years of games--it only makes sense to want more meaning out of it.

Regarding my earlier comments, I haven't necessarily lost hope for Geno or let go of the dream. I mean, I'm not convinced we have more than two...maybe, just maybe three characters left to reveal (Unique) at this point, and overall I don't have high expectations for what's left so as to temper my hype levels, but I think Geno has a serious shot.

In no way did I mean to discredit all things going for Geno at this point. He is is absolutely the best place possible for a character like him with the acknowledgement through the Mii costume, Sakurai's positive comments on Geno, Vergeben's Square character and other leaks, and the fact that this game has been focusing on several fan requested newcomers. I can't discredit any of that and don't intend to.

My point was more, consider a possibility where Geno's special treatment as a Mii costume is actually more of a negative towards him being playable. That's an idea I've rarely ever seen thrown around as so many people seem to have assumed that those things could only be good for him. I just wanted to acknowledge the potential for that to be the best Geno could get in the event Sakurai can't justify him as playable. That's a lot more than I think many of us expected last game. Obviously representing Cloud and Final Fantasy was of higher priority to Sakurai to start off with, but maybe, just maybe the costume isn't quite part of the narrative we think it is.

I'm waiting to be very wrong, and see Geno take the upgrade as King K Rool, Inkling, Isabelle, and Crom before him. And I think it would be foolish not to include him when you have every piece in place like he already has, but let's hold on to that hype just a little bit. King K. Rool's overall inclusion in this game is the best possible scenario for Geno at this point as he is the only other fan requested, irrelevant character to get such a treatment. So I sincerely hope that I'm wrong with this little consideration.
Oh, and I missed my chance to say it before, but I actually understand exactly how you feel about the splash screen. I had actually been planning to make a similar post. It's unnerving because it can easily be interpreted as positive or negative in equal measure. I feel the splash screen is a boon about 80% of the time at least, so that's good. If it pops into your head as a positive more often than negative, then we should be all right. It's okay to have a little doubt.
 

Dreamking

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If Geno gets in, do you think it's only fair if Mallow gets an Assist Trophy?
If Mallow were an Assist, I think he'd be one of those characters that could do diffrent things; Thunderbolt on opponents or use HP Rain on the summoner.
 

EarlTamm

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Very good points, guys. I think it really is time for Miyamoto to step back a bit, and let the newer staff start working in the continuity they clearly want to, as evidenced by Splatoon and even ARMS (which, as well pointed out, are filled with lore and are obviously not hated or commercial flops.) Mario Odyssey's world map came SO close to providing real cohesion, and just the thought that Isle Delfino was meant to be on it gets my lore senses tingling. I want it all to connect--I wanna know where all the locales are in relation to each other, where Evershade Valley is, see the SMRPG world worked in...all of it.

It's not unusual, I think, to want everything to be building to something. We have over 30 years of games--it only makes sense to want more meaning out of it.
It's funny, as the person who produced Super Mario Odyssey was the same guy who made Rosalina's storybook. And it's not unlike him to sprinkle in a bunch of stuff like that. I actually did not know much about the guy beyond that, but I just learned he was basically responsible for making the Zelda lore as well as the story for Majora's Mask.
 

PhilosophicAnimal

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It's funny, as the person who produced Super Mario Odyssey was the same guy who made Rosalina's storybook. And it's not unlike him to sprinkle in a bunch of stuff like that. I actually did not know much about the guy beyond that, but I just learned he was basically responsible for making the Zelda lore as well as the story for Majora's Mask.
Ahhh, that explains it, then!

Yes...Yoshiaki Koizumi. I have heard his name a lot recently. Apparently he is Miyamoto's protege, but I do feel he brings something different to the table. Incidentally, he's also the guy who directed Super Mario Sunshine, one of the first story-heavy mainline Mario games. While looking him up, I also found this quote about his design philosophy:

Koizumi said:
If you think about games only as a thing that you interact with, you're missing the possibility of immersion. The inspirations that I tend to draw on for that all come from real life itself. Hiking on a mountain and seeing a cave and thinking about what's inside – it's that sense of wonder and excitement I want players to feel.
Seems like Mario will be in good hands from now on. I like this guy.
 

EarlTamm

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Ahhh, that explains it, then!

Yes...Yoshiaki Koizumi. I have heard his name a lot recently. Apparently he is Miyamoto's protege, but I do feel he brings something different to the table. Incidentally, he's also the guy who directed Super Mario Sunshine, one of the first story-heavy mainline Mario games. While looking him up, I also found this quote about his design philosophy:



Seems like Mario will be in good hands from now on. I like this guy.
Definitely, but I hope he will be able to direct a game next time rather than be a producer. It would definitely give him a lot more freedom. If I recall, the last game he directed was Super Mario Galaxy, which was over a decade ago!
 

TheBeastHimself

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I have an interesting question to ask you guys. If Nintendo for some reason wanted the full rights to Geno, do you think Square would be willing to comply?
 

thirsty-pocket

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I don't know enough about business to have an informed opinion but I doubt that. I do think they'd be willing to work with them again to make a new Mario RPG or license him out for Nintendo to use again though.
 

TheBeastHimself

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I'm just afraid that if Square and Nintendo lose their friendship again, Geno will just be gone once more. And nobody wants that.
 

thirsty-pocket

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I hate to be cynical but given the nature of Mario RPG characters, I think Geno being "gone once more" is an inevitabilty with or without Square's friendship. He might make an appearance in a theoretical sequel or remake to Mario RPG, but I could never see him becoming a series regular with the way Nintendo treats a majority of Mario characters.

But do we really need Geno to be a series regular? If you ask me, his story was wrapped up very nicely and having him come back repeatedly would kind of cheapen the significance of the character imo... I feel this exact way about Rosalina. The conservatory was supposed to only pass the Mushroom Kingdom every 100 years, because Rosalina travels the universe creating new galaxies everywhere she goes. She's essentially the Mario universes' "God" ...but now she's just kind of a regular that sticks around for no purpose.
 

Teeb147

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I'm just afraid that if Square and Nintendo lose their friendship again, Geno will just be gone once more. And nobody wants that.
Why would that happen? Things are fine, cloud made it in from the get-go, and my guess is we could get both another SE rep as well as Geno. might seem like pushing it to some, but I think it's pretty possible

Also, the rights could go any way, I think, it just depends what Nintendo's willing to do to get them.
 
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Duck$mash

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I feel that when it comes to Mario Party or Mario Cart, cannon doesn't really have to play a big deal. It'd be neat to see Geno and Mallow show up in Mario Party. I think they'd fit really well, especially Mallow.

It would be sweet to see Rosalina in Geo's reveal trailer, but they also need to include Mario, Peach and Bowser, and maybe even put Mallow in there to show off the whole team. He'll more than likely be an assist trophy anyways. <3
 
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NeonBorealis

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Browsing through the gallery of know your meme, I came across this masterpiece:


This is a reality that needs to happen.
 

Teeb147

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I actually haven't looked much for Geno art. I bet there's some good stuff out there, but I'd like for some more of them to take liberties, maybe with some cooler capes than just the default blue, or beyond :)
 

FalconFire93

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Browsing through the gallery of know your meme, I came across this masterpiece:


This is a reality that needs to happen.
Geno: Sorry, Mario, but it’s my time to shine now *blank expression as he throws the Blue Koopa Shell*


That came off a bit creepy now that I think about it... :lol:
 

EricTheGamerman

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You know, I'd love to see this thread come to eclipse the original Brawl thread. I know it's pretty unlikely considering how far removed from that we are, and we only have two months til release with comparatively little information to even discuss until Sakurai decides that it's time for another Smash Direct, but it'd just be a really nice moment to see the support thread reach a comparable length.

I mean if Isaac and Shantae can pass 10,000 replys, at the very least we can match that before release.
 

thirsty-pocket

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Not to mention if i'm not mistaken, the wait for Brawl after it's initial announcement was MUCH longer than Smash Ultimate.
Heck, I believe Brawl speculation predated it's official reveal, from back when the Wii was still called "The Nintendo Revolution"
 

NotTabuu

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Now, I am a person that loves almost any possible pick, but if there are two characters I highly support they are Geno and Shadow.
GO PUPPET BOI
SHOW THEM AUTHORITY

(You may consider me a Geno supporter)
 
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